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Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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Posted by campanula UK Cambridge (My Page) on Wed, Nov 18, 09 at 18:07
| I have ordered 4 new roses but only after 6 weeks of many, many hours poring over catalogues, forums, writing lists, crossing out lists, rewriting them again and AGONISING. There are just far too many. If I had space (and money), would it be easier? How long does it take you. How do you decide? |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| I look at the catalog, look it up on helpmefind.com and ask here. I find people in similar growing situations to me are the most helpful but won't discount the opinion of anyone. I think for me, part of the fun of gardening is in the planning and the dreaming of what my garden will be. A wise gardener on this forum once told me that good gardens are always changing. I take that to mean that despite having a limited garden budget, some plants just don't do well in my garden. Even with the greatest reviews, I sometimes find a plant that others love and I just don't. (Fair Bianca, for example). Try to relax and enjoy and don't be too crushed if one you chose doesn't turn out quite what you expected. Give it away, trade it with another gardener or just take it out and try something else. Gardening should be enjoyable, not a burden. BTW, what roses did you finally decide on? |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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After wasting well more than a hundred dollars on roses that I got rid of after planting them I developed a system that is most likely to make me happy with a newly purchased rose. The roses that I've been most happy with, after they were planted in my garden, were the roses that I had loved the longest. These include 'Mlle. Cecille Brunner' that my grandmother grew in her garden when I was a child, and white 'Lady Banks' which grew on a property that I visited in the 1980's, and which made me wildly ecstatic when it bloomed, and I loved it more than all the 40 modern H.T.s in that garden combined, and I've had a crush on the California form of 'Lamarque' since first seeing it growing on an arch in a nearby park in the 1990's. Those are my "must have" roses.
Then when I want to buy more I choose first a color of rose that I would love, and then a class. Then I ask on this forum of its health in my region. My three favorite rose classes are Tea, Noisette and Alba. Because most of the Tea roses I already have are white and/or light pink, or light yellow, my next Tea rose would be 'Clementina Carbonieri' the most richly hued Tea rose. Ta da!
Lux. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| well, afraid my choice was not very brave as I went with sruff I am familiar with - 3 Austins (Jude, Pat Austin and Falstaff) and a climber, 'Meg' as I was seduced by the picture in Beales catalogue. My son though, had a clear idea in his head and chose Wild Edric in about 5 minutes - he's been 'infected' too. (garden mania) |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| I start with my highest priority. Lately, it’s been disease resistance. The black spot pressure around here makes BS hard to ignore. Every other gardening chore can wait until I’m ready; but miss a fungicide application and that rose can be naked for the rest of the summer, and I tired of it. Winter hardiness isn’t too much of an issue, there’s plenty to choose from that are hardy. So when I find a rose that strikes my fancy I will do some independent research most of it is on the garden forum. I only use info near my gardening zone here in Maryland (basically I’ll look at postings from New Jersey to Georgia and West to the Mississippi) If it performs there it probably will for me. Especially for most things except, maybe, winter hardiness. I don’t go so much by class as vigor, color, repeat and general ease of care, . That said some of my best roses are ones I got without a clue of what I was doing. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| It takes me forever to decide, but I really enjoy researching roses and making lists. I try to make disease resistance a priority, but it's hard when you see such sumptuous pictures. Shipping costs are high here, so I only buy from a few growers each year. Then I have to limit myself to their offerings, narrows it a bit. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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I just wanted a chance to post 'Meg'! :) Congratulations on choosing one of the very loveliest. Often, climbing Hybrid Teas are just too clunky in habit - heavy, inflexible canes and over-large, over-shiny foliage - for the more delicate blooms like 'Meg' and 'Lady Waterlow', but 'Meg' has a lovely balance, especially if you keep plenty of fresh, young growth developing. I also enjoy 'Wild Edric', a shorter Rugosa than most with a good, intense colour. After 35 years of planting and replanting, I'm choosing some roses for the second or third incarnation in this garden:) Maybe the only lesson I've learned (sort of) is to think of buying in combinations rather than single plants, and try to think of what other plants would look good in that combination. It is easier to fill your garden with a succession of 'combinations' than dotting roses around and then trying to link them. Best wishes
