I forgot to mention that my friend down the street has an othello on it's own roots and it is less of a monster and seems to bloom more with less sun than mine gets. I am thinking of going with an own root plant myself after watching his.

glamis castle has done nothing for me
and I think Christopher Marlow is insipid - don't know how I ended up with 3!

Pretty much all first year... so time will tell. For now:

Loves Me:
The Prince (Fragrance! Color!!!)
Jude the Obscure (Fragrance! Form!)
William Shakespeare 2000 (Fragrance! Color! Form!)
Sister Elizabeth (Bloom Machine)
Charles Darwin (Best Yellow)
Tamora (Great Scent)
Winchester Cathedral (Bloom Machine)
Comte de Champagne (Great Scent, Lots of Blooms)
Eglantyne (New, but love at first sight)
Moleniux (The first rose that REALLY smelled like TEA to my nose)

Indifferent:
Queen of Sweden (Pretty new, we'll see next year)
St. Cecilia (I love the scent, stingy).
Heritage (would have been in the Love group because of growth and bloom, but got mildew and rust... so obviously doesn't quite love me enough).
Tess of d'Urbervilles (Needs time)
Noble Antony (Moved it, check back next year)

Hates Me:
Graham Thomas (Boring, stingy)
Gertrude Jekyll (We'll see this year. So far, stingy... thorny... and I can barely smell the supposed incredible fragrance!)
Teasing Georgia (I hate it, the wimpy stemmed so and so)
Cottage Rose (I'm going to summer prune it HARD, bloomed well in spring and then NOTHING).

Loves Me: Graham Thomas
Golden Celebration
Molyneux
Teasing Georgia
Symphony
Graham Thomas
Francine Austin

Hates Me: English Garden
The Prince (but I wish he did love the color)
Abraham Darby
Tamora
Fair Bianca

:: completely infatuated with me:

Mary Rose (super bloomer, although in the fall I must return the favor by pruning off BS and PM)
Carding Mill (love me love me)
Brother Cadfael (orgasmic)

Jude the Obscure (after I pulled up the ivy and tree roots around it in a 4 foot radius, can't get it's yellow paws off of me)

Benjamin Britten
Ambridge Rose (after being put in a new pot and plied with TLC)

:: completely indifferent to me with an upturned nose:

Heritage (once a beautiful bloomer, now won't give me the time of day as it sends up stalks 12 ft high with no blooms)
Kathryn Morely (beautiful blooms - when it wants, tells me stay away in no uncertain terms with those prickly thorns)
Sweet Juliet (magnificent bloomer the first year, now it just blooms leaves and more leaves. needs a good hard pruning i suspect)
Abe Darby (lovely blooms, too large for it's canes. BS magnet)
Geoff Hamilton (lovely, but blooms erratically)

:: once scorned lovers now out to get me:

All the ones I ordered from Chamblees 2 yrs ago.
Othello (tried to kill me with its thorns, gave away to a poor unsuspecting rose lover)
St Cecilia (yucky, sticky, plagued with some sort of bloom killing mite and aphids galore)

Riku, please explain the morphing thing. It seems to me just the way I talk which may well be Mid-western although I took a jargon indicator test that located you according to your idioms and pronounciations--straight out of the deep south and Granny came from Georgia, a long time ago. I thought raspberries originated in the Bronx...
sign me linguistically confused...
la

The intangibles are the picture in my mind of our poetess-in-residence having a bad reading in her garden trying to soothe a hostile heathen crowd of intransigent Austins who only "make raspberries and other rude noises at me" ... it is just a hilarious description to me of rose malcontents and at work could be used to describe with class a very bad meeting result when delivering difficult news. "Temporary morphing" meant a perceived change in style to me - all compliments I assure you.

Let me qualify my message:
Location: SF Bay area, cooler, some fog, lots of trees and shade. Recipe for Austin disaster.

Loves me:
Jude the Obscure
Gertrude Jekyll - I have a bipolar relationship with her. Incredible blooms, fragrance, etc. Unfortunely she throws out canes with lots of thorns.
Golden Celebration - first year, done well thus far.
Sharifa Asma - nice set of blooms and she smells good. Just wish she were healthier.

