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| First of all, may I wish you all a great Thanksgiving!
Perhaps I have too much time on my hands this week:), but looking at the new DA catalog over the last few week-ends, I've noticed some interesting observations. I suppose being a big fan of Mr. Austin, I'm very intrigued by his opinions on his creations. First of all, Brother Cadfael and Charles Darwin have lost their asterisks. The asterisks mean that they are more recommended than other choices in the catalog. Brother Cadfael is now more recommended for cooler parts of the country in the description. Geoff Hamilton, which I want to order, has been moved to the supplemental roses section. A section it seems, roses that have been iffy get put in. Also, Summer Song and William Morris are not currently available in the US. The biggest surprise though, is that Othello has been brought back to the main selection part of the catalog and with an asterisk, no less. So there you have it! Just thought I would bring this all up since I've been lounging around the house, pondering on all the roses I want for next spring. Good luck with all your choices!
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Follow-Up Postings:
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| In my cool/dry SoCal garden, Othello was a very tall, upright grower. So prickly was it that it was exiled to the lowest corner of the garden, where we didn't have to interact with it too often. Like many of the Austin roses, in our no-chill climate, it perched its blooms at the very very top of the plant. The blooms were huge, magnificent, fragrant things. It may be far better in climates where some winter chill gives it a rest, but 'Othello' is Jeri |
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- Posted by le_jardin_of_roses zone 10 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 12:59
| Jeri, you are right that in SoCal we have to be careful with the DA's. They can become out of control and some only bloom on top if not pegged, or controlled somehow. Then there are the ones that need winter chill to bloom well, as you have often mentioned. It has been fun hearing of your adventures with these "English Roses", since you were a pioneer in trying them before they became mainstream. I think you call many of them "jolly green giants that have scant blooms". Fortunately, there are some DA's that really shine in our part of the world, like that gorgeous thing called Golden Celebration. |
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| I don't know why they'd tout 'Othello.' As best I recall, nobody here has ever recommended it. For me it it had a troublesome growth habit and was relatively unproductive. |
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| You're right, Juliet Golden Celebration may not be perfect everywhere, but it's a winner here, and we'd never give it up. Another good Austin for me is Prospero, at the other end of the size-scale. Jeri |
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- Posted by amateurosegrower Zone 6 or 7 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 16:02
| Does anyone here have any experience with Molineux? I am particularly interested to know if it holds its color well in full sun. My flower bed has zero shade all day long. And I am finding out that many of the roses I would like to order will fade fast and not hold their color well at all. I am hoping that Molineux is an exception. |
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- Posted by rosecorgis Z9 NorCal (My Page) on Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 16:25
| I grow Molineaux in full sun - baking 90-100 degree summer sun. It fades some, but is still very yellow. It is a bloom machine and the heat doesn't make it stop blooming. I'd highly recommend it. Mine is only 1 yr old, about 4 ft tall and grafted. The only Austin I have that's doing as well in the full sun is Carding Mill, an apricot. It fades a little but still shows color. In very, very hot sun (over 105) it starts turning pink. In the 90's, it stayed apricot. My Charlotte (right next to both of those) faded so much it looked white next to them and my Jude the Obscure turned a very ugly color in the heat (but it's fabulous now that it's cooled down). Debbie |
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| Compte de Champagne has lost its asterisk and regained it twice in the last few years and Snowgoose has also been promoted.I do love CdeC even though the blooms shatter quite quickly. |
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- Posted by mendocino_rose z8 N CA. (My Page) on Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 17:50
| It would be neat if someone from Austin would explain how the asterisk process happens. I wonder if any of it has to do with feedback. At least they're not promoting every single rose as absolutely perfect all the time. |
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| I think a LOT of it has to do with feedback. DA aggressively markets roses in widely disparate places having wildly different growing conditions -- small wonder, then, that those asterisks fly all over the place and back again. The initial hype (although unstated) is always about how the newly minted rose performs in the British Isles. But even that can sometimes prove spurious (anyone remember the deafening fanfare over the original 'William Shakespeare'?) I must have been among the first in North America to grow the once highly touted 'Cressida' -- rapturously lovely flower, but unbelievably monstrous growth habit in my zone. A number of other DAs also failed to deliver on their promise once they were given a place in my garden. Given the fact that he keeps pumping them out at an impressive rate, DA has undoubtedly produced a few widely adaptable roses that will meet the test of time. In the meantime, space is limited & there are too many tried & true gems out there that I've not yet had the pleasure of growing . . . |
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| I bet they keep 'Othello' in their sales list because it is the closest to "red" (crimson) and people call and ask for a "red" rose, which in the US means crimson (like the stripes in the US flag) so they keep selling it... I have 'William Morris'. It is somewhat stingy with blooms and has stellar disease resistance. The parent 'Abraham Darby' is a serious ruster here but WM is clean, clean, clean (no spray). It's also very photogenic, and has a lot less fragrance than Abe.