Jon |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Thanks to both Campanula (Suzan, right?) and Jon for this - I'll get Meg (assuming that repeat is decent). What a lovely picture, Jon, it really sells this rose. I saw Wild Edric at the Chelsea Show this year, a very nice rose, and, as Jon said, quite intensely colored. I think I might have posted a photo of it on my Chelsea thread number II here in May or June. Andrea |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Lux - your reason for loving Cecile Brunner rang a bell with me. My grandparents had the rose, and my grandfather wore the little buds in his buttonhole. That bush moved with my family several times after both those dear people died, and all of us still have warm thoughts about it. Jon - SO LOVELY... Campanula - I had thought that my method was to just go with Love At First Sight, but Lux's post made me realize that a visceral response to a rose goes beyond that and has a lot to do with fond memories. Practically speaking, I am pretty new to all this and have been making a number of classic newbie mistakes: I fall in love with roses I can't grow; I buy more roses than I have room for; I inadvertently ruin some of them; and I've ended up having to give some of them away. But, from what I have read on this forum, that makes me a Rose Gardener! Acknowledge that you, being human like the rest of us, will make mistakes, and ENJOY (but don't feel bad about agonizing over it all, because all of us do our share of THAT, too! Laura |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Well, Suzan, my initial decisions were tough and agonized like yours. Every square inch and every plant, color and size was "scrolled over" online endlessly. And lists were made on little notepad papers that I still have for sentimental reasons. After all, if I can't have a rose, I can at least have the thought of a rose ("I once thought about getting that one.") Over my almost three years of rose gardening sadly (for DH's bank account) many (I'd rather say 'some' but I'll be honest) are no longer here. So if I knew THEN what I know now, my decision process would be simple and easy. Teas, teas, teas. Sherry |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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- Posted by senko 6b ePA (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 20, 09 at 12:31
| I always have a hard time deciding too. I used this forum many times. Generally, I post to see what people think of a particular rose. That has been the most helpful for me. People are very honest here and give you good and bad things about a rose then you have to decide if that applies to your situation. I also have a set number: I know how many rose bush I can handle and at the end I stick with it. Good luck with your roses. It always comes to seeing in your garden for yourself. If it is not what you hoped, there is always next time. Journey to a wonderful garden is just as wonderful. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| I'm still trying to figure it out. I have NOOOOOOO self control. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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Now that I have a much smaller garden, I am hoping that choosing roses will be easier. Each one will have to tick all the boxes.
Look at what is important to you, scent, disease resistance, colour etc.
Perhaps, if you take this approach, it will at least shorten the list.
Daisy |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Campanula, I am happily doing the same, poring over catalogs and agonizing over combinations for hours. Then I take the process out into the garden. In past years, I know my neighbors thought I was crackers as I stood and stared at my beds, visualizing which roses would look and do best in each location. But my hedge is now close to 8 feet tall, so my "garden meditations" can be done more privately:) I am so glad you ordered Jude which is my favorite David Austin. Jude and Heritage (my very first Austin) gave me their last blooms just this past week despite the frosty mornings. It seems they are reluctant to part for winter, too: 
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RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| What Sherry said is also so true for me. I had to discard many roses since I had no clue that they wouldn't prosper in this garden that was new to me and which was uniquely hot and difficult for roses. I discovered that teas, some Bourbons, some Chinas and some Austins were best for me, and I try not to stray too far from that. Another thing I realized early on was that it was important to have a theme for the garden, some underlying concept that would unify the whole so that it was more than just an assemblage of plants. My color scheme fell into place by the simple stratagem of avoiding true reds, oranges and most apricots, all colors that do not thrill me. The rest all seem to live together happily. Ingrid |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Ingrid- I have the same color scheme with one exception. I love Tamora and it's the only DA I ever see at the local nursery. My mom has it and it's apricot colored. Mine, for some reason, is much more pink, with a peach tint to it. It seems to fit in with the other roses just fine :) |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| The first time, we went to the new ARE retail store in GA, which had been written up in the Atlanta paper. We had written ARE for a catalog before we went, and I had dug a bed which, we thought, would hold 6 roses. When we got to ARE, they of course did not have every single thing in stock. So some of my favorites were missing, and I was fretting over possible replacements and wondering whether