is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by view1ny 6b/7a (My Page) on

Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 22:17

I saw this rose growing in a front yard in my neighborhood & was wondering if it is FP. It was about 5' tall & there were several blooms. In November!! I want this rose but am not sure if it's Scentimental or FP or something else. Any info would be appreciated.

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RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by JoshTx 8a (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 22:34

If you post pictures of its leaves, thorns, and buds, I can do my best to ID it!

Josh

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by view1ny 6b/7a (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 22:41

does this help? I only took 2 pics with my phone. I should have taken more but the idea of posting the pics came to me a week later. Thanks, Josh.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 22:48

Unlikely. The foliage is wrong. Maybe, this is 'Scentimental,' which is descended from F.P.

Jeri

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by mendocino_rose z8 N CA. (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 9:30

I think it is Scentimental.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by rosefolly Z9/S16 NCal (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 10:54

I agree. I grow Ferdinand Pichard and it looks quite different.

Rosefolly

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 11:21

It doesn't look right for Scentimental to me. It may be the time of year, but the foliage isn't shiny enough.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by view1ny 6b/7a (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 14:46

The pics I've seen of Scentimental on HMF show a much brighter red. The flower I saw was a pinkish red & not so strong a color. So I'm not sure it's Scentimental & I would hate to order the wrong rose as I'm not a fan of bright red blooms.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 15:21

Scentimental's blooms are fairly changeable, and this is very late in the year. The bloom looks -- to me -- like a half-open Scentimental. But no guarantees. It MAY be that rose, or not.

I am fairly sure that this is not Ferdinand Pichard. You might, however, take a look at a bud, and see if it is covered with glandular structures.

Jeri

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by lynnette PNW (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 21:44

My Ferdinand Pichard looks like this and the leaves are not as delicate looking. More leathery.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by lynnette PNW (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 21:49

My Scentimental. It should have more petals but as Jeri says, it changes all the time. The first blooms were fuller.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by view1ny 6b/7a (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 28, 13 at 22:59

Jeri, can you please explain what you mean by glandular structures on FP's buds? I looked at Lynette's photo but don't see what you're referring to.

Lynette, thanks so much for posting your pics. They're both beautiful roses, but the one I saw looks more like your Scentimental than FP.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 12:03

Little glandular structures all over the sepals.

I had to really look for a photo to show it, because we no longer grow many roses that have these. But you can see them on the sepals of this opening bud.

If you go through the photos of Ferdinand Pichard in HelpMeFind, you will find similar structures.

If you go through photos of Scentimental in HelpMeFind, you will not find them.

Jeri

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by view1ny 6b/7a (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 12:57

wow, jeri. thanks for taking the time to explain.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 14:04

No problema. :-)

One neat thing, though -- is that 'Scentimental' is descended from 'Ferdinand Pichard,' through 'Peppermint Twist' and Ralph Moore's 'Pinstripe.'

Moore went to FP for stripes, and Carruth went back to that line for them. The fun thing is that FP's leaves, when you look at them for real, have a bit of a "quilted" look -- and 'Scentimental' inherited that.

I just love seeing traits like that come forward through a pedigree. :-)

Jeri

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by raingoaway12 8b (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 30, 13 at 23:02

I am very interested to find out what the rose in the original post of this thread is. I would love to add it to my yard. Could it be either the rose 'Variegata di Bologna' or the rose 'Rock & Roll'?

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 2:10

'Variegata di Bologna' is basically a once-bloomer (with a very rare flower or two every few years in the Autumn, from accounts I've read), so if the pics were taken recently, it can't be that rose.

:-)

~Christopher

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 12:13

In fact, in our coastal area of Southern California, we grew Variegata for three years, and saw in total one bloom. And it was BIG.

Rain, I really think the originally-posted rose was 'Scentimental,' tho I'd think Rock & Roll is a possibility.

Jeri

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by view1ny 6b/7a (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 17:30

edmundsroses.com has both rock n roll (more red than white) & scentimental (more white than red.) The rose I saw was closer to scentimental but the stripes weren't so red.

any chance it's honorine de brabant? it looks similar but I don't know if HDB would have several blooms in cool weather in November.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by campanula UK Cambridge (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 18:27

absolutely not HdB - foliage all wrong, contrast too strong. Not Variagata d' Bologna either - those very rounded leaves look far too modern to me
caveat - IDs are not my strong suit

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 18:51

No. NOT Honorine de Brabant. It's not even close to that rose.

Campanula is correct. The foliage is modern in appearance. I'm sorry, but I simply do not think this is an Old Garden Rose.

Jeri.

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by rosefolly Z9/S16 NCal (My Page) on
Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 12:05

Not an OGR, but still a very nice rose indeed. I started out as an OGR snob, but have since relaxed a bit on that. Modern roses rarely have the qualities I want, but if they do, I'm happy to plant them in my garden. There are several HTs I like, and I would be sorry to be without the reproduction roses.

Rosefolly

RE: is this ferdinand pichard?

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Posted by jerijen Sunset Z24 (My Page) on
Mon, Dec 2, 13 at 13:12

Fer sure. :-)

Jeri

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