Lynn, that is an absolute beauty! That shade of pink is my favorite and the Vicomtesse has that true "old rose" look.

It's not an old rose, but Austin's Janet is a rose I believe to be underrated. It's a little out of the Austin mold but to me very lovely.

Another sleeper is Souvenir du President Carnot, a beauty that does very well in my hot and dry climate and also lasts very well indoors. Mine was from Vintage but Rogue Valley Roses now also has it. For me disease resistance has been excellent.

Ingrid

Species roses have been an enduring favourite of mine - consequently, I have a slight dread that the very few rose growers who have even a small percentage of these are going to cull their collections - most people in the UK can probably think of a handful of wild roses with the vague idea that these will always be available but without rose enthusiasts, many of these roses are not likely to be available in commerce. I feel it is a dash to preserve a collection of such lovelies as R.nitida, R.gentileana (my current rose of desire), R.mulliganii, R.palustris, R.arkansas and so on whilst I can still get my hands on them. Like most of my plants, I am thinking that growing from seed is probably the only way to go about aquiring a collection....but this will be a long slow project.

Apart from wildlings, I have had a pained relationship with early hulthemias - falling for Euphrates and Nigel Hawthorne (Tigris, less so), way back in the 80s. For years, they were the only hulthemia hybrids to be had...until almost simultaneously, Harkness and Cocker re-invigorated their breeding programme at the same time as Peter Ilsink in Holland, and your own Jim Sproul. Suddenly, hulthemias were everywhere (well, not quite....but certainly a great many more than I had seen for 20 years). Just this last year, I bought a new Harkness (Alissar, Princess of Phoenicea), the amazing Eyes for You and a pink single, similar to Bulls Eye, (a Warner creation, mysteriously unavailable in the UK), called Bright as a Button - all of which are proving to have great health and vigour.

I agree with camps. Species in general are off the radar. People just don't see them in garden centers all that often and also many are once bloomers which seem to be somewhat out of fashion with the majority of shoppers.

I love them! So I have many:

Rosa alabukensis Tkatsch.
Rosa anemoneflora
Rosa arkansana
Rosa arnoldiana 'khirghisia'
Rosa banksiae banksiae
Rosa blanda
Rosa borissovae
Rosa bracteata
Rosa californica
Rosa californica 'First Dawn'
Rosa californica 'Los Berros'
Rosa californica plena
Rosa canina 'Laxa'
R. cantabrigiensis
R. fedtschenkoana
Rosa foetida 'Persian Yellow'
Rosa glabrifolia
Rosa gymnocarpa
Rosa hirtula (on last legs)
Rosa hugonis
Rosa minutifolia
Rosa minutifolia 'Pure Bea'
Rosa nutkana
Rosa omeiensis 'Pteracantha'
Rosa pendulina L.
Rosa pinetorum
Rosa polyantha grandiflora
Rosa primula
Rosa roxburghii
Rosa rugosa 'Alba'
Rosa setigera
Rosa spinosissima
Rosa spinosissima var. altaica (Willd.) Rehder
Rosa webbiana
Rosa woodsii ultramontana
Rosa xanthina (pictured)

Not all the above roses are in Help Me Find, unfortunately. That fine site needs improvement where species roses are concerned. Guidelines for including species roses are inconsistent to say the least.

On order from Greenmantle Nursery for 2014:
Rosa sancta Richard, not Andrews
Rosa soulieana Crépin

On order from Greenmantle for 2015:
Rosa stellata mirifica--Marissa told me the other day she has a nice crop of "babies", there is a waiting list!!!, but if one wants a chance to get one, a deposit would be advisable ASAP to get on the waiting list before all are reserved.

I also want Rosa foetida, Rosa persica, and multiple other species.......

Melissa

Just posted and already some corrections. I also have R. eglanteria, and the pinetorum I have is R. pinetorum 'Beatrice Howitt' (pictured below).

