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| I have a rose garden established in 2010, some new, some established but moved from other spots. I have carried out a "tough love" policy this fall, and some have been potted up and set aside in a covered ditch for next year's church plant sale. There is a LOT of real estate between the roses. And I don't love the look of all that mulch. Any suggestions for restrained perennial under plantings? Have learned the hard way that anemone sylvestris is a megalomaniac, and that several of the geraniums will explode outward. They look like ottomans, and while the enthusiasm to cover ground is admirable, they seem to want center stage. Has anyone used thyme? or, heaven forfend, mint? |
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| I have bell flowers that only get about 6 or 8 inches tall and form a mound of about a foot across. They've been in there for 10 years at least and have never gotten any bigger. I know they come in blue or white because I have those colors but they may come in other colors too. Heucheras seem to mound nicely too but the flower stalks do get taller. They're very wispy though so that might not be a problem. The leaves are really the prettiest part of them and they come in all kinds of colors now. Those are the only two I can think of that don't seem to want to take over my garden, lol. |
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- Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY (My Page) on Mon, Nov 25, 13 at 20:59
| Creeping thyme, yes. It does cover a lot of ground, and seeds about a bit. I'm currently slowly replacing it with hardy plumbago simply because the plumbago is more ornamental. It also plays better with the spring bulbs in that bed. Veronica 'Georgia Blue' is another favorite that manages to take up a lot of space horizontally, but doesn't really seem thuggish. Geraniums will look better after the roses grow some. I have a lot of them under roses, and an 18" geranium just looks like a toadstool under a 6 ft rose. |
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- Posted by roseblush1 8a/Sunset 7 (My Page) on Mon, Nov 25, 13 at 22:00
| I've used thyme under a few roses and like the look and the fact that I can step on it while I am working on the rose and it's fine. One caution about theme is to make sure that it does not grow close to the base of the rose because underplanting a rose with thyme seems to inhibit new basal growth in my climate. I've also planted coreopsis in one rose bed. Next spring, I plan to divide it and place it in other areas of the garden. There are several different cultivars with different growth habits. Mine are not planted near a rose, so I don't have to worry about stepping on it ... I really can be a klutz about that kind of thing. mad_gallica ... can you step on the hardy plumbago when you are working on your roses ? Seil ... I love huecheras, but don't have enough shade to keep them happy. There is "full sun" and "full sun". I am in heat zone 8 and in a more arid climate than they seem to need to thrive. I've planted three so far and only one of the three seems to be working in this garden. Smiles, |
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- Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY (My Page) on Tue, Nov 26, 13 at 7:58
| It's a narrow bed - less than 5 ft. Plumbago isn't something that can handle a lot of foot traffic, but I have walked through it.
From right to left, there is a brick path, the bed, then a grass path. There is also liriope, though it looks too much like grass to me to get too enthusiastic about it. BTW, the photo isn't from this year, but we do have a dusting of snow. |
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- Posted by sunnysideuphill 5 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 26, 13 at 8:40
| Thank you all, two suggestions for "action plan" - I have many varieties of thyme, will do some divide and spreading next spring, and of course an excuse to try more. And if heuchera is what I grew up calling Coral Bells, I know my sister grows several types. Those sound perfect for a few of the "leggy" ones, and I see a garden gc in my Christmas future….. |
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| Don't plant mint. At least here it is omnivorous! |
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| It's so funny that they say heucheras need some shade because mine are in full afternoon sun and they do great. They're in the bed on the west side of my house and get sun from about 11 am to sunset. As a matter of fact I accidentally pulled a chunk out weeding the bed so I moved it over to a shady spot I have. And there it sits. It hasn't died but it hasn't grown or bloomed one bit since I planted it. |
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- Posted by roseblush1 8a/Sunset 7 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 26, 13 at 13:46
| sunnysideuphill ... Please forgive me if I am hijacking your thread to talk about heucheras, but since you are planning to use some of them, I hope you don't mind. Yes, the common name for them is 'Coral Bells'. They started seriously breeding new cultivars in the 1980s. You should see the beauties they have created. Huecs could easily become another passion for me, if I can find those suited to my climate. Seil ... From my research, it appears that the heuchs with dark colored leaves can handle the most sun. Those that they claim are the most heat tolerant have the species H. villosa in their lineage. H. villosa is native to the southeast US ... a more humid climate than mine. So, for me, it's a matter of guessing which ones will work in my garden. I have a friend that grows several up here, but they are all planted in light shade. I don't have much shade in the area that is deer proof, so it's a little tricky for me to find the right plants. There are three coral bells that are native to this county, so I am looking for plants that use those species in their lineage. Do you know the names of the huecs you are growing ? mad_gallica ... Beautiful photo. Thanks for the information. If I use plumbago as a ground cover, I'll have to place it where I don't walk on it ... lol. Smiles, |
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- Posted by Nippstress 5-Nebraska (My Page) on Tue, Nov 26, 13 at 14:36
