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| I've been collecting mildew resistant teas for a bed in the lower corner of our fenced yard. Ours is a hillside property, steep in some sections. There is a large Italian stone pine dominating that area, but on the edge of its shadow is an area that gets very good morning sun. That is where these roses will go.
Today Tom and I began digging. Because of the slope, we wanted to put in a low barrier for soil stability. We discussed a number of options. On this property when we bought it years ago there was an old power pole (privately owned by the previous owner), since taken down. We had it cut up into five segments. Today we dug five shallow trenches in a curve on the downhill side of the new bed. We settled the pole segments into these trenches to keep soil from rolling down the hill and piling up against the fence. Tom is drilling holes in each pole, and we are pounding metal stakes into the soil to further stabilize the poles. As the roses grow, they will arch over and cover the poles. When they are mature we will no longer even see them. In a few days it will be time to start planting roses. I'm excited about getting these in before the winter rains start in earnest. Of course I still need to amend the soil. Not a lot of organic material there -- I'm going to get lots of compost to add. Rosefolly |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| So... what tea roses? |
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| My question exactly ... What Teas? Jeri |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 7, 12 at 22:25
| And just WHERE are the photos? :) I would love to see! And you will enjoy this, our veggie garden has a couple of terraces made out of...the power pole when Edison replaced it! The old pole "stump" anchors one side of our compost bin too. I do want to remove our segments since we grow veggies, we really should not be using the poles or the few railroad ties dad picked up. Slowly I will replace with the common and boring, but fairly cheap and easy to get, smaller concrete stacking blocks from Home Depot. I used them to build a few small terraces this summer and plan to add some semi circles to help hold soil and water on the new citrus trees. |
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- Posted by jeannie2009 PNW 7/8 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 7, 12 at 22:55
| Wow..now that is truly repurposing. What a great idea. Don't you get such a great sense of satisfaction when moving along on such a large and important project. Your sweetie is real special. Have fun. Jeannie |
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| From personal experience, tho, those poles do eventually rot away. Jeri |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Thu, Nov 8, 12 at 0:31
| Some of ours are pretty rotten inside, I figure it just makes them easier to move....lol On the other hand they have been used in the dirt for 30 years, so guessing we go our moneys worth (free-lol) |
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| Yes, Jeannie, I do feel good about putting this old pole to good use rather than simply discarding it. As for photos, there's nothing much to see at this point, just a bare slope with a big pine tree in the background, and a fence interfering with camera angles. Our pole segments have been on the ground for three years and so far have not deteriorated. I know they will do so in time, but I expect they'll last long enough for rose roots to become well established. That is the plan at any rate. After all, nothing lasts forever. Not even stone would be truly permanent here in earthquake country. I have 15 roses selected and waiting to be planted. I am only confident about fitting in 13. I'm planting on 8 foot centers to give them lots of room since most of them can grow pretty big. I'd rather give a couple away than pack them in and come to regret it later. Here is the list, in no particular order. Fortune's Double Yellow (considered a China not a Tea) If I run out of room, and I well might, I'll skip planting Plymouth Fence Tea, mostly because I don't know much about it and can't get a description that tells me much. I also might skip Madame Jules Gravereaux, based on the fact that it may (or may not) be the same as Miss Atwood. This one is more difficult for me. I'm torn. Fortune's Double Yellow is a once bloomer, but such a glorious one, and mine came as a rooted cutting from Miriam Wilkins's own garden. That makes it rather special in my eyes. However, if I really had to eliminate one more, that would be the one. I hope it doesn't come to that. I have a few other teas already growing in another bed, one I call the Olive Tree Bed. This new one will be imaginatively named the Pine Tree Bed. The Olive Tree bed has Anna Olivier, Lady Hillingdon, and Madame Lambard. Elsewhere I have Sunset (gift of Papa Roseman) and a young hedge of five "Westside Cream Tea". I think I have now fulfilled my goal of exploring the Tea class of roses. Rosefolly
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| I have some advice, gardening on a hill can be hard on you physically. I have two hills in my yard. The larger one we let go natural, planted loblolly pines for stability and there are native oaks and hickory coming up. The smaller hill has a stone pathway leading down to the backyard. It was done by a landscaper and shored up because it wasn't stable. I planted carpet roses on there, along with other things. It has been difficult to tend to the roses, very hard on the ankles and knees. So if you can level and area where you are working on the roses, that will help. |
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- Posted by mendocino_rose z8 N CA. (My Page) on Thu, Nov 8, 12 at 9:38
| That's exciting Paula. I can't wait to see the results. |
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| Buford, unfortunately that is not possible. What a dream that would be! My front garden is level though, and I'm grateful for that at least. Pam, you certainly will be seeing it at some point! Jeri, at one point you were interested in acquiring 'Plymouth Fence Tea'. Since I may need to pass on that one, would you like to have it? I can save it for you if you like. I'm pretty sure it is not going to fit. I seem to have had bigger eyes than garden space. Rosefolly |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Thu, Nov 8, 12 at 12:18
| Rosefolly, I hope you do take pictures as you go through the process of making this bed. You never know, some day you might wish you had before photos. I know I wish I had documented what I started with at my parents place. It was a mess and I just could not see taking photos of piles of junk and over growth. But now as a new garden appears where trash once was, I wish I had that before photo. |
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- Posted by zeffyrose_pa6b7 6b7 (My Page) on Thu, Nov 8, 12 at 21:37
| This sounds so exciting----I do hope you post pictures of your progress---especially for folks like me who now enjoy gardening vicariously I love Teas but they never did well in my garden so I will especially enjoy watching your grow. Florence |
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| Well, I really don't mean to be coy about it, but I don't think the pictures are very meaningful. But since folks asked, I took a few. Don't say I didn't warn you. This new bed will be a long curve on the downhill side of the hill that falls away from the house on three sides. Here is the view from the less steep end of the future rose bed.
