Jeri

Canada does not have as tight restrictions on importation the US does. If you watch, European varieties often appear in Canada about the same time they are introduced in Europe. Hortico, in particular, frequently offers new European varieties as early as the European introducers do. This might well be considering whether the less strict Canadian import regulations might permit some of the newer discovered pests entry to the US through Canada. With the damage this pest has already done in Europe, it doesn't matter whose name is on the "administration". You WANT that kind of diligence if it means we're spared that pest. Kim

As someone who is by nature impatient of authority, I am inclined to bemoan anything that impedes the exchange of rare varieties.

But I live in a county where agriculture is a vital industry, and where the recent arrival of the Asian Citrus Psyllid is an impending disaster.

Sometimes, precautions make sense.

Germany is already rejecting material from the US out of fear of RRD. We can't import from countries we've been able to import from for many decades, because they have the Chinese Beetle. It destroys some crops and many ornamentals, roses for one. I'll tell you, I've reached the point where if what I want isn't already right here, I shall do without it. It would kill me to be the one who imported RRD or Chili Thrips. Kim

Re Canada, I too received this message from Pickering. The odd thing, however, is that Palatine and Hortico continue to ship to customers in the U.S., at least so far.

Cliff

Heirloom has 'Summer Wine' and 'Flower Girl' both on my list for next spring to order. I am glad to know Heirloom is doing well. Thanks for the comment.

I appreciate that Cliff, but as far as I'm concerned, Heirloom/Errloom is never gonna get another dime from me, what with the cavalier attitude they showed me in response to the problems I had with their product and service. You can't always recover a customer that you have repeatedly failed to satisfy, and that is that.

*** So very true.
I'm glad that, at present, I have plenty of new things to try out. There's really only one thing I want -- and if I don't get it I probably won't die of disappointment.

"You can't always recover a customer that you have repeatedly failed to satisfy, and that is that."

*** Yes, it is.
Heirloom "fooled me" over and over again, with mis-labeled plants and rude, rude "customer service."
They may, indeed, be better, now, but LUCKY ME -- I don't need them.

Jeri

For any of you who still can muster even a faint glimmer of hope that redemption is possible, I encourage you to check the current Heirloom Roses site. They're listing a boatload of brand new introductions from the recently closed EuroDesert Nursery. Many (if not most) of new varieties were imported by EuroDesert, and are rare in the U.S. Most, but not all, of them are modern roses -- there are, however, a few choice OGRs that may be of interest to more gardeners than just myself.

Jeri

Jax's "analogy" wasn't written in terms that made it perfectly clear that it was just an analogy, it was made to sound as if Jeri and I actually said specific things, which we did not.

I will rephrase my comment: the experiences I had with Heirloom from 12 years ago were severe enough that it no longer matters to me what their service and product is like now. The "service" I got back then was so insulting and showed a complete lack of respect for the customer that no amount of coaxing would convince me to "try them again". I received idiotic suggestions from conspicuously ill-trained staff that made Jerry Baker appear positively sage! I am not saying that I think Cliff's comment is in any way inaccurate or untrue, nor do I care to suggest that anyone else avoid buying from them, but I myself will not ever buy from that nursery again. They did not earn my respect, and they had the highest error rate of any nursery I bought from, in terms of selling correctly labeled plants. I should also point out that several of the most conspicuously virused plants I ever acquired came from them, which I find inexcusable when viewed in context of their policy on virus. Yes, yes....I'm sure they have addressed all of these issues, but I just don't care. They don't get any more chances, and that is that.

Melissa

I didn't think it was all that abstract, but -- OWELL.

Jeri :-)

To translate jax's analogy, he is saying that if you refuse to purchase from a vendor because it has "done you wrong" in the past, that's analogous to saying that if it was perfect in the past, you should continue to purchase from it, regardless of its present behavior. The point being, how a company is now is what's important.

I figure -- rose vendors are run and staffed by people, and people are pretty imperfect. I sort of expect all of them to make mistakes. The Good Lord Knows -- WE sure do.

I think, when they disappoint us, there's an opportunity there to see how they deal with it. And most of them, in my experience, are willing to go an extra mile to "make it right."

I did learn early on not to make the mistake of idly telling a vendor that a plant died. Standing in Sequoia Nursery, I made the mistake of remembering that I needed a new 'Sweet Chariot' to replace one that had died.

Despite my vigorous protests that it had died through my own inattention to watering -- neither Carolyn or Mr. Moore would allow us to leave without TWO new plants of 'Sweet Chariot,' for which they would not accept payment. THAT was embarrassing!

Jeri

Jimd

You mean Mermaid ISN'T thornless? "William" from J&P Customer Service (the acolyte) certainly thought so because J&P's "rose experts" proclaimed it so. Kim

Ms. Jennings and Mr. Barden, let's get real. Regardless of how you two now choose to recast your words or mine -- or of how silly you may think you aren't and I am, Jeri -- the fact is that you are determined to steadfastly maintain a highly negative opinion of Heirloom Roses forevermore. Would you agree with that, Jeri, or are those still more words I'm forcing into others' mouths?

By posting negative comments here, you are discouraging (at least tacitly) as many people as you possibly can from purchasing plants from a vendor that apparently did you great wrong at some point in the distant past (more than a decade ago in Paul's case). I understand that it is of NO relevance to either of you that the parties who so aggrieved you all those years ago are now long gone. If the operation carries the name "Heirloom Roses" it's got your implacable seal of disapproval -- then, now, and umpteen years from now. In your views, case closed. And that is (as Paul stated so emphatically above) THAT. Got it.

I can't believe that it's only my meager purchases that are keeping Heirloom afloat. Might there be others here who have purchased from Heirloom sometime within the current decade, AND who are actually satisfied customers? In recent months on these forums, we've bemoaned the steady loss of vendors. Small wonder so many have bitten the dust. If one changes course, makes radical management/staffing changes, strives diligently to improve service, enhances inventory, etc. -- and it all adds up to a big fat ZERO due to the dissemination of carefully nurtured ancient grievances, vague comparisons to Michigan Bulb, etc., then what's the use?

All the foregoing is the exercise of personal opinion. I neither seek nor expect agreement from anyone. I am, however, going now to seek the morning's first cup of coffee. (Note to self: Coffee BEFORE Gardenweb.)

I will check out Heirloom's new inventory. I got some good looking plants from them earlier this year. No problems whatsoever.

I think it's nice that people want to be a good customer as much as they want good customer service and good products. It's a mutual exchange.

I'm going to have to learn to graft I think, especially if my sources of multiflora grafted plants disappear. My Hortico order arrived last night, though. Beautiful plants as far as I can tell.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly

It is true their plants were small and expensive -- but at least they sent them in a timely manner and before it got too hot here for them to survive, which has not been my experience with some other vendors, even when I expressly ordered early.

Reports from friends who visited them regularly at that time were that Heirloom didn't label the individual flats. They placed the name of the variety on the shelf the flat was placed on. When flats were moved, often the names were not, resulting in some serious misidentifications. Fortunately, that practice was corrected, but it took some time for them to admit the errors and fix them. Kim

I have not been actively replacing roses for several years. This spring year I decided late that it was time to become active again. In the past Pickering always shipped to me in early April which is too early, and it was impossible to make an order in May.

I placed my order for about twenty plants a couple of weeks ago and it will be delivered this week. The late supply from Pickering has allowed me to prepare my garden and I am looking forward to sticking the roses in as soon as they arrive. I'm getting pretty excited.