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| What are the best hybrid musks for colder zones (midwest 5b)? How big would they get? Can they be maintained as stout shrubs? Do they just get winterkilled to the ground and sprout anew every year? Please share your experiences with these hybrid musks: Buff Beauty |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by gardenerzone4 5b (My Page) on Sun, Dec 30, 12 at 8:05
| Does no one grow hybrid musks in Zone 5? I'm thinking of creating a bed of these in a location that gets sun from sunrise to until about 3PM, at the bottom of a slope, so they get moisture and shade protection during the hot summer months. Please let me know how big they will get, and whether this location sounds ideal for hybrid musks. |
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| I grow Hybrid Musks, and love them. Lavender Lassie is very hardy here, it's 8 feet tall and 9 feet wide, a large sprawling shrub; it wants to grow larger and I prune it back to control it. It gets blackspot and drops its leaves, however, this does not diminish vigor or hardiness. It has little to no dieback. I prune to shape it. I grow it as as freestanding shrub, but use mini- trellis or garden stakes to support some of the canes. I have it in a spot where it does not get all day sun. It get sun from morning until about 3 PM. It repeats in late summer/ autumn. The fragance is Old Rose, not as musky as some of the other Hybrid Musks. I don't have roses planted near slopes, so I don't know if there are any concerns with this... drainage issues might be something to consider, but I don't know... |
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| Don't know if my Midwest Zone 6 experience will be any help or not, but I've grown Buff Beauty for years--one of my favorites! At the bottom of a slope? Don't know about that. How good is the drainage? If it isn't good, I wouldnt' plant a hybrid musk there. I'd be afraid the excess moisture would kill it. As far as the bush itself, I let my BB free-sprawl--which means she has far-reaching arching/curving "arms" stretching out in all directions. I'd guess she gets about 5-6 ft tall and maybe 7ft wide. She has a wonderful bloom--she often gets compliments in my garden--but doesn't re-bloom quite as quickly as I'd prefer. She has a few problems with blackspot on occasion--not real bad, by any means, but I have to keep an eye on her after each blooming cycle and occasionally give her a light spray. Mine gets several hours of shade at noon and early afternoon--don't know if that is the reason for her occasional bouts of BS or not. In more sun, she might rebloom faster and have fewer BS problems. Mine is quite hardy, but I don't know how she would fare in your zone. Mine does not die back to or near the ground. The long canes put out a lot of buds in the spring. I trim off any deadwood--there will be some--but basically the long canes with buds continue to form the basic structure of this rose. You have checked helpmefind.com for more info., haven't you? Indispensible source of rose info. See what it says about winter hardiness for Buff Beauty. I wouldn't be without BB--she's a great rose. Kate |
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- Posted by jaspermplants 9 az (My Page) on Sun, Dec 30, 12 at 13:17
| I'm completely out of your zone but thought I'd put in a second good word for Buff Beauty. The hybrid musks don't particularly like my hot, dry climate, I don't think, but I have Buff Beauty and absolutely love the rose. It is a sprawling rose and has blooms and scent to die for. It is one of my most beloved roses. If you have a climate good for hybrid musks, Buff Beauty is a MUST!!! |
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- Posted by harborrose 8a-PNW (My Page) on Sun, Dec 30, 12 at 20:57
| Besides asking here about a rose and checking www.helpmefind, sometimes I can tell the chances a rose might have in my zone by checking what is for sale at a nursery in a similar zone or area to mine. In your case, for example, High Country Roses in zones 4-5 carries a number of hybrid musks. Northland Rosarium in zone 4 (I think, Spokane, Washington) carries some also. Here is a link for High Country Roses, their page on hybrid musks. High Country is a good vendor. I hear really good things about Northland, but I haven't ordered from them yet. I'm linking to High Country as they offer more hybrid musks than does Northland. In my zone 8b climate, mild coastal winters and short summers, Buff Beauty is doing well and Ghislaine de Feligonde is great, although I don't think that helps you a bit :) |
Here is a link that might be useful: high country roses, hybrid musks
This post was edited by harborrose on Mon, Dec 31, 12 at 0:40
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| Here Ballerina, a different musk rose than those you listed, sits at the bottom of a steep hill. The ground then continues to slope away gently. This siting has caused her no difficulties. In fact, I think that this siting probably insures her more constant and needed moisture. Cath |
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| The only problem with being at the bottom of a hill is that cold air flows down, just as water would -- following much the same path to the lowest point, and sort of "pools" there. When we have one of our infrequent freezes, we can trace the path of the cold air down the hillside, where it is marked by frost-burned ice plant, and the occasional frost-killed plant. The last really bad freeze we had, we lost plumerias near the bottom of the garden, and brugmansias froze to the ground, while similar plants further up the hill were un-touched. Jeri |
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- Posted by gardenerzone4 Midwest 5b (My Page) on Sat, Jan 5, 13 at 6:23
| I checked out High Country Roses and am considering getting 3 hybrid musks: Buff Beauty, Lavender Lassie, Ghislaine de Feligonde. But I only have room for two. I was thinking of just going with Buff Beauty and Lavender Lassie and not Ghislaine, b/c Ghislaine seems to be the color of Buff Beauty, only with smaller flowers. Any other thoughts on these three? How would you rate the fragrance of the musk roses? Do they waft when in full bloom? Do the clusters open at the same time? Do the clusters have enough stem to cut indoors for the vase, and do they last? |
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| Lavender Lassie has a beautiful fragrance, with sweet classic rose scent, to my nose, not too musky. The fragrance is intense. The stems are sturdy enough to cut and put into a vase, I don't recall if the blooms open at the same time.... The blooms don't last long in the vase. I think Ghislaine is a once bloomer... |