Here is the view from the other end. The black hoses are the rough-in for the drip irrigation Tom is installing.
Here is a closeup of the poles showing the slope and the trunk of the Italian stone pine tree that partially shades the area.
And since these pictures are not terribly exciting, I thought I'd add a picture of the roses that will be planted there quite soon. That should make us all happy.
So that's it. I hope it will be more beautiful at some point. This is the most barren part of the property and it could stand to be improved. Outside the fence I have been planting manzantas and toyons. I may add a ceanothus and some sages at some point as well, things that can get by without watering. I don't like emptiness. Rosefolly
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- Posted by organic_tosca 9/Sunset 14 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 9, 12 at 17:43
| Rosefolly, your Olive Tree Bed roses are 3 of my MOST FAVORITE roses. Your list is mouth-watering. And I loved seeing your Stone Pine plot-to-be! That's a very exciting project. Laura |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 9, 12 at 20:28
| That looks like a lot of WORK! I know the pictures might not excite you now, but 4-5 years down the road when it is in full bloom, it is neat to look back at where you were and how far you have come. |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 9, 12 at 21:49
| I thought you might get a giggle out of this I have to look back some times and remember that this |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 9, 12 at 21:53
| Ended up like this (note the crack in the sidewalk-they match) |
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- Posted by zeffyrose_pa6b7 6b7 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 9, 12 at 23:02
| Looks like a wonderful project-----can't wait to see all those roses spilling all over the place I think it will be breathtaking-- Florence |
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| Now that we've had a bit of rain to soften the soil, I went out today to place stakes where I am going to plant the roses in the new Pine Tree Bed. I decided to use 7 foot centers rather than 8 foot centers. It is still generous spacing. This was the first time I could really tell how many will fit. I found that I will only be able to put 11 roses in the bed without putting any in fairly deep shade, something I don't want to do. I had 14 roses collected. One will fit in the Olive Tree Bed where I'd planned to put another rose; and one can go into another spot I'd been reserving for something other than a rose. (Funny how that happens.) The rest will simply have to be given away. I have learned from previous experience that it is really a bad idea to plant too closely. It leads to future regret, to backbreaking work, and frequently to the loss of plants you would have enjoyed had they not been shoehorned in so tightly. Fortune's Double Yellow simply cannot be made to fit, so it is going. The same is true for Secret Garden Musk Climber, which got bumped from the Olive Tree Bed to make room for the tea. I do have someone I can pass these along to. It's really too bad. I bought both of these roses a few years ago and ended up taking them out because I didn't have enough space. I wanted to try again. Well, apparently I still don't have enough space. Eventually it sinks in. The only way I could keep SGMC would be to remove Rosa moschata. I love that rose. I also got small pickup sized truck load of composted horse manure. The soil in that area is low in organic matter so I think it is needed for roses to grow well. Over the next month or two I hope to get most of these planted. A couple are still in the small side (Souvenir de Pierre Notting and Oneto Home Saffron) so I'm going to nurse them along in gallon pots for a while longer, probably until spring. Rosefolly |
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| Just saying: I pulled SGMC out of the give-away pile and put it back with the keep pile. I may or may not ever find a place to plant it, but I decided that I'm not ready to give up on it just quite yet. After all, I can up-pot it into 5 gallon in the spring to give myself more time to think it over. Something may die, and then how sorry I would be that I didn't have it waiting? Mendocino Rose herself advised me that it is always a good idea to have something in the pot ghetto for emergency planting. R |
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- Posted by ilovemyroses 8 Dallas TX (My Page) on Mon, Nov 19, 12 at 19:09
| I admire your reserve in keeping the spacing generous. Something I struggle so much with!! But I more quite a few this fall, and am learning the hard way! Just have to take in more grass!! rather than crowd beds! I look forward to watching your teas grow!! So pretty in NCal. |
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| Rosefolly, what an exciting project! I love tea roses and of your group have Le Vesuve, Rosette Delizy and Miss Atwood. I should tell you that Miss Atwood is quite a lusty grower, but a 7-foot center should be adequate. The teas can always be kept to that size even if they want to grow bigger without any harm to them. Le Vesuve probably has the nastiest thorns of all my teas, and you might want to consider that when placing yours. I suspect Miss Atwood may be the same rose as Madame Jules Gravereaux from what I can tell on HMF. I had Oneto Home Saffrom but a gopher got to it before I realized what was happening. For my color scheme I felt it was too strong a yellow and, in looking at your list, I think it will also be the strongest color in your group. I very much look forward to seeing further pictures of your tea rose bed. I think it's going to be spectacular. Ingrid |
