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| I asked about gallicas and ended up buying four last month :) I also want to try some alba roses, since they supposedly do well in light shade and are supposed to be hardy to zone 4 (for the most part). I got a Great Maiden's Blush when I ordered the gallicas.
Now I'd like to know, what do you all think of portland roses? I'm looking for some that repeat bloom, have some fragrance and are hardy. Any suggestions? Also, what are your favorite damask roses? Does anyone have a repeat damask and does it repeat very well? Once blooming is fine, but I've read that there is a repeat blooming damask and wondered how well it repeated. Thank you :) |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by cemeteryrose USDA 9/Sunset 14 (My Page) on Sat, Dec 12, 09 at 2:32
| Hi - I have Marbree. It's lightly speckled and reblooms quite well. Rose de Rescht is a classic, repeats well and is very fragrant. Its blooms don't hold in a vase, if that matters to you. We have Alba Semi-plena in the cemetery thanks to Kaylah on this forum. It is really striking. I love the damask scent, although the plants are pretty rangy. If you were going to grow one at home, I'd choose the white moss variant of Autumn Damask, Quatre Saisson Blanc Mousseux. You get the fragrance, repeat bloom, incredible mossiness, and some of the most elegant bud clusters ever. Most Autumn Damasks bloom well spring and fall, with scattered bloom in between. Four seasons are a definitely an exaggeration. |
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| Damascus, the home of the damask and portland roses must be very far from zone 4! In botanic gardens and those belonging to other people, I have long admired the once-blooming damasks, Celsiana and Isphahan, which bloom for a lengthy period in spring. I have had Rose de Rescht for more than twenty years in my tiny, semi-shaded Brooklyn back yard and am very, very pleased with it. The two I have planted on Long Island for my cousin have not been as happy, in fact they are barely hanging on -- a big problem has been killing frosts in Spring, also deer and rabbits. It can be wonderfully fragrant in other people's gardens, though mine never has been. For myself, I recently purchased Yolande d'Aragon, which I have planted in a large pot. This rose has the most beautiful, long, decorative sepals growing around the buds. The fragrance, even on my plant, is everything one could wish for. I didn't think I liked the deep, saturated raspberry pink color so much -- in the abstract -- but in fact I adore it. On the negative side, the plant is a bit stiff and awkward: it is not as fully clothed in foliage as Rose de Rescht, and so the blackspot it gets is more noticeable. If you can grow it in zone 4 it would certainly be worth it. I also have Autumn Damask (also with beautiful sepals) in a pot, but it is new last year and hasn't bloomed yet. I still remember a beautiful vignette in the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens of Autumn Damask, La Reine Victoria, and Sonia Rykiel all blooming side by side in semi-shade in August, all very fragrant and all about the same color. I had a perhaps unrealizable wish to recreate a version of this somehow, someday, That was my dream, anyway. (I did manage to acquire Sonia Rykiel, but unfortunately its health and vigor have been so-so, to put it kindly. It is gone from the BBG, as is La Reine Victoria, which I wouldn't have had room for anyway). We are planning to re-do the garden at some point, which is why I have so many things in pots. |
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| I second the vote for Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseaux and all the good things Anita has to say about it. You get the best of the Damasks and Mosses all in one rose. Aromatic even when not in bloom. But actually, I don't know about the hardiness in zone 4. I can't really say much about Portlands, other that they are quite chlorotic here. |
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| Ispahan is I think the best of the once blooming Damasks-the bloom is forever and it is a really clean rose. Botzaris is another good one-white, tidy long bloom but gets a little more spotty. Indigo is a good Portland/Damask Perpetual-lots of bloom and nice. I recently got Pergolése and it bloomed even heavier in the fall which was quite the surprise. I have Quatre Saisson Blanc Mosseux that has primarily reverted and to my shock the reversions froze in last winter's 5 degrees. I would not have thought the original would be less freeze hardy than the sport. The unreverted parts came through fine so I dont know how Quatre Saisson will do for you. I find it black spots but I seldom spray and then only with sulfur. patricia |
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- Posted by lavender_lass WA zone 4 (My Page) on Sat, Dec 12, 09 at 19:05
| Thank you all for your responses. Yes, the damasks and portland roses (some not all) are hardy in zone 4, at least according to Northland Rosarium and some other growers on the Internet. I plan to buy own root roses, since it can get quite cold here. I've been leaning towards purchasing Celsiana, La Ville de Bruxelles, maybe Isaphan for damasks and Indigo, Jacques Cartier and Rose de Recht for the portlands. I would like to try autumn damask, but I need to verify the zone and I believe Salet and Chapeau de Napoleon are both listed as hardy to zone 4. That being said, they'll all be in a fairly protected area, out of the wind, so I'll hope for the best :) |
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- Posted by melissa_thefarm NItaly (My Page) on Sun, Dec 13, 09 at 3:02