Melissa

As I often start my posts, everything I have is still in the baby stage, being planted only this Summer, but when I was ordering things last Winter, I tried to find some things offered by Vintage but hard to find elsewhere before they closed. I was hoping that as they grow, I could root cuttings and send them to Long Ago Roses (for East Coast rose people) and RVR (for everyone else) to enjoy in the future. My "lesser-known" roses are:

Bourbons
'Mme de Sevigne' (from Long Ago Roses, so already available)
'Mlle Blanche Lafitte'
'Mme Dore'
'Souvenir de Victor Landeau'

Chinas
'Mme Laurette Messimy' (the one from Vintage...like a pastel version of 'Comtesse du Cayla', not the imposter sold elsewhere)

Hybrid Chinas
'Duchesse d'Angouleme' (aka 'Wax Rose')
'Nouveau Monde'

Hybrid Perpetuals
'Georg Arends' (really more like an early HT)
'Pierre Notting' (already available at RVR)

Hybrid Teas
'Night' (aka Lady Sackville)
'Nocturne' VID
'Rose of Freedom' VID

Musks
'Reverend Seidel'

I also got cuttings of 'Rosa fedtschenkoana' and its offspring 'DLFED 3' from Kim Rupert. Only cutting one of the species took, but I did pass on three extra 'DLFED 3', including one to Long Ago Roses. Hopefully, it will do well and Linda Loe can include it in her inventory.

:-)

~Christopher

So many of my roses are off the radar. Here's a few:
Karlsruhe This is a beautiful climber. A Kordes climbing floribunda. It's very doubled deep purply pink.
Mazurka I am so impressed with this rose. It's rather like a shrub version of Eden. In its first year in the ground it never stopped blooming.
E. B. Le Grice Another climber. This is a healthy rose with decent rebloom. I love the white blooms.
Waldtrout Neilson I bought this huge moss from Vintage years ago. It has wonderful big cabbagey blooms in the spring.
Camille Pisarro This was a gift from a friend. it is such a doer, a red and white striped rose with some yellow.
Paul Ploton This is a rambler that has a great fall rebloom.
There are so many wonderful roses in the world.

Oh, I wanted to add that if I had the room, I'd be growing a lot more species and near-species hybrids. For now, I have to rely on the showier OGRs and a few Moderns to provide impact in a small space, while also allowing for diversity.

:-)

~Christopher

Archiduchess Elizabeth d'Autriche grows in my garden.
Definitely off the radar.

Tessies, Rosa roxburghii is gorgeous! Actually I looked up most of the species roses you listed and found that many are heat tolerant plus quiet pretty. I am so unfamiliar with this class of rose. Thank you and Campanula.

Christopher, Mme. Dore is not being propagated by R.U. this year, so the one remaining source has a small plant to use for cuttings. It is beautiful, and obviously under the radar.

Ingrid, Souvenir du President Carnot's blooms are so lovely and delicate.

Poorbutroserich, Ivor's Rose is beautiful. I wish I had the space for a rose of that size.

Mendocino_rose, Mazurka is gorgeous!!!

Lynn

Tessiess, I notice you list 'R. fedtschenkoana'. Kim Rupert was kind enough to send me a few pieces, but only one took root. At some point over the Summer, Kim asked me if I had any extras to share with a member of the RHA to use for breeding, but I didn't. Would you be able to share a piece of yours, if Kim is still looking? His name here is Roseseek.

I first tried sending you a message, but you don't seem to be set up for that on here.

:-)

~Christopher

Titian is a shrub from Reithmuller in 1955. Cliff Orent imported it and I think Vintage may have had it for a while when they had the Eurodesert collection. It is for me a low growing floribunda with gorgeously large dark pink/salmon/purple colors, rapid rebloom and very good disease resistance. It would probably make a large, handsome shrub in warmer climates. Kordes found a climbing sport. Pictures of the sport give a good view of the flowers.

Reithmuller was originally from Germany and he used Kordes to introduce his roses into Europe, so I imagine many of his selections might be hardy to at least Zone 6. It is a shame we can't import from Australia.

Mendocinorose, might you be able to supply cuttings of E.B. Legrice to an American nursery? HFM lists the sport parent, Pearl Drift, as growing in Rhode Island, so if E.B. has similar hardiness, it could maybe be grown by some who can't grow the other Bracteatas.

Here is a link that might be useful: climbing sport of Titian on HMF

Lynn,

What a charming rose the Vicomtesse is.

I would like to mention the Moss Capitaine Basroger that I do not see mentioned a lot. It has lovely shading and a very nice scent and good vigor.