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| Ingrid, I have been debating back and forth with myself over whether Miss Atwood and Madame Jules are or are not the same rose. There seems to be disagreement, and I certainly don't know the answer. If they are the same, I really do not want to keep both. Of course I could always plant one and keep the other in a larger pot for a year and make the comparison. Is there anyone out there who knows both roses and could give us an accurate answer? Rosefolly |
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| What a lovely place you have rosefolly. The slope doesn't look super steep, but if you can give yourself some of those concrete blocks for stepping stones, life will be easier. Is that Aloe plicatilis in the pot on the right of the roses? Kippy you've been busy! |
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| rosefolly, I think I may have led you astray in regard to maintaining that Miss Atwood and MJG were identical. It's been some time since I looked at the latter on HMF, and I have studied my Miss Atwood over several seasons, and I would now say definitively that the two are not the same rose. MJG is a fuller rose, with more nuanced coloring, and the petal edges bend backward, which never happens with Miss Atwood, which has shorter and shaggier petals, which also appear to have a thinner consistency. In my opinion MJG is much superior in terms of beauty of the blooms. I did have this rose once but it died while still a band-size plant. If I could exchange Miss Atwood for MJG I would do so in a heartbeat since to me it's a much more spectacular rose. It will be very interesting to see how the two compare in your garden, and I hope you'll let us know your opinion. Kippy, I'm astounded at what you've done in your garden. Those are probably the most dramatic before and after pictures I've ever seen. I nominate you as Superwoman of the garden world! Ingrid |
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| Ingrid, after your post I was out this very morning once again looking at the two of them in their pots. There are no flowers to compare. With not enough material for a real evaluation, my first impression is that the leaves of MJG are somewhat rounder, and that the leaves of Miss Atwood are more elongated and have a narrower point. But as I said, not enough material to make a real decision. I could find leaves on each plant that would not look out of place on the other. |
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| Kippy, somehow I was scrolling too quickly down to see the new posts at the end and I missed seeing your pictures. That is quite a change! No wonder you are an advocate for pictures along the way. Otherwise, no one (even you) would believe how different it once was. |
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- Posted by harborrose 8a-PNW (My Page) on Fri, Nov 23, 12 at 13:16
| Rosefolly, thanks for sharing your pictures and plans for your new tea beds. I don't have any advice, but just wanted to say I hope they all do beautifully for you. I do love tea roses and hope they become a favorite class for you as well. |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Sat, Nov 24, 12 at 12:07
| Rosefolly, hope you got a giggle out of those photos. I wish I would have taken a full set of photos of every thing I did around my parents place. But I never thought anything less than a dozer and dump truck would be needed and was embarrassed about the condition of their place. That feeling guilty you "let" your parents live like that and knowing that they would not allow me to do anything to clean it up. It took my dad turning 90 and a letter from the insurance company to get them to allow me to start cleaning it up. Even then Mom thought a fresh rope would "fix" the problem with the fence. I look back at that before photo every time I think that progress is too slow or hard work is not making a difference. It is good to have a reminder that you have come far on days you feel overwhelmed or like things are not going as planned. (Funny story-I had helped mom "fix" the roof on that shed with the blue tarp years before. But the tarp was covered in leaves that were wet and slowly sinking in the rotting roof. So I planned on pulling that tarp toward me to replace it. I was standing on the orchard ladder clearing the leaves while mom and my youngest son went to look for mandarines in the garden. They heard the loudest "Girl Scream" and both came running assuming I had fallen from the ladder. No I had come face to face with an unhappy opossum that had made a nest up there and was not happy to be evicted) |
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| I hope you keep us posted on your progress. I, too have been working on a hillside project, and am making plans to keep the hill from eroding. Your property is lovely, and you are planning well. Since I live in Oklahoma, my roses will be much smaller than yours, but I also grow Le Vesuve, Rosette Delizy, Etoile de Lyon, and Monsieur Tillier. Le Vesuve is doing well for me, and Monsieur Tillier is quite vigorous. Rosette Delizy and Etoile de Lyon may be having problems with our weather. I hope you keep us posted as you progress. It will be very pretty when you are finished. |
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