Return to the Antique Roses Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Help me ID this China/Tea?

Posted by Resolute_Noir 11 (tropical) (My Page) on
Thu, Dec 5, 13 at 9:24

Here's a new rose that came home with me a week ago. It's pretty fragrant with a scent that's almost like cream with a hint of spice. It looked like a Tea at first but its flowers don't arch too much so I'm unsure of which class this one falls into.


The plant. The foliage is quite noticeable in this photo.


Globular buds. More foliage up close too.


Loose Bud. The blush pink is more noticeable here.


Fully Opened Flower. Looks more cream now but the pink is still there but it's subtle.

I wasn't able to take a good photo of it but it has a few red prickles that are curved downwards.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Mmmmm, very pretty. I'd say tea or hybrid tea.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Funny...I was thinking that it looked like 'Souvenir de la Malmaison', which is a Bourbon-Tea.

:-)

~Christopher


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

It does look like Souvenir de La Malmaison. It also has big and long-lasting blooms. The pink fades on my flowers though, making them look more cream as they open. Does SDLM do that too?


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 5, 13 at 18:14

Mine is still a baby, but the pink on it didn't last very long. It starts out just like the pic of the opening flower you posted, and finishes just like the last pic.

This is how mine came in April 2013, with that big gorgeous flower on it. The color is pretty accurate on my screen.

 photo 931342_10151407725342285_1796031225_n.jpg


This is about as pink as mine gets, then it fades as it completely opens.

 photo 600161_10151472475292285_60234352_n.jpg

I think the fading is accelerated by warm temperatures, so I'd expect mine to be more pink in the first flush of the year, fading more slowly as it opens. But I'll have to wait until next year to know for sure. In any case, I think of SDLM as more white blushed with pink than actually pink.

:-)

~Christopher


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Christopher, I'm just looking at a vase filled with SdlM blooms and they are solid pink all the way through. Even in the heat of summer, the flowers on the bush stayed pink, although I seem to remember when the rose was younger it paled in the heat, but not this year and I believe also not last year. I was surprised since so many people said theirs faded to a lighter color in the heat.

The foliage on Resolute's plant does not look typical for SdlM and actually neither do the flowers; they're not cupped enough and the center of the flower is not the same. It certainly is a gorgeous rose, though.

Ingrid


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

I'm sorry -- I don't know what this IS, but I am pretty sure it is NOT Souv de la Malmaison. (See below)

The bloom form is different, but look principally at the shape of the leaves, and their texture, and look at stipules ...

I could think this might be an early HT -- or some Tea -- or or or ...

Jeri


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Yes.The leaves have noticeable veining on them and are more pointed and dark green.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 5, 13 at 23:27

To me the leaves on this mystery rose look very modern HT and not any kind of OGR. I don't know which one but I think this is a modern HT and not a Tea or China at all.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

That's why I had my doubts Seil. The blooms do look a bit OGR-like but it does not nod too much like Chinas and Teas. It's quite fragrant for a regular HT sold here though, which are mostly scentless.

Also, another tidbit, it's own-root and I see multiple stalks coming out from one point on the ground.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

I also think this is not an old rose. Maybe an Austin? If I look at the foliage -- it's not (for an immature plant) unlike that of Winchester Cathedral.

Take a look at St. Swithun. And particularly at Cymbeline.

Jeri


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Yup, that's what I thought--modern leaves, bud & early bloom-- HTish, fully opened bloom--rather old fashioned--early HT/bourbonish--or is it a "modern reproduction"

Just my ignorant impression--very pretty rose. I enjoy these rose puzzles. Someone always points out tiny details I overlooked so I have to run outside & check my plants (like the Chrysler Imperial/Crimson Glory puzzle on the "ID this old crimson rose " thread.
(maybe it's OK or Mirandy!)


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

I think so, too. And I enjoy the puzzles, too. Even if I don't have an answer, they're still fun to mull over.

Anyway, looking at it, I think the rose in question here looks a LOT like 'Cymbaline.' (It's rarely as pink as the blooms I posted.) But of course, it could as easily be some other thing that I'm not familiar with.

Jeri


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

The stems are too long to be Souvenir de la Malmaison.
The color looks cream vs blush pink.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

I dunno - i actually seriously considered Hume's Blush (or odorata or Spice). You may all have a good laugh but the leaves didn't even scream modern to me either.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

The pedicles are as thin as a Polyantha.
That's what I'm thinking...

Lux


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

I also thought Hume's Blush, The Laos Form on HMF looks quite like it. Consider how close the Philippines is to Laos makes it all the more likely.

I don't think it's Cymbeline though. I can't describe the scent as something like myrrh at all. It's like creamy with a hint of tea.

This post was edited by Resolute_Noir on Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 0:12


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

I got a picture of a bloom that's near to fading a two days ago. The blooms stayed on the plant for a long time actually, I had to pull them off since most of the petals were already drying out.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

This is complete speculation, but how about a modern shrub rose with some Wichuriana in its ancestry, and possibly a descendent of 'New Dawn'? I may be influenced by the flower color. I too am baffled by the veining of the pointed dark leaves and by the fat buds.
Melissa


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Is the rose "own root"? If so, it reminds me of the 1895 HT named Antoine Rivoire, which I grew some years ago. My only hesitation is the bloom size. Your photo shows the bloom looking small. I'm far from an expert but just my 2 cents worth.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Yes, it is own-root. The flowers are small because it's a young plant.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

The pics of the buds and blooms and bluish foliage look a lot like my Spice. Is yours thornless? Lou


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

It's nearly thornless. I've seen one or two red hooked prickles so far on one of the stems.


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

I've had Spice for some years and the flowers are not nearly as well-formed as those shown here, much looser and with not nearly as many petals. Spice has a peppery fragrance. Mine is not thornless by any means, but the thorns are small and moderate.

Ingrid


 o
RE: Help me ID this China/Tea?

Hmmm... so it's not Spice either. I'm starting to think this a new rose altogether and that it's yet to be named.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Antique Roses Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here