Also, the Sempervirens rambler AdElaide d'OrlEans, possibly the most photogenic rose that I know; it does get huge, though.

Also, the Hybrid Musk Aptos is a great and graceful rose, and easy beyond belief. Repeat blooming, I believe.

I recently acquired the lovely Bourbon climber Kathleen Harrop, a color sport of ZD in a much softer pink. Worth looking for.

One of my personal favorites, though, is the much rarer Bourbon Comtesse de Rocquigny. I actually prefer the blooms to those of SdlM. I cannot address the vigor of this last rose, only the beauty and the scent -- both are spectacular.

Best,

Larry

The only roses I have that would be off the radar, but deserve a wider audience, are Australian. Titian, already mentioned, Marjorie Palmer and her offspring, Alister Clark, and Golden Dawn (love this rose), Sunlit, and Lorraine Lee, which used to be grown widely here.
English Miss, just planted, is very pretty and healthy.
I also love Marie van Houtte and Frau Dagmar Hastrup, neither of which seem to be mentioned often here.
poorbutroserich, I love the photo of Ivor's rose.

Hi Christopher,

Kim and I have already had a private discussion about Fed since he wouldn't be able to share his with others anymore who want it. Yep, I would be glad to share. Especially since mine is apparently rapturously happy in its present location and is suckering away.

My account here is weird. The system crashed when I was setting it up, it only got partially done, and I haven't been able to change anything since. My email account is so old that every marketer on the Internet already has it. lol Thus it won't put me at much risk if I post it here. It is Tessie, at sign, the word supersonic (but remove the "super" part), dot, and then the last three letters of Internet. That ought to give the last few remaining web crawlers that don't already have it a headache, all the while letting rose lovers here a way to contact me.

Poorbutroserich, some of the species are quite small. Rosa pinetorum, Rosa gymnocarpa, Rosa borissovae, Rosa glabrifolia, and Rosa alabukensis are all little. I don't know how well they'd do in your zone however. Alabukensis, I think I've read, may be susceptible to blackspot. Kim, do you know? Rosa gymnocarpa is available from Forestfarm, and Rosa pinetorum is periodically available from various California native plant nurseries. Often these nurseries are not on HMF. I should have suckers from R. alabukensis next spring. Rosa borissovae and Rosa glabrifolia do not appear to be in commerce in the US. Both were the mother plants from Eurodesert.

Cliff Orent had the most impressive and comprehensive collection of species roses I've ever seen. I have only a minute fraction of what he had, but because of what I saw there, I'm now a species fan and look for them everywhere. I took lots of pictures of the species particularly at Eurodesert, and spent many hours studying the various plants. Even this was far too little time to do more than scratch the surface since these roses were previously mostly unknown to me.

Funny thing about Rosa alabukensis. I really REALLY like it so I put the mother plant (from Eurodesert in summer 2011 btw) in a prime spot in my front yard. Only thing was that spot was already occupied by the greedy expansionist gallica Jenny Duval. So I ripped a bunch of Jenny suckers out with my gloved hands and threw them in pots (without even bothering to cover the roots with much dirt--no problem, ALL of them survived and grew). I knew RA had wandering tendencies when I saw it dug up. The only question was which garden thug would win the turf war. Planting time was summer 2011. By early spring this year there was an enormous cane of Jenny D. growing out of the center of RA, and that plant of RA didn't look quite so vigorous. However, I had torn off 2 suckers in 2011 (the ones that didn't want to fit in the planting hole!), transferred them to pots, and subsequently planted them in other parts of the garden, with less greedy neighbors. The result is that both of these RAs are doing better than the mother plant.

One thing I've noted about these species is their disease resistance, at least to the diseases common here, like rust and mildew. Some on the above list are still too new to make a conclusion, but especially the ones I got from Eurodesert have been here several years. R. borissovae and R. glabrifolia have leaves that are clean as a whistle. RGs plant origin is Ukraine. Borissovae is a bristley little bugger while glabrifolia has relatively few thorns. RB originates from the slopes of the Caucasus Mountains.