Hates me:
Abraham Darby - definitely does not like the shade. BS and stingy with the blooms.

Any opinions on Pat Austin? My wife is crazy about her complexion.

I like Austins in other gardens better than my own.
though I do respect our "Mary Rose" for blooming from March through December, near San Francisco, Ca, where H.T. roses bloom from late April through Oct.

All the pink Austins appear much of a muchness to me, 'cept for "Mary Rose" which has a lovely growth habit and it's pink color of bloom doesn't fade here.

I do thank him for bringing back a traditonal rose shape in a big way.

Love: Mary Rose" my favorite of all his pink roses.
I dislike roses with upright growth habit so "Tamora" is not one of my favorites.
I was a little miffed when I read his roses described as "continually blooming" because I live where China and Teas far outbloom every Austin rose.

Dear Mr. Austin, please hybridize Tea roses for continual bloom.
Love, Luxrosa

Luxrosa, my 'Heritage' blooms as much as my tea roses do. You may not personally like 'Heritage' (I love it), but in my garden, it pumps blooms out constantly.

Randy

This is the reason that if someone really likes a rose, they should try it in their own garden. What is considered a dawg in one garden is a favorite in someone elses. I love the Austin roses and if they would grow as well for me as they do further north I would have a lot of them. Even in my climate there are Austins that perform well.

In my hot humid garden the Austins that love it here are

Pat Austin
Abe Darby
Prospero
Cressida
The Knight
Graham Thomas

The ones that didn't like it here or I didn't like

Tamora
Molineux
Ambridge rose
Sharifa Asma (was badly virused)

I love the blooms on The Yeoman but I've had it in too much shade so can't really judge it until it's had some time in it's new sunnier location.

None of these are no spray roses in my climate but Pat Austin and Graham Thomas seem a litte more disease resistant than the others.

Carol

Judith/Alameda, could you point me to the original thread of Sir Edward Elger? I tried to search it but no luck.
Thanks!

The name of the thread was "Question About Sir Edward Elgar" and I cant find it either! Looked on both Roses and Antique Roses forum. I started it not long ago, it should still be fairly new and easily found. I saved all my posts from that.....is there anything I could forward to you or info I could provide from that thread? Never had this happen before......
Judith

Thank you Riku, I just wanted to hear you say more nice things--poetesse purrs with wide Cheshire Cat grin or cream on the whiskers yet to be licked. I love the way some of us cannot bear the idea that a rose may not like us and just will list them as roses I don't like, roses I am iindifferent to and roses I adore, absolutely sure that roses have no feelings and have no opinion about one gardener or another. Well I for one am dead sure they have feelings, quirks, dislikes, grudges and affinities. but what do I know...
la

Here it is

Here is a link that might be useful: Sir Edward Elgar

All my roses were planted late summer '05 and show their true character this season. But thus far, here are the categories:

Loves me
Pat Austin
Molineux
Prospero
Ambridge Rose
Graham Thomas
Charlotte

Indifferent to me
Comptes de Champagne
WS2000 (indifferent, but may be warming up)
Abraham Darby
Lilian Austin
Tamora
Jude the Obscure (may be warming up)

Hates me
Fair Bianca (I think she may commit suicide rather than stay with me)
Redoute/Mary Rose (sport) covers itself in PM

Anne in So Cal

buford, can you post a picture of your Perdita? Somebody told me that it could be the id of my mystery rose.

Cactus Joe, does A Shropshire Lad bloom more than once? Your photo is gorgeous! I am interested in a few of the older Austins - Cymbaline, Proud Titania, Ellen.......any opinions on these? D. Austin doesnt like Cressida, and this is one of my very favorites.
Judith

As to my all time favorite Austin, the Mary rose has been through three moves over 15 years and she never fails to impress with her blooms and fragrance. She gets a little Black spot, but I don't spray much. My least favorite is Falstaff; she's just too fussy for me, and she never blooms well.

OMG...That Shropshire Lad Masterpiece of Cactus Joe makes me faint every time. BEEEEAUUUTIFUL!!!

