Gasp! Belinda's Dream!

Belinda's Dream in my mild damp climate will often have every bud in a flush ball and rot, while the unsprayed foliage turns brown and yellow with some disease, possibly cercospora spot. But the post above from Texas is the first critical one I've seen from a hot climate.

I have to believe that Belinda's Dream likes a mild but dry climate since for me it's disease-free and every bloom opens. I don't know that many roses exist that aren't dogs in one place or another, while being a roaring success story in its favorite place. As long as we choose roses that do well in OUR gardens, that shouldn't really be a problem. I would no more plant a gallica than I would climb Mount Everest, even though I think many of them are absolutely gorgeous and so historic.

Ingrid

nastiest rose?
any rose that rips a favorite dress. You would think by now I would have remembered not to ever wear a silk or linen frock in a rose garden, where prickly canes seem to reach out and tear long gashes.
Do the roses call me Dummy?
Sickliest 'Rust Cup' award, in my garden went to;
' Baron de Bonstedden' a red Hybrid Perpetual. This plant appeared as if it were assembled from rust, like a madmans dream of modern sculpture. The rosebush defoliated and never produced a single bloom. and I so badly wanted a healthy red H.P., eventualy I found a few.
Second place 'sickly rose cup' winner goes to M.I.P. and M.Ernst Calvat' which was plagued with regular mildew which I rarely see on roses here, powdery mildew, blackspot and rust, the entire demonic quadratic foliage curse.

Lux

While I have grown Paul Neyron in the past, even at its worst it couldn't compete in sheer ghastliness to the biggest eyesore I've ever grown, the floribunda Europeana. Europeana came highly-recommended, it was supposed to do well in Southern California. I had high expectations which were permanently dashed. The reason? It looked like a flocked Christmas tree 12 months out of the year it was so heavily covered in mildew. It's first, last, and middle name was UGLY! Plus it had no discernible fragrance to the measly flowers it produced--not that it was worth getting a nose close enough to inhale a lung full of fungus. Even more frustrating was that all its neighbors looked terrific. One was Rose de Rescht, which was constantly in bloom, smelled divine, and had beautiful clean foliage. Another was Little White Pet. Covered itself almost non-stop with sprays of the most charming small white pompoms with a very sweet scent. Then that beastly Europeana marred the landscape. Horrid excuse for a rose. Hateful thing then had the gall to look gorgeous in pics on the web..

First runner-up to Europeana would have to be Dr. Huey. Simply hideous. Leaves perpetually curled up in death spirals due to mildew, although never as thick as on Europeana. Areas void of mildew were blasted with rust on the bottom and with zigzag patterns of rose mosaic virus on top. Ugly, shapeless flowers with a color combo I don't like. This rose truely deserves to be flame-throwered out of a garden!

Poor Paul Neyron only manages to take third against far more horrid competition. Badly-virused from ROYAT, and a rust-bucket of the worst order, it did in fact have somewhat pretty flowers whenever it managed to get up sufficient strength to bloom. Fragrance was actually very nice, old rose, and strong. Alas, it struggled along for about 15 years before it passed away. On the other hand, its offspring, Schoener's Nutkana, is the very picture of health, less than a mile away at the Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Garden. Beautiful clean foliage, and not a sign of rose mosaic virus. So I wonder if its parent, free of virus, might also perform well in this area?????

Then there is a rose I have a love-hate relationship with. Napoleon, a china. When it blooms, the flowers are oh so lovely, delightful swirls of pink that change color depending on air temperature/amount of intense sun. BUT it only has bloomed twice for me this year, with big gaps in between, and it drinks more water than just about any rose I've ever had. This one is a huge plant I bought at Eurodesert in the spring. It's leaves showed only a hint of what was to come in my garden, but I wanted to try it since chinas are supposed to do well in Southern California. The leaves were a little puckered (no dusting of white though) in the heat of Morongo Valley, but in my garden, the whole upper-third of the plant is coated in mildew, all along the canes and up to and covering the flower buds (when there are any). That's from spring, all through the baking heat of summer here, and into the fall and beginning of winter. I tried various fertilizers and feeding regimens, watering, spritzing the leaves with water or not, all made not the slightest difference. And without flowers to distract me from those ugly, crinkled white leaves...well, ick. Then he redeems himself when the flowers show up. Beautiful! And when he blooms he blooms A LOT! So what to do? Keep him or discard?