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| Maybe the asterisks simply have to do with how much overstock they have? |
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| Cynic! Jeri |
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| I wonder whether David Austin is trying to hybridize roses that do well in the Mid-Atlantic...for a no spray situation. I've tried about 35 different cultivars with only marginal success. Perhaps they still need more time. Robert |
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- Posted by littlesmokie Portland z8 (My Page) on Sat, Nov 28, 09 at 18:11
| veilchen-I thought the same thing. As I was looking through the recommended roses, I was sure it must have to do with how many bushes they have to sell... Is that cynical? I don't think so, Austin is a master marketer :) Dawn |
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| Have to admit that DA is indeed a master at marketing. Not unlike the dear departed Liberace, criticism rolls right off his back as he sobs all the way to the bank. Wondering which heritage DA varieties they'll be growing in 2109 . . . |
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| Windeaux, I do believe that they will still be growing some of them. Not all of his roses are winners but he has produced some wonderful ones, starting all the way back with Constance Spry. Sometimes we look back at the great rose breeders of the 19th century such as Vibert. We lament that many of their once-famous roses have disappeared. Perhaps we have indeed lost some gems. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that the roses that have been lost were simply their inferior roses, and that a process of natural selection has taken place. This does not mean that we should not continue to save as many as we can. We have so many niches in which to grow roses. We need as wide a selection as possible to fit those varied growing conditions. Rosefolly |
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- Posted by le_jardin_of_roses zone 10 (My Page) on Mon, Nov 30, 09 at 11:53
| Forgot to add that curiously, Sharifa Asma lost it's asterisk and Charles Rennie Mackintosh is now in the supplemental section. Interesting, because in his book, 'The English Roses', he speaks highly of CRM and also about The Countryman, but The Countryman has never really taken off, I think. And now, after years of Jubilee Celebration being offered by J&P exclusively, DA USA is now offering it. J&P offered it own-root. It has glorious flowers. The bush, not so glorious. More runty, I'd say. Now it can be gotten on Huey, if you'd prefer.
Juliet |
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| FWIW, Charles Rennie Macintosh is a wonderful rose to grow where summers are hot. Most roses falter when the temperatures soar, but CRM keeps on blooming through the heat. R |
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| FWIW, Charles Rennie Macintosh is a wonderful rose to grow where summers are hot. *** And a less-desirable one where summers are cool. Jeri |
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| Robert, Glad to see your comment, as I am in VA too. I suppose it can't be easy to grow roses in the "challenging" hot and humid southeast. In the 2014 David Austin catalog, I see at least two that should do well in our area: Princess Alexandra of Kent and Lichfield Angel. I would like to try both. Do you have either of those? |
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- Posted by poorbutroserich Nashville 7a (My Page) on Thu, Oct 16, 14 at 20:44
| Mountie, I have a bunch of recently acquired Austins ($10 overstock summer sale) so they are relatively new but had been grown on from bare roots in the nursery and were in 3G pots. Carding Mill is a STUNNER. So is Boscobel! Ambridge Rose, Charlotte, Golden Celebration, Abe Darby, Grace, Bishop's Castle, Munstead Wood, Heritage, Darcy Bussell, Mary Rose and Jude the O all do well here. It just depends on your expectations and how much you are willing to tolerate. Essentially mine flower like crazy, lose lots of leaves, re-foliate in 3 weeks, bloom in two-three more and so it goes. I'm willing to deal with that. I don't mind roses with a defoliation cycle as I have a jumbled garden with stuff filling in. Jubilee Celebration, Princess Alexandra of Kent and Princess Anne are not like the above. They seem to be slower to repeat with about the same amount of leaf drop. I've often wanted to try Lichfield Angel but I've heard terrible things about it here. It's gorgeous in England… Best way to find out is to try! Susan |
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| poorbutroserich, Thank you for your message. I'd love to hear more about Ambridge Rose sometime! : ) |
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| Mountie, I have been growing Ambridge for at least 13 years if not longer. It stays about 3-4 feet tall and about 3 feet wide. Puts out a beautiful first flush and then is sproadic the rest of the summer. Smells like cherry sugar free bubble gum if you ask me. I am not wild about the sent but others seem to love it. I think it needs a bit more fertilizer than other DA roses. I am going to shovel prune mine this year. It is not on its own root and the rootstock is starting to take over. I won't be replanting it in favor of the newer DA roses that rebloom more frequently in our heat. |
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