Jerome

Luanne, I think you're absolutely right about roses having their own opinions on us as well. I brought Evelyn home last summer, potted, and pruned her as I planted her (into a beautiful hole, I might add). She took so much offense at the pruning that she's hated me ever since. Not sure why as I only took off the sickly looking leaves and stems but there you have it. Hopefully, she'll make it through the winter and recover this spring. I'm really rooting for her.

Sharifa Asma and The Prince both seemed to love me and my gardening space, they both took off. Fair Bianca had a tough summer but I don't think that it was a sign of hatred, but more of discontent with her position in the middle of the dog's path through my garden :) She will have a new spot, and a new start next Spring! Molineux hasn't even bloomed yet, but we'll see this year - he needs some time.

I'll be getting Happy Child, and possibly Tess of the D'Urbevilles this Spring and I hope they'll be happy here.

I wouldn't take it personally until her Spring bloom this year. That is her best one and she blooms much less in summer and fall. I'm betting she comes back like gangbusters this Spring.Molyneux is a great performer for me, so much so that the only reason I can think of for not adoring him is that he's just so dependable, perhaps even boring...if only he had more fragrance...
funney what we love isn't it and even funnier what loves us.
It isn't just the Austins, I could grade all my roses this way...too much confrontation there and I never would get the rest of the pruning done.
la

Judith/Alameda,

Cymbaline is one of my favorite DAs for it's cool silver pink color and lovely bloom form. It's a two year old own-root, now about 5'X 5'.

Colleen

I only have 4 Austins, all new last year, so we'll see how they do this year.

Last year all were terrific. The first three were bare root from DA. The GJ was potted J&P from Lowe's.

Jude - WOW. Plenty of healthy, huge, fragrant, and incomparably beautiful blooms. Love the big, egg-shaped open cups, with supernaturally elegant shadings. Quick rebloom until late in the season when it started throwing out octo-canes. Got more comments than any other rose in my garden, even with heavily laden Bourbons in full flush. People couldn't believe it was a rose. Intoxicating grapefruit fragrance. Put it where people can catch a whiff.

Comtes de Champagne - Simply elegant, open-cup semi-double. Again, the shadings of color are spectacular IMO, subtly intense. Bush form is nice and compact. Floriferous. My idea of the perfect "innocent," "pure" rose. I call it my baby. Only downside (not that this matters to me - I love the rose so much) is that yucky musky smell. I really don't get where people are getting honey in this fragrance. A rose maybe not to everyone's taste - I keep trying to get people to appreciate it, but I'm not getting many takers. Healthy.

Tradescant - Not too vigorous, but still manages a very respectable series of flushes, even through hot weather. Not too noticeable in the landscape - maybe would be when bigger - but takes people aback when they do notice. Plushy, velvety, red-black blooms impossibly swirled, almost baroque. Not uniform at all, but maybe this is due to immaturity. Fragrance is rich true rose and maybe a bit spicy. A scary-pretty rose.

GJ - My daughter and I adore this rose. We let it suffer in the pot for a month or so, and it was all I could do to keep myself from throwing it away out of frustration. It became rangy and disease-ridden the instant we brought it home, and needed more watering than a band rose in 100 degree weather. The problem was solved the instant it was sunk into the ground - they don't call it Galloping Gerty for nothing. It begain blooming for us right away, and never quit till late in the fall, even though the blooms were irregular in size, and few in number. She just kept pumping one or two out to keep us at her feet. And what a charming bloom. It is the perfect shade of clear pink, with a justifiably legendary old rose fragrance. We have great expectations for this rose in the coming season.
I have to confess, though. I wanted GJ for a long time, but when I finally acquired her I was a tad let down by the appearance of what I used to think of as the perfect pink rosette bloom, and even by the fragrance in a way. Comte de Chambord, a rose I never wanted overmuch, but picked up at Home Depot last year, stunned everyone with its big, blowsy blooms, incomparably potent old rose fragrance, and constant generous bloom. The pink is not quite so perfect and the foliage is not so attractive, to my eye, but all things considered, CdC (GJ's parent) is probably the superior rose for most people/purposes. Since both are new, it'll be interesting to see if this assessment changes later on.