Melissa

Keep him Melissa. The plant is still under a great deal of stress. He lost the majority of his "small intestine" when he was dug up, so he's still producing a root system to absorb nutrients as our small intestines do. Water and nutrient stressed plants have inhibited immune systems. He'll probably be MUCH better once there are enough roots under the remaining plant. How much better, I couldn't tell you as I've frequently also had mildew issues on Chinas in Santa Clarita, Granada Hills and here in Encino, also. Kim

That said, if Napoleon is, as Dr. Wang Guoliang suggests, a form of, or closely-related-to Old Blush, it just may be a problem mildewer. I wouldn't attempt it here.

But I DO think I'd give it time to build roots, and see. Gardening requires a LOT of patience, and your inland area might be better for it.

Jeri

Strangely, Carnation never, ever mildewed although in my former garden Old Blush was never caught without it.

My nastiest, ugliest rose was probably Huilito, a rose which bloomed rather often in a lackluster way and and had small but vicious thorns all the time. It simply had no charm even though it had no disease. The flowers never seemed to open properly and were completely shapeless, the bush had long, lanky, thorny canes and it had no idea whether it should be a bush or a climber. None of these factors alone seem truly horrible but, taken together, it made me want to kill it - and I did.

Ingrid

'demonic quadratic foliage curse'.....I am stealing that!

Rosette de Lizey. Thrips magnet. Doesn't bloom a lot. Canes die and leave it looking ragged. It's coming out this winter and I'll find a nice shrub rose to replace it with. I saw a beautiful one in a yard nearby and need to stop by and ask the people what it is.

Never having seen or heard of watsoniana, I had to look it up on HMF and found this scathing comment:

Watsoniana was lovingly described by the great English garden designer Gertrude Jekyll: "There are not many Roses that are distinctly unbeautiful, but this may certainly be said of R. Watsoni, a curious plant from Japan. It has small, mean colourless flowers in rather shapeless trusses that have the appearances of being stunted or blighted; the leaves are twisted and attenuated, and their set and action have an aimless character; they also look as if some enemy has been at work upon them or as if they had been passed through boiling water. "

I can't wait to see it.

Anyone else notice that the pictures of this rose on HMF are mostly of the leaves and NOT the blooms? That has to to tell you something about it's appeal right off the bat!

Tastes have changed since Gertrude Jekyll, I guess, as there are sure a lot of nurseries listed on hmf that carry it. " a lovely arching mound of fine, willow-like foliage, whose texture adds much to the mixed border or to the rose garden" as Vintage says.

And what about plain ole multiflora, the badlands home of the outlaw mites?

The most disappointing rose I have ever grown was Bayse's Purple, a hybrid rugosa whose photo showed the best colored blue/purple rose I had ever seen. Although it was single, not my favorite flower form, I ordered it in a two gallon pot at considerable expense.

It grew with little vigor, put out very small single flowers, much smaller than they were reported to be, and the color was dead common mauve, so different from the color of the photo that it amazed me. It was shovelpruned before making it through its first growing season.

About Bayse's Purple, I grew it because of the plant I saw in Oregon at Heirloom Roses. It was really impressive there. It had that dark purple color and the plant was very vigorous. Here it puts out a few flowers in the spring. They're the right color. Most of the year though it's rather ugly. I have a lot of room so I let it go on. You can see though what a difference climate makes.

Basye's Purple required a while to settle in the old garden, but it did and the colors were amazing! When you cut through the canes, it resembles a cross section of a purple onion. Even the pollen was dark colored. I only got a few seedlings out of it, and then only as pollen parent. The only rose it ever pollinated was Yellow Jewel, Ralph Moore's yellow mini. Every seedling took three years to flower. All were terribly thorny, of low disease resistance and all were white and single. Rather disappointing. I'd hoped it would take off and mingle in with R. Fedtschenkoana. I thought those two flowers would be amazing together, but it would never cooperate. Kim

I received a beautiful plant of Basye's Purple with lovely flowers and was thrilled. I planted it, and it instantly developed a death wish, growing backwards, never flowering again and finally sighing its last breath.