| Another part-shade groundcover that seems to handle the sun just fine is lamium, or dead nettle. It comes in a few varieties, all of which have green and silver leaves that set off the roses quite well and bloom in rose- friendly pinkish or purplish colors in spring. Most of mine is Lamium Beacon Silver, but there are others. It spreads and makes a mat, but it's only a few inches high and the roots are shallow enough not to interfere with the roses too much. I rip up chunks of this periodically and shove it under a bare space (assuming I can find any) and it takes root and starts gradually spreading out under its new hosts. It's not invasive in the sense of getting out of hand, but someone nearby who has some will undoubtedly have some to share. As for walking on it, it's not officially a "steppable" plant, but I've walked on mine countless times and you can't tell, as long as you don't always step in the exact same spot on the plants each time. Oh, and it's perfectly hardy through our winters and colder, and even looks decent in winter months. Cynthia |
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| Pinks, Lavender and Pansies are traditional ground covers under roses. Dwarf lavenders include Hidcote and Munsted. The latter is shorter but the flowers are a lighter color. I agree with Porkpal that mints would be invasive, except for Mentha requieni which is very low, about 1/2 inch high, and delightfully scented. Some of the lower pennyroyals might work too. I think that one is called Mentha pulegium 'Cunningham'. If you cannot find it elsewhere, try Companion Plants in Athens, Ohio. Cath |
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| I love pansies near the feet of my roses. I plant them in the fall and enjoy their fall bloom. Then I leave them to survive the winter on their own--and almost all of them do. Rarely do I lose any by spring. And of course they start blooming again in early spring right through early June. However, our excessive heat mid-summer is always too much for the pansies--so at that point I pull out the dwindling pansies and put in blue lobelias (annuals)--and enjoy them until mid-autumn when I put in the new pansies for the year and the cycle repeats itself. Kate |
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- Posted by sunnysideuphill 5 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 26, 13 at 22:55
| Pansies! Dublinbay - do you think they would over winter in zone 5, southern NH? |
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| Have you considered Prunella grandiflora? :-) ~Christopher |
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| Another nice plant is Nepeta mussinii, catmint, (not catnip). Catmint is much more decorative with at least two good flushes if sheared after the first flowering. It is low, maybe a foot high, possibly 18". Cath |
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- Posted by sunnysideuphill 5 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 7:32
| Ok I tried catmint, didn't know about shearing it, so it got floppy, hit the dirt after heavy rain and so looked ugly. Will try it again, because I liked the soft violet flowers. |
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| sunny, I really don't know about growing pansies in Zone 5--at least the way I do in Zone 6. But I do know we grew them in South Dakota when I was a kid. I'm sure you could plant them in the early spring and get a lovely bloom then, but I don't know if your summers are hot enough that they would burn up the pansies. If not, then you can just plant them early and enjoy them until winter comes--and if they can survive your winter, so much the better. I do add a nice collar of manure/humus around each pansy--partly for winter protection (although I don't know how much it actually gives) and for a good feeding (in addition to the balanced fertilizer I mixed in the soil when I planted them). I also periodically deadhead them--to encourage new flowers. You ought to try a couple 6-packs of them early next spring and see how they work out. Here's some blue pansies that I planted in the fall--blooming in the spring. (Ignore the neighbor's ugly garage!) Hope that helps. Kate |
This post was edited by dublinbay on Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 10:24
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- Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY (My Page) on Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 10:30
| A few years ago, there was a big fuss about Icicle pansies. They were supposed to be able to survive winter, and bloom in the fall and again in the spring. They did seem to have little trouble with winter if planted in the ground. Most of my annuals go in window boxes. The pansies did not survive those conditions. I had some leftovers go in the ground. Those did well in the fall, but were overshadowed in the spring by everything else. There was a fair amount of discussion in the New England forum about them, and I seem to remember my results were typical. |
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| Sunny, The catmints vary by size quite a bit. Nepeta mussinii is a dwarf. N. Six Hills Giant is listed as 3' tall. This size difference as well as the shearing could help explain the difference in flopping. Cath |
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| mad gallica, You misunderstood what I was saying. That pansies in Zone 5 may not survive the winter is exactly why I recommended planting the pansies in Zone 5 in the spring and NOT in the fall. Here in Zone 6 I plant in the fall because pansies cannot survive the extremely hot summers here, but I'd guess the opposite pattern prevails in Zone 5--that the spring-planted pansies just might be able to survive the summers there and continue blooming into the fall. Whether or not they would survive winter is what I was questioning. Trying it would be the only way to find out. Kate |
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- Posted by annececilia z5a/N.Michigan (My Page) on Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 7:05
| Kate, I have had spring planted pansies bloom through summer, into fall and come out from under the snow in the following spring still blooming - in zone 4. So it is possible. It doesn't work EVERY year, IME, but it has quite often for me. Anne |
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