Overall, I love Austins, and mine have been well worth the extra money...so far. They have a superstar quality that most old roses - as much as I love them - lack. I am kind of thinking of Austins as what you plant for visitors, who may not appreciate the subtlety of a lot of the OGRs. Why, oh why, for instance, does no one comment on my avalanche of smoky purple roses when Cardinal de Richelieu is in bloom? Maybe I'm not setting it off right. But let Jude pop out a few big apricot balls, and people are getting up out of their chair on the patio to go have a look.

Just a few thoughts. Sorry so long.

I have ordered these Austins for 2008:
Carding Mill, Lillian Austin, Leander - already have these and love them, had to have duplicates.

Darcy Bussell
Tea Clipper
Lady Emma Hamilton
Sister Elizabeth
Lady of Megginch

One of my Austins that I would say is indifferent to me is Bengamin Britten. I think I will move him to a sunnier spot, but he is growing well, but an octopus. Blooms sparsly, but I love the color of the blooms. Can anyone tell me what this one might like to perform better?

Carding Mill and Lillian Austin are two of my favorites. The colors are beautiful, they grow well.....love them! They dont have those long canes and bloom regularly.
Judith

Compiling this list takes me through many places I've gardened, from Vermont to Indiana to Ontario and now to Kentucky. There are many older varieties on the list - I guess I started growing them around 1990. I've started to slowly collect some of the newer ones since we've been here, although I am wary of the blackspot pressures we have which keeps me from going all out and collecting them all. I don't spray so I am pretty limited with the Austins. Here are some of my all time favorites (and the dawgs) I either grow now or have in the past:

Love me, love them:

Belle Story
Chianti
Heritage
Pat Austin
St. Cecilia
The Generous Gardener
Tradescant
Windrush

Indifferent, comes up short of adequate, or just boring: (*needs more time to prove itself)

Abe Darby
Ambridge Rose
Claire Rose
Cressida
Ellen
English Elegance
English Garden
Golden Celebration*
Jude the Obscure*
Leander
LD Braithwaite
Lucetta
Mary Magdalene*
Mary Rose
Mary Webb
Perdita
Prospero
Sir Edward Elgar
St. Swithun
Tamora
The Alexandra Rose
The Prince
Winchester Cathedral

Extremely dislike me, ditto them:

Fair Bianca
Gertrude Jeckyll
Glamis Castle
Graham Thomas
Noble Antony
Sharifa Asma (*I really WANT to move this one up the list)
The Squire
WS2000 (*ditto)

And no one lists my poor abandoned beloved Wise Portia. I now have about eight of them. And yes, they took far longer than my antiques to establish and pump out flowers but they have also endured the crazy Southern California weather far better than all the English and French-bred hussies. My own roots (planted a year ago) have exploded from the ground almost as much as my Sharifas and without as much of the pesky rust. WP may not have as powerful a fragrance as SA but it is still lovely. Her flowers may not last very long in the vase but they are ever present on the bush. One of my neighbors (the one who enabled me into two Abe Darbys) calls WP boring but I wouldn't be without her. One thing I have learned with Austins is patience. Portia took years to be a really good plant. My WS 2000, after a year, is just a runty stick that bore maybe four flowers (deeper and slightly sweetier than WP I admit but an errant dog is going to put this one of its misery fast) I will give it another year before giving up on it or my Heritage which is almost as sullen. So much depends on climate and exposure I guess.

How many are willing to try increased knowledge of pruning techniques for Austins that 'Hate' you? - like breaking and French pruning. "Gardening with Old Roses," by John Scarman is a great reference to such techniques.

I would love to know some different pruning techniques - have never heard of the breaking or French methods. Can you explain? I have a Benjamin Britten that grows long canes and doesnt bloom as much as I think it should, and would love to know what to do with it. Any photos?
Judith

If your having trouble getting Gertrude Jekyll to bloom, try cutting it way back. Mine responds nicely to hard pruning. Is covered with blooms in Spring and repeats well in Fall with some between. The Pilgram loves me and i love it, but needs lots of room, it's gigantic. Summers here hot and humid.