Ingrid

Particularly here in the desert south west, Basye's Purple should be budded on Dr. Huey. It's been determined through enzyme tests to be pretty much pure Rugosa and that type of rose just hates hot alkalinity. Keep it in a can in artificial soil and it can be spectacular. Kim

Kim, the one I had was on its own roots, and it behaved more or less like Ingrid's. Maybe, had it been budded on Huey, it might have had a chance, but as it was . . .

I agree, though, that bloom was something special.

I wonder if the plant that Rootman had was not actually Basyes Blueberry, rather than Basyes Purple. That would explain the color. I can't imagine "B--Poiple" ever being mauve.

Jeri

Someone passed one on to Bob Edberg when he was at Limberlost, which he then passed on to me. That plant turned out to be plain old Rugosa rubra. It was a long time before I obtained the "real" Basye's Purple. I'd seen it flowering in Miriam Wilkins' garden when I visited her years ago. I had to have it based upon that flower. Antique Rose Emporium wasn't offering it at the time, nor was anyone else. When I took the Heritage entourage to Descanso to collect material to propagate for the Heritage, Mary Brosius permitted me to dig a sucker from theirs which was sprouting in the grass path. That was the right one and I wanted it to flourish, but it didn't like Newhall any better than any other Rugosa or close relative.

It could be the one in question is also a misidentified rubra. Kim

Ingrid, thanks for the description of Huilito. That has been on the "maybe try someday" list for a while. I don't think I'll be trying it.

Oh gosh, something must be wrong with me! I really like both R. watsoniana & R. minutifolia...then again, I always like roses that are interesting and different from the norm.

I have 2 roses that are competing for the ugly award (but for different reasons)...

First is Bella Roma, which I can't get to grow to save my life!! It's grafted, but still won't take off and only put out two blooms all summer, which were dead by the end of the day! I'll give her one more year...then out with the shovel!!!

Second is La Rubanee. In two years she has grown about an inch (she's now a whopping 6 inches tall...wow!!) and has some kind of crud all over her leaves...oh ya, and never has she bloomed...but I'm trying to be patient with her! (and just now looking at her synomins on HMF, apparently I have ordered her AGAIN under Belle des Jardins, not realizing it was the same rose -wonderful!)

~Tammy

Re the flowers of watsoniana: since it's said to be closely related to multiflora, I expected blooms around the same time. No, didn't happen that way. Bud set was very, very early and four years out of five the buds got frost killed. The fifth year (that's three years total) the blooms are unchanged and insignificant. They are there but the petals are small and the anthers miniscule.

Now Basye's Purple. Sadly, mine was sat on by a bird who'd been over at the muscadine orchard. Said bird pooped. I missed that a volunteer muscadine (or two) were coming up in competition with BP and BP is now barely there. But when BP bloomed (own root) it was really the most regal deep purple I've ever seen anywhere. So I will register fond memories of it, but I don't have the right soil for it (it's not fond of my clay) and the local sand that's readily available is dolomite that's been crushed and sieved.

I second Tessie (Melissa) on what she wrote about Dr. Huey: "First runner-up to Europeana would have to be Dr. Huey. Simply hideous. Leaves perpetually curled up in death spirals due to mildew, although never as thick as on Europeana."

I have to close my eyes when I walk past that foreclosured house, with an overgrown never-blooming Dr. Huey 7' x 7'. Then a few distance away, I have to close my eyes again when I walk past a house with a row of Dr. Huey's in the front porch, pointy canes sticking up. They are like giant weeds here.

*Can't Stop Laughing*

The nasiest rose I have ever seen are the ones online and in GWF that have RRD. Nothing that I have seen can compare to that.

I am new to GWF, less than a month now, have been gardening for 13 years which is still a novice compared to many gardeners on this forum; and many of you are just flat out more knowledgeable. One thing that I find extremely helpful is when members provide more information regarding their geographical location. I live in Las Vegas, zone 9b,much of Phoenix is zone 9b, and a lot of California is too, but few of those CA gardens deal with the issues that those who reside in an arid desert with more than 70 days of 100+ degree temperature that hit 120 or pretty close make adjustments for. If a person in Phoenix posts something about a roses, and I am concerned about heat tolerance and dry climate tolerance; if it is successful there, excluding soil changes I would have to make, I should be able to grow it too. Someone listed their area as zone 9, coastal Ventura. My in-laws reside in Ventura County, and it is damp there many mornings. Very different situation, but this knowledge is so important to help guide us newbies, and it is highly appreciated. I just discovered how to add Las Vegas to my zone description... geesh... it was right there in my face!

