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| I've mostly been lurking on this forum, since I don't actually grow any roses myself- too much shade & no money for plants. However, a gardening friend has said I can have a cutting of this rose, and it seems to be doing pretty well in conditions similar to what I can provide, so I'm cautiously optimistic. The gentleman whose plant this is can't recall her name, but says that she's an old cabbage rose and has a woman's name- he thinks it's a name with two words. Any thoughts as to ID? The following pix were taken (in mostly low-light conditions- sorry!) in the SC Lowcountry between late September and mid-December 2013. Thanks for any help you can provide!
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Follow-Up Postings:
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| I'm not great at ID'ing this group, but that looks like a Tea. And the first pic made me think of 'Mons. Tillier', but I'm sure others more familiar with Teas can offer a better guess. :-) ~Christopher |
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| Thanks so much for having a look. Here in the coastal South, teas are always likely suspects. I would guess that the plant is about 6-8 feet tall, although she would probably be much taller if she were completely upright- she has what I would call an arching habit (but please remember that I know very little about roses, so that may not be the proper descriptive jargon!). She is also fragrant, but my sense of smell isn't too reliable, so I can't say if the fragrance is light, strong, tea-like, etc. She has some thorns, but not many- I forgot to post a photo showing the reddish thorns... perhaps they provide a clue?
The term 'cabbage rose' has me a bit confused. Is it sometimes used generically to describe any rose with a full appearance? Is it used interchangeably with 'centifolia'? I don't think he's likely to be mistaken about the description- if he says it's a cabbage rose, that's because it was described to him that way, although the phrase might not mean the same thing these days? He and his late wife were both plant-crazy and ran a nursery for years, although she knew more about roses than he did. |
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| "Cabbage rose" was first used to describe the Centifolias, then later the term was applied to some Hybrid Perpetuals which had a similar flower form. I think the term continued to be used (if rather incorrectly) to describe almost any many-petaled rose with the old flower shape (as opposed to the high-centered shape epitomized by Hybrid Teas and some of the later old Teas). If you saw flowers that late in the season, it's not a Centifolia -- but that's apparent by looking at the pics, anyway. To my eye, it looks rather Tea-ish, which could mean it's actually a Tea, or a Hybrid Perpetual (or Bourbon) with Tea breeding, or an early Hybrid Tea. I'm hoping that more Tea experts from CA will chime in with stronger opinions. :-) ~Christopher |
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- Posted by farmerduck Northern Jersey (My Page) on Wed, Dec 18, 13 at 15:08
| I am a novice, but my young B.R. Cant is similar to your rose in flower, foliage and thorn pattern. I heard that it is difficult to positively ID pink Teas (or was it rather pink Hybrid Teas?) because there are a large number of them. |
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| Dang, I returned to this thread because I just thought "maybe 'Mrs. B. R. Cant'..." but you beat me to it. :-) ~Christopher |
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| I actually ran 'Mrs B R Cant' by the plant's owner since I thought the flowers were similar. He didn't think that was the name, but he may not have heard me well- names with initials can easily sound like something else. I looked at Mrs BRC at HMF, and about half the photos looked similar, and the others did not. Different growing conditions, I guess. Also, I forgot to mention that this plant has been in a container for years... Thanks for your help- unless someone knows of another similar-looking rose, I'll assume that this is 'Mrs B R Cant'. Which is great, since she is supposed to love our hot weather, and will tolerate some shade... |
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- Posted by malcolm_manners 9b C. Fla. (My Page) on Wed, Dec 18, 13 at 17:47
| Mrs. B. R. Cant was my first thought too. It's quite variable, but all of your photos COULD be it. |
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| Thanks for your perspective- I really appreciate it. I know that a rose by any other name smells as sweet, but I do like to call my friends by the correct name... I really loved the FSC Rose Garden photos you posted by the way. 'Edith Schurr', 'Dr Prevatt' and the 'Key West Rock Rose' especially appeal. I'm going to see if I can keep Mrs Cant (or her look-alike) alive, and if she does okay, I'm sure I'll be back here asking for advice on another shade-and-heat-tolerant rose to keep her company. |
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- Posted by malcolm_manners 9b C. Fla. (My Page) on Wed, Dec 18, 13 at 21:07
| If that's who it is, and if you find someone with a good nose to test it, I'd say 'Mrs. B. R. Cant' has more of that cold-wet-used-teabag scent than any other Tea I've ever grown. It's pleasant, but really distinct. |
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| FWIW, I also think MBRC is a possibility. Dang Teas, tho ... All of 'em are so changeable . . . |
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| Thanks for the tip about the teabag scent- that's a useful test. My sense of smell is like my sense of hearing- some frequencies are far better than others. I'm always extremely sensitive to certain odors- such as cigarette or wood smoke- but other scents are hit-and-miss. I know that temperature and humidity affect odor molecules, but independently of those factors, my sense of smell waxes and wanes on its own mysterious schedule. |
This post was edited by vmr423 on Thu, Dec 19, 13 at 14:31
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| Whether she is MRBC or not, I will love and cherish her if she'll grow in our yard! We have lots of space and lots of shade trees, so it is camellia-and-azalea-heaven, but not exactly ideal for most roses. |
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