The photo is of Rosa arkansas var. suffulta on July 14, 2011. The plant reminded me of a willow, but with the branches weighed down by a large crop of cute little apples. I'd seen this plant earlier when it was in full bloom, and it was lovely. Very graceful. I wanted to buy it, but I thought I can get R. arkansas elsewhere, better to focus on roses that are not in commerce. But I've questioned that decision as this one was so nice. I have a baby plant from Forestfarm. But it doesn't have the var. suffulta designation.

Melissa

I shall make yet another anguished plea for the Larcharme Bourbon/Noisette hybrids, or such of them as still remain in commerce.

Francois Lacharme crossed Mlle. Blanche Lafitte, variously described as either a bourbon or a Noisette, with a Damask Perpetual, Sappho, which is now extinct. That cross produced a string of unbelievably exquisite, tidy shrubs with white or light pink flowers over a ten year period in the 1860s. Boule de Neige remains available. I think RU has a couple more, Coquette des Blanches, Louise d'Arzens and Lady Emily Peel.

Ashdown had some more ,but for whatever reason, RVR, who bought the Ashdown stock, has never seen fit to release them. They can be quite difficult to get started, but are wonderful additions to any warm climate garden to about zone 6. They also seem to be nearly immune to BS.

Larry, Comtesse de Rocquigny has really piqued my interest. On HMF one person mentions that this rose seems to bloom less frequently than SdlM. Has this been your experience assuming you have had your rose long enough to judge? It looks very beautiful on HMF.

Ingrid

Ingrid,

I seem to remember piquing your interest before with this rose.
Mine came from GM, so you could write to them about it. I have only had the rose for about one year, though, so I do not really know how floriferous it is; I did read the same comment on HMF. By the way, I in no way meant to slam your SdlM, which is spectacular.

Larry

Larry,

I looked up Comtesse de Rocquigny and find it to be very pretty. I am naturally drawn to CdR, because to me as well, it resembles SDLM. I grew ZD in the past and think I prefer the sport that I did not know existed. Adelaide d Orleans is gorgeous too. What gorgeous roses you have brought out of the darkness for some of us. Thank you.

Titian, quite frequently, when I search for roses, I see one that I just believe is unremarkably beautiful, it is often an Australian rose.

Lynn

I'm glad rose species were mentioned.
When I was asked to chose roses from Miriam Wilkins estate for a public garden I chose as many of the rose species that could be dug up as I could. One thing good about rose species is that many of them root very well from suckers, and they come true to seed.

I wish I had room for more rose species, I would have 'Altaica' first.

Off the radar, Tea roses in California. I don't know why a Tea rose isn't on every block, or at least growing in every neighborhood. I counted 3 Lady Hillingdon's within 3 miles from my home, two were at collectors of O.G.R.s the other one was in a yard of a lady who had no idea what her rose was til I told her, she didn't seem to care about the name or the age, just that "It's always in bloom". I was ecstatic to see it spreading its apricot joy abundantly as a specimen plant in her lawn.

Lux
P.S. I'm giving my mother plant of R. californica to a local native garden. I'm tempted to plant suckers of it, in empty lots.

I would like to note just how much I would love to visit your gardens with these wonderful and off the radar roses

I'm with Lux on the lack of tea roses. I never see them around here but they are easy and wonderful in my climate. I live about a mile from a huge public rose garden which I believe is an ARS test garden (not sure what that entails, however) and I don't believe there are ANY teas in that garden at all. I did find out, however, that the county extension master gardener garden (not sure what you call it) has an OGR garden with some teas. Yay!

Some unusual roses I have are Mme Dore, Souv de Victor Hugo, Tipsy Imperial Concubine, Mme Bravy. I ordered Rainbow (the Papa Gontier sport) from Rogue Valley to be delivered in January. I have Papa Gontier and really like it so am anxious to have the sport. Anybody have it and could comment on it?

Jaspermplants,

I am enamored with Mme. Dore. It seems to be off the radar, but I wonder if Mme Dore was more widely available would it be more popular, or is the lack of availability due to the lack of demand?

How does your Mms. Dore hold up during the heat?

Hippy-the-hippy... I agree...I am thinking a virtual tour even..... I think many of the gardens shown on this web have more charm and highlight creativity more so than some of what I see in magazines.

Lynn

Roses that are off the radar in Sweden may not be uncommon in the US. I have been wondering about one of my favourite climbers, Michael Horvatz' Jean Lafitte. I don't know anyone that grows it over here but Is it at all common in its country of birth? I also have Long John Silver that I believe is a more common Horvatz' rose.

