Lux,

R. gallica and Apothecary Rose were called "red" at the time.

The Elizabethans also had a pink damask rose.

Here is a poem comparing Elizabeth to a rose-- see the acrostic in the left margin, "Elisabetha Regina." As far as I know, this is the first appearance of the phrase "Queen of flowers" in English.

To the Rose
Sir John Davies (from Hymns of Astraea, 1599)

Eye of the Garden, Queene of flowres,
LoveÂs cup wherein he nectar powres,
Ingendered first of nectar;
Sweet nurse-child of the SpringÂs young howres,
And BeautieÂs faire character.

Best jewell that the Earth doth weare,
Even when the brave young sunne draws neare,
To her hot Love pretending
Himselfe likewise like forme doth beare,
At rising and descending.

Rose of the Queene of Love belovÂd;
EnglandÂs great Kings divinely movÂd,
Gave Roses in their banner;
It shewed that BeautieÂs Rose indeed,
Now in this age should them succeed,
And raigne in more sweet manner.

Most wild roses bloom in late June in England and northern Europe.

I agree that it is very irritating with roses that are out of period in period films, etc. On the cover of my copy of The Apothecary Rose - A Medieval Murder Mystery by Candace Robb is a monk surrounded by red hybrid teas. If it's not possible to find the right kind of rose in flower, the film makers could use an artificial rose instead. The audience would never know if the rose is made from silk and an actress worth her salt should be able to swoon over it as well as the real thing.

I love this thread and find it fascinating. I love the Elizabethan England era. Thank you for posting this, Luxrosa.

Juliet

HEAR, HEAR!!

The Scots Briars being native would be in period but doubles werent being raised till the late 1700's. I cant see the Queen being handed one of those though.

patricia

As to time of bloom, the poem says "Even when the brave young sun draws near," that is, around the summer solstice, June 22, when the sun is strongest..

Thank you, Michaelg,
for the historical poem, it is useful to know when the term Queen of flowers, was used in English.

Has the Scotch Burnet rose been documented as being grown in England in the 1500's? or is it native to southern England?

- I came across one source that says that Robert de Brie introduced the 'Autumn Damask' to Europe in the middle ages, does anyone know if this is likely to have been true? Does anyone know its date of introduction into England?

Many thanks,
Lux.

Does anyone know its date of introduction into England?

*** I don't think anyone really knows, but from what I read, they feel that a good many of these things were brought to Europe and England by returning Crusaders.
This doesn't help substantially, since there were multiple Crusades, over a long period.
But it might give you an end-date, if you check on when the last crusades ended.

Jeri

Great post---very interesting.

Florence

Lux, the essayist Montaigne mentions the oddity of a repeat-blooming rose, "red" (pink), in Italy in the early 1600s. This is the earliest certain mention of repeat-blooming in Europe and it might have been Autumn Damask. However, it is strange that such a wonder wouldn't have quickly spread around the continent.

Take the "rose history" chapter in a typical rose book with a grain of salt. There are all sorts of fanciful notions being copied from one book to another.

It has been proven by DNA research that Autumn Damask arose by mutation from something like the basic damask (Kazanlik), but there is no evidence of its existence in the Middle Ages or antiquity.

Elizabeth I was born 1533 and died in 1603. Carolus Clusius(1526-1609) was at the Court of Austria and later began the Clusius Botanical garden at Leiden, Holland in 1593. His friend Ogier Giselain de Busbeq(1520-1592) supposedly sent him tulips which he collected when he was the ambassador to Turkey. It's been my theory that Busbeq brought back rosa foetida bicolor, native to Persia, also known as Austrian Copper, but I haven't seen any proof.
Now, the Dutch revolted against Spain in 1572 and Elizabeth defeated the Spanish Armada in 1588,so there's a chance of friendly contact between the Netherlands and England. Busbeq was sent to attend the marriage of Elizabeth's sister, Mary.
Here's the time puzzler. Busbeq died in 1592 and Clusius began the botanical garden in 1593. He must have just brought some plants with him that he collected in Vienna. He was prefect of the imperial medical garden in Vienna by Maximilian II and made Gentleman of the Imperial Chamber, but he was discharged from the imperial court shortly after the accession of Rudolf II in 1576.
You can see that all of these dates need some work. If anybody could discover Clusius's list of plants he grew at Leiden, you might know whether the Austrian Copper and Autumn Damask were among them.
Whether they got across the English Channel or not, who knows? But the appropriate gift for a queen at the time would have been tulips.
There's a painting of roses and tulips at this website.

Here is a link that might be useful: tulips and roses