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| I have a couple of roses that came with the caveat " good rose cultivation is required for this rose to give of its best". What on earth is good rose cultivation? I deadhead, prune when it is time to prune, feed the roses with manure or whatever is required per soil tests, or the instructions on the package, water, mulch, and spray with water unless the pests are being peskier than usual, then I use a little insecticidal soap. Is this good rose cultivation or are these articles and supplier recommendations referring to something else? Lynn |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 13:31
| Yes - what you are doing is "good rose cultivation". My personal opinion is that that phrase is put on the roses to basically function as a disclaimer - "if you kill it, it is not our fault". Of course, over the years the ARS and many others have spread the word that you have to do all sorts of ridiculous & unnecessary things to your roses, like constantly spraying them with poisons, picking up each leaf as it falls, not letting any other plant grow within 6 feet of it, etc. etc. That is NOT good rose cultivation! Jackie |
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| But also -- while many many roses are, as Jackie says -- fine and dandy without all that, in conditions suited to them . . . There are undeniably SOME roses that, no matter what you do, rust at the drop of a hat, and/or mildew, and produce blooms that don't open much of the time. Or are so lacking in vigor that they grow indifferently, or bloom poorly. If I were going to sell such roses, I think I'd put that "disclaimer" on the package. Rose fails to satisfy? Customer's fault! Customer didn't give the thing "good rose cultivation." Jeri |
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| As everyone has said there are some roses that are just weaklings. They require super TLC so get them to grow and/or bloom. IF you want to do all that's necessary to keep them going then fine, if not then the seller won't be responsible for their lack of performance. The thing is that you (or the seller) won't know which those are in your garden until you try to grow them. Although there are some we can tell you are pretty much crappy everywhere, lol! |
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| My experience is, those which require "good cultivation" are those which are not the best of plants and require more "high culture", meaning providing them the best of everything to flourish. For those enjoying a challenge, they can be some of the more "rewarding" garden subjects, but for those who want their rewards to not require exceptional efforts, they can be more appropriately termed, "garden prima donas". It all comes down to your definitions, desires, and how much you desire to be held hostage by a demanding plant. Only YOU can make that decision. Whatever you choose is valid for you. Kim |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9/SZ11 -Las Vegas, N (My Page) on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 17:20
| My " needs good cultivation....." is Reine des Violettes. I am throwing the 1 Marie Pavie, grafted on multiflora...., into that bag, because while it performs almost effortlessly for some; she could be a challenge here. I am in that trial and error phase, and subsequently, M.P.has been placed in an area that receives morning sun, and the area will get a little more soil sulfur than most of my planting areas. I have read many rose growers post that there is a trial and error process, and through that among other ways of receiving knowledge, they obtain the wisdom of "knowing". I am likely a young ( to OGR's), foolish, rose grower to a certain degree. I have avoided major disasters due to the guidance presented on this forum and books... thank goodness!! But like teenagers, I am still playing around, just a bit, with potential pitfalls and hopefully learning. Lynn |
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| I've heard that phrase used for some hybrid perpetuals, the rationale given being that they are large plants with big flowers that need extra water and fertilizer to give of their best. Since I don't grow HP's I don't know from personal experience whether this is indeed true. Ingrid |
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| Location! Unlike Lynn's experience, for me, although only a once bloomer here, my RdV is pretty effortless. Yes, she spots a little but never that bad and her spring flush is magnificent! She requires only minimal spring pruning and gets the exact same fertilizer and water that all the roses in the bed get. No more, no less. This is a perfect example of what I meant about having to try a rose in your garden before knowing how it will do for you. |
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- Posted by poorbutroserich none (My Page) on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 19:23
| I love the Primas! Kim knows how much I love those lavender/tan and crazy LeGrice roses because he loves em too..LOL. I have Tom Brown and I just absolutely love this rose. It didn't do much all year (2 blooms?) but grew well and really greened up in cooler weather. I sure wouldn't want a garden of these, but in a pot it's easy to give him extra care. I also have Grey Dawn which is not much of a bloomer but has really put on some growth and steadily growing. When it does bloom it's gorgeous. I wouldn't consider Marie Pavie needing high culture but RdV might...how do HP's do in your climate? Someday perhaps Tom Brown will look like this: |
Here is a link that might be useful: Tom Brown at HMF
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9/SZ11 -Las Vegas, N (My Page) on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 20:23
| poorbutroserich, I live in "modern rose world" rarely seeing many exceptions, anywhere. There was a member of the local rose society, and in her garden, she had grown and listed 21 OGR's, 4 of them were hybrid perpetuals. That list is the only concise point of reference I have for any Hybrid Perpetuals or OGR's here. Additionally, members of this forum, one who gardens in Phoenix, which is hotter than here, a member from a hotter section of Las Vegas, and Ingrid have been OGR resources too. Ingrid's recommendations have been spot on, but I am surmising from her post that she avoids Hybrid Perpetuals. They have all provided input regarding a few or one rose variety; which I appreciate. I believe that jaspermplants grows a Hybrid Perpetual or 2?? My concern with Marie Pavie is the reported preference for acidic soil; mine is alkaline, a 7.6 -7.8 pH. I have also read that this rose "really" does not care for high temperatures either. While it is fairly mild weather most of the year, our summers are scorchers. Lynn |
This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 21:29
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| I wouldn't hold your breath, Susan. That Tom Brown is being grown in Russia where there are primarily only budded plants available. In order to comply with the current size requirement for imports (NOTHING over 10mm at the thickest point), plants had to be sent from The Netherlands to France to the Hook's nursery to be rooted so they could come into the US. I doubt the person on HMF went to that trouble when obtaining a stronger, more durable budded plant of the variety was availble much more easily. TB CAN be breath taking. I had one of them just two weeks ago on my ten inch own rooter. IF it lives long enough and "graces" me with appropriate growth, I will bud that dawg next year. The Fortuniana is already slated for wrapping... Kim |
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| Lynn, you could try a soil acidifier like the Hi-Yield stuff I use on roses grafted on multiflora, and I've had really good results with it. It contains sulfur, but also iron, nitrogen, and maybe a few trace elements (can't remember). Once a season I use granular fertilizer touted for acid loving plants on all the roses grafted on multiflora, plus roses like hybrid musks which tend to get chlorotic in alkaline soil. Diane |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9/SZ11 -Las Vegas, N (My Page) on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 22:45
| Hi Diane, I purchased the Hi-Yield soil acidifier you recommended; if only I can figure out what I did with it. A local nursery carries a liquid version. I also purchased a liquid fertilizer for acid loving plants as some of the new roses cannot receive anything but weak water soluble fertilizer right now. My Marie Pavie will receive the granular food for acid loving plants once it has its first blooms. I am crossing my fingers with both of these roses; especially Marie Pavie; it is near the front porch, and I want to experience that wafting fragrance so many have referred to. Lynn |
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