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| I had to sneak another peek at the cuttings on the back porch today, just to see how they were coming along. The one Mons Tillier I use as a way of telling how the others are doing popped out of the soil with these babies! I did a happy jig to commemorate the event. I then proceeded to check another random MT, which did not show quite the extensive root growth as this one. But it still had callus and looks great. I pulled it out of the soil instead of allowing the soil to come with the rose and fall away when I turned it upside down. I realized I may have inadvertently pulled roots off of the callus. I have almost 8 cuttings of MT though so I wasn't as panicked. I also checked a 'Maggie' which showed some callusing, but one of the two strikings I had made along the bud eye was blackened and closed off so only one side had a very minimal amount of callouses. I am hopeful though because this one is already attempting to throw little baby sized basals. The MT in the picture may be further along than the others though because I watered it with Superthrive a week ago when I checked it. As far as I know, Superthrive is not useful for much else than pushing roots on cuttings. Who knows. Another happy surprise was that I received 'Baboosic Rose' suckers from Diane today! Imagine my surprise when I opened the box and there were three huge bareroot plants with roots systems in tow. Quite a surprise when I have only received cuttings so far. The picture on the right is of the three suckers potted up. They fought me the whole way but I finally wrangled them into submission. The thorns on that rose are bloodthirsty! I am now eagerly awaiting my package from Vintage. The pleasant weather has definitely revitalized my love of working outside. Josh |
This post was edited by JoshTx on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 21:37
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Josh, dear, QUIT CHECKING THE ROOTS!!YOU'RE GONNA KILL THEM!!! Okay, now that's out of my system.... Congratulations--you're really a cutting-rooting master! Yes, please include an Allen Cemetery China for me next spring, thank you so kindly for asking. |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 18:06
| Hooray for roots. If you can resist, it's better not to peek. Wait for the plant to grow a little and say hey, look at me! I'm growing on my roots! I'm happy for you. The kind of day rose folks love. |
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| Bluegirl, I was going to say the same thing to Josh, lol! Except it was going to be, "JOSH! (Si!) QUIT PULLING THE DANG PLANTS OUT!!! |
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| Boy, you like to press your luck, Josh! Every time I have tried to pull one up like that I ended up BREAKING OFF THE ROOTS! They look marvelous though. Good luck and leave them be, lol! |
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| Meant to add that if you use clear plastic cups to root them in you don't have to pull them out to check for roots. You'll be able to see them through the sides of the cups. |
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- Posted by ratdogheads 5b NH (My Page) on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 19:33
| Oh wow - look at my babies way down there in Texas! They are certainly in good company :) |
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| Seil's right. We use clear plastic cups, and drill holes in the bottom. We can look all the way around, and see what the lovely little roots are doing. We got them at Sam's Club, because we wanted transparent, and slightly soft -- bendy -- and a good size. They were cheap, cheap, cheap -- and we use them over and over, with a good wash in-between. Jeri |
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| Ogrose, Seil, Kitty, and Bluegirl, You guys have me laughing so hard! Haha. I will leave them be, I promise! I was compelled to check on them today because I noticed through the baggies that some of the leaves on some of them had turned black and fallen off. I was worried the cuttings were rotting. All of the fallen leaves, though, where ones which weren't exposed to sunlight and so I suppose the little guys cannabalized them. I'll be good from now on! Seil and Jeri, I took a page from y'all's book and did indeed use clear plastic cups so I could see roots through the side! I just wasn't sure if the cuttings were rooting properly yet so I snuck a look. I will leave them be now that I am convinced all systems are (for now) go. Jeri, that's a great idea to reuse them! I didn't even think about that. Ratdogheads, Thank you again for your generosity! I have high hopes for the little guys! And they are definitely getting the star treatment - I hand mixed their soil so that it was ideal for them. I'm super excited to see how they do! Josh |
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| I've reused cups 3 or 4 times before they've finally broken and are unusable. I get my at Costco and they are cheap for a big bag of the 16oz cups. You just have to be a little careful when you poke the hole in the bottom that you don't crack them. And make sure the hole is opened up well. I had some that I had to repoke while there was a plant in them because the hole managed to seal itself back up and the cup wouldn't drain properly. I use a black sharpie to write the name of the plant on the side then just scratch it out and write the new plant name when I reuse it. Works great! |
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 15:23
| Josh, if you don't stop uprooting those little cuttings to peer at the roots you are going to give me a heart attack! You really are risking killing them outright each time you do that. I know others already told you that, and you promised not to do it anymore, but I seem to recall that you promised that before - please just do me a favor and if you do it in the future, don't tell us about it - you may be magic, but it could give others who read your post the wrong idea that this is a good idea. End of lecture. Meanwhile, congrats on all of the rooting, and please leave the poor things alone now! Jackie |
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| Jackie, I know it was bad form to unearth them, but I very carefully did so as to not harm them. As this is my first time rooting cuttings I was quite childishly curious about the whole thing. It would appear that I still have not grown out of my "I'm invincible" phase. :-) Disclaimer: Josh |
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| I would also like to respectfully inquire to you all Seil, Jackie, Ogrose, Jeri, and Bluegirl: Why does unearthing a cutting to see progress and then recovering a cutting pose a risk to its success? The way I did it was I pushed all of the dirt out of the cup like I was un-potting them, let the soil fall away from the cuttings, and then re-potted the cuttings gently and watered them in. I ask because Mr. Rupert champions the "burrito method" in which cuttings are exposed to air and develop calluses without a soil medium. So does exposing the callus to air pose a risk to the cuttings? Or is it the potential for breaking off callus or roots? I hope I do not come across as argumentative. I am curious about the difference between the two methods. Josh |