we should wait for next season. But my wife said, let's just take six of the ones they have; they'll all be beautiful. So we left with SEVEN. ("Scarlet Moss" was just too cute.) Anyway, it's been like that ever since. I fret. For weeks. My wife eventually delivers an ultimatum: ok, today you will place the order. And I usually get about 20% more roses than I have space for, which for this group is rather restrained and suggests I am not a true rosomaniac. My current criteria in order: healthiness/suitability for my area, fragrance, size/habit, bloom form (in order: semi-double, single, double), color, .... I also like variety in everything: class/species, fragrances, habit, color. My preference for fragrance has led me to have quite a few white and near white roses (Alba semi-plena, Blanc Double de Coubert, Darlow's Enigma, Secret Garden Musk Climber; and New Dawn, Spice, Marie Pavie). Mike |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Companula, for those who live in zones 4 & 5, who are unable to even find our gardens under all the snow in the winter, agonizing over catalogs is our definition of winter gardening! What would we do without all those catalogs and all those rose choices? They keep us sane till spring comes! |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| First is the helpless indecision, fretting and moaning. Then finally just ordering the ones that are on the last sheet of paper when you finally decide you must just DO SOMETHING. Next comes the learned pleasure of shovel pruning and the active and eager weeding out of the garden all roses that didn't turn out the way you wanted. Then you order 3 for every available spot you have. You don't really need new shoes, do you? Then comes adding more beds in every patch of sunshine and ordering three times as many roses as you need, just in case, you understand. Extra bits of money are quickly dispatched to the favorite of your rose growers or maybe for new books describing more roses which you decide you must have. Your basement becomes a rose nursery. You learn to root cuttings. You want to breed your own roses. You rip out your garage and put in a green house. Helpless indecision becomes helpless addiction. Sorry to tell you this, but I thought you should know. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Regarding any extras you may find, repeat after me: "Oh heck, I'll find room for them somewhere!" |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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Well, there is a process I go through but basically I cheat. After agonizing, researching, etc. I try to narrow the list to roses that I think will hold up the best to heat. Then comes the talking to myself. "Well, if this one sulks I can find a shadier spot..." even though I can't because there is no shade in my yard. "Well, I can plant something and wait until it grows and THEN plant it there..." followed by my favorite fantasy, "I can BUILD something there and then I would have instant shade plus vertical space so then I would need to order additional climbing roses to cover the structure..."
Lastly comes the cheating... "well if this rose is ugly/doesn't do well/ doesn't fit, I can plant it in my parent's garden or give it away to my coworkers/friends/family members because they aren't picky anyway!"
So in a way it's good that I don't have unlimited funds, although it doesn't feel that way when I want to order 50 or so roses every season. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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oh my! I don't know whether to be horrified or reassured at seeing so many aspects of my (slack) behaviour articulated so clearly but there is lots to aspire to. I am trying to be a good gardener and I so admire people who can be guided by such important considerations as health, climate, position. This is the gardener I would like to be in my dreams. I know that a plant in the right place, growing healthily really trumps all questions of design and aesthetics but, shame on me, this careful and responsible gardener seems to fade into some deep unconscious because I am actually governed by greed, lust, desire, obsession - I MUST HAVE THAT PLANT! Now, this doesn't really matter sometimes, as you have pointed out, space is always miraculously available and many of my lovely faves are tiny - auriculas, dianthus, alpines.....but roses are huge, my garden is tiny, my purse is slender. Inevitably, many, many plants have been (new word for me - shovel-pruned!). One day, I am going to think first, swoon later (rather than swoon first, regret later.)
Thanks for the advice. And the gorgeous pics. |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| Oh, no, campanula, I just had an eery thought. I bet you haven't even considered the other end of 'helpless indecision' when it comes time (and it will) to de-select roses. It's not too, too hard to de-select the dogs (after the first one it gets easier), but when push comes to shove, and your beauties have gotten huge, and something's got to give... Oh, my, perish the thought! I think I see my future. It's like wishing your children would always stay little and never grow up. Mmm, the pickles of gardening. Sherry |
RE: Helpless indecision - how do you do it?
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| my goodness, yes - I am in the throes of deselection. huge specimens of Zepherine Drouhin, Madame Gregoire Staechelin and Graham Thomas have to go - and they are not going quietly. Blood has been shed. |
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