| Another note about the damasks and their close relations: they seem to be among the most tolerant roses for compact clay soil and hot dry summers. (Albas are also good.) I have a group of Summer and Perpetual Damasks, Portlands, and related roses growing in a bed where I started with Gallicas, losing most of them. The current inhabitants nearly all made it through the summer, and by and large look fairly cheerful. These are difficult conditions even for the tough and thrifty Teas, so I take note of the roses that DO grow well here. Melissa |
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- Posted by lavender_lass WA zone 4 (My Page) on Sun, Dec 13, 09 at 13:59
| Melissa- Thanks for the input. It's good to know what roses will do well in clay. So far, they haven't seemed to be too bothered by it, but I water a LOT and mixed in a bunch of organic amendment (aged horse manure) about half and half when I planted them. That probably goes against common advice, but it seems to work so far :) I planted three hybrid teas this summer (two Oklahomas and a Sweet Surrender), with a climbing Cecile Brunner and a fairy rose and Tamora. I also planted two Fantin Latours and a miniture rose named Innocence. They all did very well over the summer, even with the heat, so I hope they make it through the winter. They're up against the house, so they have a little more protection. I think the antique roses would be a little hardier and have such a great history. I read the damask rose is supposed to be a cross between gallicas and rosa phoenicia...has anyone ever seen a picture of rosa phoenicia or does it even still exist? I never see it in the books. |
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- Posted by celestialrose zone 4/NH (My Page) on Sun, Dec 13, 09 at 16:20
| Since we're both in zone 4 (albeit opposite sides of the country), I can tell you that damasks and portlands do well here. There is minimal winterkill in a typical winter, which is usually just some light pruning come spring. For repeat bloom, the best for me is Marchesa Boccella (some say it is the same rose as Jacques Cartier), followed by Rose de Rescht, Yolande d'Aragon and Portland from Glendora (also called Johasine Hanet). All are deliciously fragrant. For once-blooming damasks, my favorites are Ispahan, La Ville de Bruxelles and Leda. Ispahan does indeed have the longest bloom time and starts blooming later than my other old roses. I grow Autumn Damask, which is supposed to repeat bloom, but after 4 years it still hasn't re-bloomed for me. I wonder if it still isn't mature, or if my growing season is too short to reap the benefit of rebloom. I love these reliable roses and think you will too. I hope Celeste MARCHESA BOCCELLA..... ROSE DE RESCHT.....
YOLANDE D'ARAGON....
LA VILLE DE BRUXELLES....SEPAL ARE LOVELY TOO LEDA....
ISPAHAN....
PORTLAND FROM GLENDORA...
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- Posted by lavender_lass WA zone 4 (My Page) on Sun, Dec 13, 09 at 21:24
| Celeste- Your pictures are beautiful! Thank you so much for sharing them on such a wintery day :) It's good to know so many wonderful roses are available, even with our cold winters. |
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| These are such sumptuous photos, Celeste - really gorgeous. I've grown the Marchesa, but it never looked like yours. Portland from Glendora was a pretty good rose for me, but the bush looked much more gaunt than yours. I have a feeling these roses like more cold and wetness than I can provide. The rose I like best is Ispahan - it embodies the old rose look for me. Thank you for these wonderful photos. Ingrid |
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| My favorite Damask roses are Ispahan and Leda. Those are beautiful pictures of those Celeste! Portlands do well for me and stay in bounds and repeat bloom all summer and fall long. My favorites there are Rose de Resht, Jacques Cartier, Sidonie, Indigo, and Portland from Glendora. |
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- Posted by bellegallica 9 (My Page) on Mon, Dec 14, 09 at 11:56
| I'll put in a plug for a rarely mentioned Damask Perpetual: Pickering's Four Seasons. Hard to find, but Vintage and Rogue Valley have it. The experts agree it's definitely a Portland, but it's true identity is a mystery. Leonie Bell believes it might be Royal Perpetual from the 1830's? (Her article is linked below.) Picture by Rogue Valley Roses |
Here is a link that might be useful: Leonie Bell's article in HRG Rose Letter
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| Correction: The full name is Siren's Keep. |
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| Wow. I'm so sorry about the post I made above, please ignore it. I had so manty tabs open and accidently replied to the wrong thread. Sorry! I enjoyed reading this thread though. |
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| My favorites among the repeat blooming Portland roses are INDIGO, JACQUES CARTIER (aka Marchesa Boccella) and YOLANDE D'ARAGON. All are vigorous, grow well on their own roots, and have phenomenally fragrant blooms. Of these my favorite has to be Jacques Cartier. It is everything an old garden rose should be, and a perfect representative of the class. Indigo on the other hand is more like a repeat blooming Gallica. Still beautiful and worth having. Be forewarned that Yolande d'Aragon is a massive grower, but on the plus side the canes are only lightly thorned. I've tried twice to grow COMTE DE CHAMBORD but each time the band sized plant died on me. I know one rosarian in zone 4 who could grow it and he loved it, so I think it must have something to do with my particular soil and climate. Amongst the once blooming Damasks I've admired MME. HARDY and LA VILLE DE BRUXELLES for years, but have absolutely no experience with either (I don't "do" once bloomers). I've held off on QUARTRE SAISONS and her mossy white sport because from what I've seen in pictures they have nasty thorns. I avoid hyper thorned roses. |
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