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Thu, Jul 11, 13 at 20:37

Antique tea roses in the cold, wet early summer. Ick! I know. I'm crazy to even try to grow this class with any success. These roses do not thank me for dragging them to this climate. But Duchesse de Brabant is actually looking quite sweet and floriferous in the heat of July....

Many varieties of blackspot on a stick...I mean deep red hybrid teas. Deep Secret, Velvet Fragrance, etc. How can roses survive without foliage? But they do, and they return the next year to drop their leaves again. Exceptions: Black Magic and Mr. Lincoln are (knock wood) quite good.

Bourbons, or blackspot on a tangle. Madame Isaac Pereire and such. But oh those fragrant flowers.

Carol

Strawberry

That's so funny about you and rugosas! Location is so much, isn't it? Rugosas were my "go to" roses when I was hired by clients with brown thumbs. My Tamoras are doing quite well, but they'd probably turn all blackspotty and stab you with their vicious thorns if they dropped in to your garden for a visit. >:-)

Carol

Ingrid

The death of Huilito--sounds like justifiable homicide.

So sorry about your Bayse's, though. The flowers are yummy. You'd probably have some bloody run-ins with the tenacious thorns, though. Maybe your rose was just trying to be merciful?

Carol

Hi Carol: Rugosas like acidic soil ... they are known as "beach rose", also do well in sandy soil and drought-tolerant.

Hi Lynn (Desertgarden): I agree with you 100%, another person in HMF said the same ... she wishes people would give info. regarding their soil and climate. I regret not buying Rouge Royal when it was on sale for $8 at Roses Unlimited, since some folks have bad luck with that one. After extensive research, I found that Romanticas as own-roots like alkaline clay & hot temp. and would be OK for me.

Here's how "Tamora" with Rugosa parentage looks like at the alkaline rose park, with lots of rain .... it has a worn-out and faded expression, like "I'm so tired of this blasted alkaline clay!" See picture below:

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Thu, Jul 11, 13 at 19:13

Wedding Cake. Ugly!!!!

Ken

Wedding cake! I've been oh-so-curious about that one. You mean the Ralph Moore cultivar that's sort of like pink, tan, and green frosting, right? What IS it like for you--in person--exactly? Most of the info I've gathered, I've collected from Paul's website.

Carol

Basye's Purple looked absolutely magnificent at the BBG this spring -- I wish I had taken a picture. It has been there at least 20 years and I had never seen it look as good as now.

Glamis Castle: I've mentioned before, several times, my distaste for this wretched thing, but I feel it bears repeating. Such a glamorous name, and such lovely pink buds and white flowers...which smell like a festering diaper-pail. Someone above mentioned "rotting melons" in regard to Abraham Darby, which I think is a VERY apt description of the David Austin "myrrh" scent gone wrong. Some of the "myrrh" roses have lovely scents (to me), like Cymbeline and Tamora, but GC is nothing less than revolting. I stupidly placed a flower of GC into a vase on the table for Thanksgiving, which I had to remove because the stench was wafting. "Diaper Scent" isn't exactly what I want my dinner guests to associate with my dining room.
It also has HORRIBLE thorns, and in my climate, EVERY SINGLE LEAF was covered in blackpot by early June, followed by 100% defoliation (and that same thing happened to TWO friends of mine who grow GC in a completely different area). I have never grown any other rose which did that. It's currently sitting dead-center in a bed with lupines, penstemon, Monarda, rose geranium, Canterbury Bells & cranesbill, looking ugly and bare and vicious. I hate it and I can't IMAGINE why it was ever put into commerce. If I were an heir to the real Glamis Castle, I'd sue D. Austin for defamation of character. On the other hand, it would be a perfect specimen for a Morticia Addams border. Hideous!

Hi zjw727: I broke out laughing at your poetic rant on Glamis Castle. Someone in the Roses forum described Austin "Gentle Hermione" as baby-poop stinky breadth scent. I think the name should be changed to "Gentle Hemorrhoids".

Right now my Paul Neyron at least has some leaves whereas it's neighbor, Old Blush, has defoliated.
Canes look good too. We don't get rust here or much mildew so I don't know how bad it can get.