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| I should also say -- To make the holes, DH uses an electric drill. He stacks maybe a half-dozen cups and drills all of them in one go. It saves time, and the stack is more stable. The cups we use (and it's the reason we went for the Sam's Club ones) are rather flexible -- so they don't tend to crack when they're drilled. Jeri |
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| Well, truthfully, careful checking like that is pretty safe. My unsupported observation is that pulling a cutting at the stage where the roots are juuusssttt evolving from the callus (about the time I get excited enough to wiggle them a little) can often injure the cutting enough so that it rots. And pulling one that has those 1/4"-1/2" roots--it seems those are really brittle & shatter easily. But maybe cuttings I've done that to were marginal anyway. Now we know you can root Popsicle sticks & are very careful. Check away! (since you're gonna do it anyhow--yes? lol) |
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| No! Do not keep checking to see how fast/ how many are rooting. Check one to see if it is rooting. Consider it a sacrificial victim to curiosity and then leave them alone until you see leaf growth or roots. To answer your question as to why: My best guess is that you risk broken roots if the soil is firmed too well when replanted or conversely spaces where the soil does not contact the roots and the roots dry out if the soil is not firmed enough. An unrooted cutting is a stick, a cylinder, and would be fairly easy to replant. A callused or rooting cutting is a complex jaggedy mass, almost impossible to to get the right soil contact at every point. Cath |
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| Bluegirl, So the risk lies more in physically damaging the roots than the actual momentary exposure? That makes sense. And while I now have a (well-deserved) reputation as a loose cannon, I think going forward I won't need to check cuttings. This being my first time I was honestly worried I had messed it all up! 'R. Moschata' and 'Allen Cemetery China,' my latest cuttings, are disturbance free. Cath, Actually, that's exactly what I did. I was using a 'Mons Tillier' cutting as a sacrificial standard for the other cuttings. Even though I have checked it twice, it has continued to grow roots. The tricky thing though is that it can't tell me about how 'Lamarque' 'Maggie' or 'G. Nabonnand' are doing, so I had to check them as well. I see the reasoning behind how soil contact cannot be replicated even in the best of circumstances, and agree that it would be unwise to risk the death of a viable cutting that would have otherwise survived. Josh |
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| I'm not saying that your investigations would necessarily kill a rooted cutting, but we should keep in mind that it's more than just the roots that the plant requires to absorb water, but the microscopic root hairs that the roots are covered with. Root hairs are single celled outgrowths that increase the surface area of the root to increase absorption. Whenever you handle the roots, no matter how gently, you are breaking off root hairs that the plant then has to regrow. Nice job with the cuttings by the way! It takes a lot of skill to get them to this point. |
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| That is an excellent point, about the microscopic root hairs. Now that you point it out I do recall studying them under the microscope--amazing differentiation. Josh, now I'm gonna get silly. Have you seen those pseudo-German signs warning not to touch? I had a paraphrase rattling around in my head all day, like: "Achtung!!! Her Josh: Der rosenkinder ist nicht ver gerfingerpoken nur mittengraben fur rootenschecken! Pullinkinder vill resulten en brakenrooten un deiencuttin!!---MIT hairenpullen und tiersencryen!! UND, sie vill haben fingerwagen und toldsiesooen on rosenforum!!!!..." |
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| LOL! Good one, bluegirl! And that's what I like about you, Josh, that mind is always thinking, enquiring, testing... |
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| Bluegirl, That is hilarious! Cath |
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| Bluegirl, I died laughing. That was so excellent haha. Josh |
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| harhar--thanks! *bow*--but not too original. I looked for the original sheet to post, but couldn't find it. It goes on about how the machine will blow up, "mit SPITZENSPARKEN!!!" |
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| Josh, I left something out in the last post: Even after you see root growth and/or new leaf growth, let the cuttings sit for 2-4 weeks (without checking). You should wait until the new roots permeate the soil so that the root ball can be tapped out of the pot intact. An intact root ball protects most of the roots from damage. This waiting also gives the infant plant a chance to build up biomass so that it is able to replace roots lost in the process. I would not peek until I intended to transplant the cutting. Jeri says that she waits until the roots peek out of the drainage holes. I cannot claim this degree of self control. Although I have rooted cuttings of many types of plants both woody and herbaceous, I had never rooted roses (except for layers and suckers) until this past summer. My hat's off to you for having successfully rooted cuttings so early in your gardening career. If we were harsh with you, it is only because we have all peeked, lost treasured and otherwise viable cuttings, been there, done that and nobody needs that T shirt. Cath |
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| Cath41, Seil posted a picture of a rooted cutting in a clear plastic cup that showed roots all throughout the soil. I believe that's what I'll wait for before I transplant them to one gallons. Right now the only visible roots are those near the bottom of the cups. I don't see any feeder roots just yet. And I don't think y'all were harsh at all. Sometimes my inquisitiveness gets the best of me. I appreciate the reality check! Ogrose, All that thinking, inquirinq, and testing can get me in trouble! I appreciate the compliment though :-) Josh |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Sat, Nov 23, 13 at 1:43
| I am thinking that it is hard work for them to grow roots on what little is available in that bit of stem and if the leaves have fallen off, even harder. Anything that gets broken off is harder to replace. Besides, it's like being in the hospital where no one wants to be disturbed all the time. Congratulations on your success. The first plant that rooted for me made me so happy. I didn't even know the name. I just knew it was old and I loved it. That plant turned out to be Pink Peace but I didn't find out for years because I would always skip over Pink Peace in the books thinking ' I know what Peace looks like and this isn't a pink version of it'. For a little while it was my special rose. |
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