Anyone have any thoughts on Bishop's Castle? I just bought it. Is it a large or medium rose?
Judith

I only have one, so far: Golden Celebration. Love the flower, not all that crazy about the plant (black spot, defoliation, JBs).

Will give it awhile longer; also will try just one more (Constance Spry-need myrrh, as gold & frankincense would be covered) before coming to a conclusion.

Sophy's rose is great so far...I suffer through the problems with Abe Darby just to bury my nose in the blooms every so often.

Ronda

Here's a story on Abe. Every year I go to Tea's Nursery in Houston. Across the street there is a large apartment complex with a brick wall around it. All along that wall are roses, shrubs, perennials - well kept. For several years now, there was this beautiful rose - most of them had tags on them, but of course, my luck, not the one I admired. This has gone on for about 4 years now, even took a bloom to a knowledgable rose person, they didnt know thought it might be Evelyn. I went again last Saturday - same deal, several of these lovely roses blooming, fragrant, beautiful. I took one back to Teas, hoping this time someone could identify. Voila! A knowledgable person said - Abraham Darby, without a doubt. I researched - sure enough, it was Abe. I have one young one in the garden, plan to get more. Dont know about problems with this one, but it is so lovely I will just have to plant more. Was thrilled to finally find out what this beauty was!
Judith

Don't have too many and mine are only 2 years at this point but here goes.

Loves:

TAMORA- Smells wonderful and blooms it's fool head off all summer!

Likes:

MARY ROSE - Just getting started on her second year but she has improved with a few more blooms than the previous year.

SHARIFA ASMA - has gotten rather tall and some beautiful blooms just not that many.

HERITAGE- Can't make up it's mind whether to like or hate. Blooms don't last long.

Indifferent:

SWEET JULIET- practically no black spot to speak of and smells like citrus. Few,very few blooms.

Hates:
ABE DARBY- Refused to come out of domancy and eventually died

GERTRUDE JEKYLL- Black spot and one maybe two blooms a season. But oh her blooms were fragrant. Has since been sp'd.

PAT AUSTIN- Although I don't like orangey colored roses I tried this one. She put out two blooms that faced down and then she just up and died.

I have on order Janet and Windemere hope they go into the LOVE category. I want to get more too so this thread will be of some use to me too!

Tammy

I am shocked no one has mentioned Dark Lady. I went to the Rose Society in Shreveport last year and it was the only one really putting out. And was it ever gorgeous!

Most Austins are as indifferent to me as I am to them, in my own garden and elsewhere. My one unrequited love is for Constance Spry who seemed to love me for several years until she broke up with me. She lingers but will probably leave for good one day, much missed. I love Abraham Darby dearly and the feeling is mutual.

Love me: Lillian Austin, Golden Celebration, Jude the Obscure,Eglantyne,Noble Anthony, but I don't like it,Crown Princess Margareta
Hate me: Tamora, Glamis Castle
Indifferent or too new: Jubilee Celebration, Pat Austin, too new,Emma Hamilton, seems not to like many people, Molineux, fear it's BS

Carla

I would like to change my views on Heritage. Ever since I pruned her early in the summer(Jan), she bounced back up again looking healthy than ever:

Today's Pics:

{{gwi:242825}}
{{gwi:328304}}

This rose is sure a keeper. No signs of Mosaic virus - perhaps the virus is dormant. A rose with MV is like someone having arthritic joint problems - you know, the disease that comes and goes.

Lesson learnt: when your roses isn't performing well,perhaps its a signal for pruning!

(Is it just only me? I don't like the new design of photobucket...It looks so confusing when you want to resize the picture.)

Will Shakespear suicided on me immediately.
Winchester Cathedral keeps trying to die
Jude the Obscure remains obscure.
The Claire rose has produced one flower in two years.
The Dark Lady is somewhat more successful.

In the southwest, I gave up on Austins altogether and replaced them with Romanticas, which did very well.

I hope David Austin sees this thread and can make some sense of it.

Graham Thomas
Gertrude Jekyll
Geoff Hamilton
Falstaff

All hated me, and the feeling was mutual. Fortunately, I'm the one with the shovel! :)

Loves me wayyyyy too much:
Teasing Georgia
(I guess she knows she was rescued from the death bed at Lowe's 2 years ago because she is one massive blooming machine. She is, however, extremely thorny, and insists on leaving marks on me.)