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| I haven't grown either (yet...they're on order), but I can tell you some differences between Buff Beauty and Ghislaine de Feligonde that I've read about. Yes, the flowers of both are similar in hue, so if you don't want a repeat of a similar color scheme, it might be better to just pick one. But they seem to grow very differently. Buff Beauty (from what I've read from others) seems to be very horizontally-inclined, with rather stiff canes. It "climbs" more in the sense of working well being secured against a fence or wall, but would need some discipline to go up and over something. Ghislaine de Feligonde seems to be more lax in its growth -- canes more flexible. If you want to grow them as large self-supporting shrubs, I'm guessing (and others can offer more experience) that Buff Beauty is the better choice for that, but will need some pruning-discipline to get there. Oh, and from everything I've read, both will repeat, but I can't say if that's a sure thing for your climate. Buff Beauty is half tea-noisette, which possibly means more reliable rebloom, but also possibly making it more cold-tender. The parentage of Ghislaine de Feligonde shows more of a multiflora rambler ancestry, though for both roses, I don't know what the "seedling" parts were in their family trees. :-) Christopher |
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| Hey Christopher, I have BB and Ghislaine and quite true, they do have very different habits of growth although, in my garden, BB is a sprawly shrub which throws long canes whereas Ghislaine grows like a typical multiflora with heaps of fast growing basals which are stiff enough to need no extra support (unlike BB which absolutely needs a post and rail to lounge against). Although they have similar colours at various times during their bloom cycle, Ghislaine fades to pinky white (I actually love the stage of tiny tangerine buds most of all and find the opened blooms a bit meh) whereas BB fades to a fetching pale straw colour which fits in any colour scheme. BB can be kept to a neat 2dimensional plane while ghislaine is quite a bit more fulsome so I think much depends on how you are growing these shrubs and what space is available. |
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| I think Ghislaine is a better plant for the area. I used to live in Ontario on the zone 4/5 border, where I grew both, and I miss my Ghislaine de Feligonde more than anything: a rounded beautifully shaped shrub with not a speck of disease,covered with very large clusters of cheery, nicely shaped, multicolored blooms for a long period. I did not find she repeated, but there was so much bloom for so long it did not matter. Very drought resistant(she was up on a hill where the hose didn't reach and never got watered). On the other hand I never succeeded in growing a really healthy plant of Buff Beauty; she seemed to languish everywhere planted, and never so nice a color as Ghislaine. I tried two plants in two locations before giving up. She may have been discouraged by the cold. I never tried Lavender Lassie, but other HM types that worked well for me in that climate were Marjorie Fair, Ballerina, Clair Matin, Sally Holmes. Can anyone vouch for the performance of Ghislaine de Feligonde in Houston Tx? |
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- Posted by gardenerzone4 5b (My Page) on Sun, Jan 6, 13 at 16:58
| Boy, now I'm more conflicted than ever. I'm still set on Lavender Lassie. But Buff Beauty and Ghislaine--what to do? Second, your comments on using Buff Beauty as a climber has me thinking...I have an area next to a fence that is south facing but in the dappled shade of a willow. I've been wanting to use that section of fence--about 10 foot wide, to support a climber. However, I'm guessing that it only gets about 4-5 hours of sun a day. The advantage is that flowers wouldn't fade too quickly. Can a hybrid musk really handle that much shade? Is the flower of Buff Beauty a lot bigger than Ghislaine's? What about fragrance? What about hardiness? By the way, what does the name Ghislaine de Feligonde mean? |
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| My Buff beauties had individual flowers that were perhaps 2 inches in diameter; individual flowers of Ghislaine are perhaps one inch in diameter. Ghislaine's flowers open bright golden orange, or peachy golden pink, fading through egg yolk yellow, to soft butter yellow to white at the end, clusters usually displaying all these colors over the course of a couple days. BB (at least mine) also fades to white, but has a softer color on opening, and less color range overall. BB has more scent; Ghislaine does not have much, but I found it a stronger plant. |
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- Posted by plantloverkat 9a north Houston (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 13 at 16:58
| Starmade, the Antique Rose Emporium sells Ghislaine de Feligonde. Perhaps you could call them and ask them how they think it would perform here in Houston. |
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- Posted by harborrose 8a-PNW (My Page) on Thu, Jan 10, 13 at 2:28
| I grew Ghislaine in Alabama and am posting a picture to show the color variations on mine there. In my garden there it bloomed well in the spring and had a few scattered blooms the rest of the summer. But I did not see it mature so don't know how mucn more it might have bloomed. It was grown under some pine trees in morning sun only.
You can see its lax canes and "fulsome growth," as Campanula said. Here in western coastal Washington, I planted a band of Ghislaine on the north side of a wall where it does not receive much sun. This one, young as it is, had blooms on it most of the summer and into fall and has been very healthy. I do love this rose. I am growing this one as a mounding shrub as it did not really want to be a climber, I don't think. Or I had to do more training and pruning than I wanted to in order to get it up that pine tree, let's say.... I am growing Buff Beauty on a split rail fence in morning sun. I grew it only a little while in Alabama and it didn't do really well for me there. Here, it seems to be happy, but it is slower to get started. It too is a beautiful rose. When I can't decide I buy them both and grow them in a pot until I know for sure which one I want. And then I learn something else about roses, that way. The cost of a rose is cheap tuition to learn more about what you're doing, I think. Good luck - they are both good roses, and now I want Lavender Lass! |
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