Carol---On wedding Cake, I bought it thinking it would be a good "novelty" rose for the garden. I actually kept it for 2 full years in Fl. To me, it was flat out ugly. Everyone that saw it said the same thing. The color of the petals (?) was a dirty pinkish nasty green. And the petals themself looked like someone took plastic strips, heated them up to warp them and just crammed them all together. I had NO problem snatching that sucker out of the ground and putting another Louise Estes in that spot. But what is ugly to me might be unique and beautiful to someone else. Thus the saying, "different strokes for different folks".

Wedding Cake I think is one some people will find interesting and others ugly.

I would love to have one just for that...hmmm interesting factor.

I checked "Wedding Cake" in HMF. It looks like either an animal pee on it, or did a dump on it ... horrible!

BTW, my Paul Neyron here is so fussy that I renamed him "Paul Moron". I'll kiss the earth if I get a 2nd flush.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 12:48

Bayse's curled up its toes & died slowly in my hot humid climate with alkaline soil. But I did get to see a few of those astonishing colored flowers.

I have a special loathing for Mermaid. I planted her under a small tree & wrapped the canes around the trunk. The plan was to help protect the doves that nested there from the damned squirrels who regularly ravaged nests & ate the babies. Then I picked up a fledgling who had fallen & that cursed rose had ripped through its delicate skin all the way to its crop & I had to euthanize him. Boy, I sure did the doves a big favor :-( Ripped out that rose & felt guilty ever since.

Poor fledgling! My Mermaids have a couple of new nests in them every year which is one reason I like them. They have ripped my flesh, though.

Anne

Thank you, Bluegirl for the info. about the squirrels destroying bird nests. I put bread slices for the birds to eat. My husband looked out and saw a piece of bread up the bush, in a bird nest ... the squirrel brought it there.

I compiled a list of the most notorious roses. Some of them are so bad that I have to use aliases. See below:

Grimace Castle, nominated by zjw727

Paul Moron, nominated by Camp

Gentle Hemorrhoids, nominated by several

Welding Cake, nominated by Ken

Dr. Phooey, nominated by Tessie

BP (Basyes Purple) and Rugosa Wrench - both dislike alkaline clay.

Mermaids: bird-stabber, flesh-ripper, very evil !!

Any other nominations?

Yes, Strawberry, I nominate: New Dread, also ripper of flesh and clothing, breaker of arbors, the always needer of pruning, and absolute refuser to bend to the will of the human owner--me.
Diane

Ha! Ha! Oh, those names are so funny but true.

Don't forget these two: Octothello and Gertrude Jekyll & Mr. Hyde (thorn-wise). And these two: Black Spotarra and Velvet Fungus (disease-wise).

:-)
Carol

If you mean New Day, Nana, I have to agree. It's mighty thorny. However one that's even thornier, believe it or not, is Falling in Love. It's armed with multitudes of BIG vicious thorns! I had Snowfire and thought that was bad until I got FiL! The bloom is gorgeous though...

HaHa Straw! Love your aliases. Yeah, I was shocked to learn that squirrels were such intense bird predators. I personally had them clean out dove & cardinal nests of babies. A friend even witnessed them killing baby blue jay chicks before she could stop them. did some research to see how common it was & read that they are a major cause of bluebird chick fatalities, too. Little creeps.

It's hard to believe that beautiful rose is armed with big, nasty thorns, Seil. That's not truth in advertising. Diane
PS-Exquisite photo, Seil.

My Abe Darby has a sweet fruity smell but my soil is alkaline. Glamis castle was very bad smelling indeed and thorny and runty.

I wanted Jaques Cartier to grow for me so much but every spring the frosting pink flowers had great big proliferations in each center. It broke my heart. It was not the nastiest rose ever, but it was the most disappointing along with the semi double orange I received instead of Heaven on Earth. Someone said to try patience and see if it would outgrow it, but it never gave me anything but the scrawny orange flowers. Finally, I gave up.

Usually my SdLM is looking fine, but in the wet year of 2012, it looked wretched indeed and I wouldn't like to live with it if it was always like that. Same goes for Madame Issac P.

Jacques Cartier I know folks love it for me it's always been like soggy kleenex not my idea of a good time. Georges de Cadoudel an octopus Bourbon poorly formed blooms that were often frying on the edges before they completely opened.

My Jacques Cartier (Jack Partier) likes to party with non-blooming canes. Very stingy here. My husband thought that it was a giant weed ... I got rid of it.