A photo of Jean Lafitte from last summer with the ubiquitous Charles de Mills that I finally got rid of this year. Hopefully.

Lynn, I bought Mme Dore at the recommendation of Ingrid on this forum (thanks Ingrid!). I was looking for a small bourbon and Mme Dore fits the bill. I've had her a year now and she got through my horrible summer fine. She didn't bloom in the summer, but I don't expect my roses to do that. She's in bloom now. I'm terrible with the camera or I'd post a picture. She is a great rose, love her.

I really like bourbons and most I've planted have done well here. I don't know why she's not better known, but then I feel that way about many OGR's, especially teas.

Jean Lafitte is absolutely breathtaking, both in this picture and on HMF. It's difficult to believe that this rose is so uncommon.

jaspermplants, I'm so pleased you like Mme. Dore. Mine at the moment is not so happy, pretty well defoliated with blackspot and no flowers. But then, I seem to have blackspot everywhere now. I think the flowers are really lovely, although not terribly long-lasting for me.

Ingrid

Just a few worthies, in no particular order:

'Casimir Moullé'

'Maman Lyly'

'Treasure Isle'

'Ripples'

'Occhi di Fata'

'Elizabeth Navarro'

R. hemisphaerica 'Maxima'

'Better Times'

'Fabergé'

'Queen Christina' ;-)

ah, Ripples - a real favourite for me.

I must give an honourable mention to Tolstoi - a Jan Bohm hybrid setigera - quite anomalous for me cos I am not usually keen on petal-ey roses, but Tolstoi is a winner (and not dissimilar, Marianne, to your Jean Lafitte).

Like no other rose, 'Ripples' reminds me of antique lavender-blue Tree Peonies with their distinctive, delicate moiré shading. 'Lavande' is very similar, and also a good rose, but just doesn't have quite the same magic.

R. hemisphaerica 'Maxima'? Oooh. Odinthor do you have any pictures you could post?

Melissa

I have one pic of it at HMF (see link below). I believe I have others . . . but not on the computer I'm at right now. The reputation R. hemisphaerica 'Maxima' (or whichever of the many synonyms one uses!) has for being 'difficult' or rarely giving good blooms is completely undeserved, in my experience. It may be that own-root (as is my plant) is the way to go, at least here in Southern California.

Here is a link that might be useful: My R. hemisphaerica photo at HMF

That's a neat rose Odinthor. I want one! Does it sucker and would you like a sucker of something I have? Or do you know if it is available from a nursery? I've been on the waiting list at Greenmantle for a while, but I'm not the only one, so it may take some time to get to the top. Have only found one other nursery that lists R. hemisphaerica (Colvos Creek) but they didn't have any to sell this year. Bummer.

Melissa

Alas, it doesn't sucker, and is most difficult indeed to root from cuttings. Vendors with good propagating skills need to take an interest in offering not only R. hemisphaerica 'Multiplex' but also the even rarer R. hem. 'Simplex'--which is to say the single version!

I had just embarked on the annual pruning cataclysm when I came to 'La France de '89' and realized that it's a poster-child for this thread. This is a splendid rose with a name which punishes the rose by being too clever (on the surface, it's supposed to recall revolutionary France of 1789; but of course a rosarian is "accidentally supposed to" understand that it's an 1889 rose which is as good as 'La France') such that one has the feeling that one is being hoodwinked. But NO! It's a rose which, though not like 'La France', is every bit as good; and I like it better. It's essentially a stiff climber with big, fragrant, shaggy rose-red flowers and beautiful lush foliage. The plant is sturdy, and vigorous in a well-behaved way. If this were named something like "Napoleon le Magnifique" or "Summertime Riches" or the like, it would be one of the popular dependables in the world of Old Roses. Seek it out! Grow it! Love it!

Mariannesse, Charles de Mills is not ubiquitous here in Texas. I've never laid eyes on one other than pictures. The photo of yours, along with your Jean Lafitte, is beautiful.

Randy

Poorbutroserich

Would you please contact me in re of Ivor's Rose also called: Flamenco [Beadonald]?

Thank you,
Patty
patty.forster@att.net