Loves me a lot:
Abraham Darby
The Dark Lady
Mary Rose
Heritage
Scepter'd Isle

Loves me:
WS 2000
Huntington Rose
Janet
Bishop's Castle

I don't have any that hate me or even dislike me. Well - the love is mutual, and I ordered these from Chamblees this year: Golden Celebration, The Prince, Pat Austin, another Abraham Darby, Eglantyne, and Portmeirion. :) I sure hope they'll do as well as the grafted ones.

---
Wendy

Too early to tell for Bishop's Castle. I planted it last year and it's doing well and so far appears to be medium size. But last year was the drought, so it may not have grown that much.

I love the blooms and scent. However, it does BS badly.

Someone asked for a picture of Perdita. This was the only one I can find. I was very bad about labelling my pics so I'm not sure, I may have more:

{{gwi:328305}}

I planted lots of Austins last year so many need more time.

Love me,
Graham T
Abraham D (Love
Crown Princess Margareta (Love her always in bloom
Jubilee Celebration (Love this one
Carding Mill
Ambridge ( Looked great in a pot
Scepter'd Isle Really love this one!
Hyde Hall (Bloom Machine have 12 ordered for a hedge
Teasing Georgia
The prince (More roses this color Mr Austin!
William Shakespear 2000
Gertrude J Bloomed good for first year 4 times!
Queen of Sweeden Very pretty lady
Heritage A work horse
Pat Austin (LOVE the changing colors
Brother Cadfael (Became a monster will have to move

Hate me,

The Shepherdess
Eglantyne
A Shropshire Lad
Mary Rose (Will move to more sun
Sharifa Asma
Glamis Castle
The Alnwick
Golden Celebration

Loves me:
- Lady Emma Hamilton
- Pat Austin
- Jude the Obscure
- Crown Princess Margareta (only 2 hours of sun each day, and never stops flowering)
- Emanuel (this one is supposed to have black spots, but it doesn't: it smells delicious and has the prettiest flowers)
- Jubilee Celebration (the first one to develop new leaves)
- Spirit of Freedom (almost as many flowers as Winchester Cathedral)

Indifferent to me:

- Mary Rose (free flowering, but where's the scent?)
- Geoff Hamilton (lots of flowers, but don't really like the color and its lack of scent)
- Winchester Cathedral (gave it up for adoption to my mum last year, who does appreciate twotone roses (white as well as pink)

Hates me:
- Evelyn (never flowered and black spot all over the place)
- Fisherman's Friend (black spot)
- Golden Celebration (no flowers and died of frost)

Love me:

Lilian Austin (glows, no disease)
Molineux (constant bloomer, no disease)
Pat Austin (glows, sweet shaped nodding blooms, no disease)
Prospero (very floriferous, perfect blooms, no disease)
William Shakespeare 2000 (perfect aroma, perfect blooms, no disease)

Hate me: (and therefore gone... )

Tamora (blackspot)
Heritage (blew fast)
Winchester Cathedral
Sharifa Asma (black spot)
The Prince (mildew)
Glamis Castle (mildew)
Redout(blackspot)
Tradescant (mildew)
Charlotte (blew fast)
Sophy's Rose (mildew)
Blythe Spirit (not enough petals)
Falstaff (mildew, octopus canes)
Benjamin Britten (ugly foliage)

I just want to add that 'William Morris' is turning into a large, fragrant, and beautiful rose without my doing much of anything. I may need to start taking the DA roses more seriously and figuring out how to use them well in my garden, with particular attention given to companion plants.

Melissa

Blows kisses my way:

- Brother Cadfael
- Golden Celebration
- L.D. Braithwaite

Turns her back and walks away:

- Gertrude Jekyll (5 years of half formed blooms which WERE few and far between.

- Molineux - just too winter tender. Manages to make it through winter, but just barely and grows to only about 6 inches high. Poor thing, really hates it here.

- Abraham Darby - ditto Molineux

I have quite a few more Austins that I'm just not sure if they'll do well here or not. Here's hoping!! :)

Carol