Appreciate anything you can tell me about its disease-resistance--and anything else about this Bourbon that I should know.

How do you think it would respond to several hours of shade at mid-day--but plenty of sun before and after that time?

I do know that it is lovely. : )

Kate

Edit: I take it back. After researching this rose a bit, I find that it has been considered a Noisette Hybrid by certain "authorities" since the 19th century, including by one of our current favorite "authorities" Paul Zimmerman. Why so many places classify it as a bourbon I still have not discovered. Anyone know?

That's just my guess.....

:-)

~Christopher

Which takes me to my second worry--the few places that sell Boule de Neige are mostly sold out now. I can get an own root version that is 1 year old from a good Texas nursery or a 2 year old version --grafted on multiflora (which I like) and supposedly virus-free--but costing more and coming from Hortico. I know some posters claim they have had no problem with Hortico, but others have pulled their hair out over Hortico--so I get nervous the few times I have ever had to order from them because there was no other place available. I'm thinking I'll go with Hortico again--but I won't be at rest until I actually see the right plant, big and healthy, in my hands!

Kate

Jay

In the 1996 book "The Organic Rose Garden" by Liz Druitt, she has this to say about 'Boule de Neige':

" Of the three seed sisters, 'Boule de Neige' is the only one to have flowers of pure white. Both 'Coquette des Alpes' and 'Coquette des Blanches', also resulting from the cross of 'Blanche Lafitte' (a Bourbon) and 'Sappho' (a Tea), have a pink tinge. Nothing wrong with a pink tinge, but the odd sister out also seems to repeat its blooming a little more often, and if you can only find space for one of these, that's a deciding factor for a long growing season. Midsummer may bring some blackspot and scanty blossoms, but overall the rose does very well in the South. The flowers are deliciously fat with petals, stone white, rounded, and very fragrant. In areas of very high humidity or constant rainfall they may have trouble with balling, but it is a price rose gardeners have always had to pay for loving this kind of floral decadence. The bush can get very large, up to 6 feet tall and eventually as wide. The flexible canes droop over under the weight of dark green foliage and snowball blossoms, which means 'Boule de Neige' is a good candidate as a pillar or pegged rose, though I've seen it most often tangled with other roses at the back of a large border."

Liz Druitt was living in Texas when the book was published, so I assume that she was writing with the Texas climate in mind.

I did notice that the Antique Rose Emporium is selling 'Coquette des Blanches' this year. I don't know if this is the one they always sell, or if they rotate their selections each year. Perhaps if you could talk to someone in their mail order department, you may be able to find out more information about why they are selling CdB instead of BdN, and maybe get more information regarding BdN, at least as far as Texas growing conditions are concerned.

'Baronne de Maynard'
'Coquette des Alpes'
'Coquette des Blanches'
'Lady Emily Peel'
'Madame Alfred de Rougemont'
'Perle des Blanches'

'Mme Francois Pittet' is a half-sib, sharing 'Mlle Blanche Lafitte' as a parent, but the other parent is not listed. 'Comtesse de Rocquigny' is probably related, if not by the same actual parents then by also having Noisette ancestry.

Sometimes it helps to look at relatives when trying to gauge how a rose will do in a given area. So if you can't find others who grow 'Boule de Neige' then perhaps finding people who grow related roses might help you give an idea about how it will do. All I can offer is that I have the mom, 'Mlle Blanche Lafitte', but planted it only this past Summer. It did get hit with blackspot, but bounced back quickly (I'm in NJ with hot and humid Summers, and I don't spray).

:-)

~Christopher

ETA -- I wonder why 'Sappho' was claimed to be a Tea in that reference. Everything I've read of it called it some kind of Perpetual -- Damask, Hybrid or Trianon.

Kate

Evenie--it is at least encouraging that your little one hasn't succumbed yet to BS.

My German and French are not very strong, but I did read some German and French sites yesterday that claimed Boule de Neige was "very disease resistant." Don't know how much I should rely on such comments, but most of the American sites just don't even mention anything about disease. It is true that Boule de Neige seems to be much more common in Europe; David Austin even offers it in his English catalog, but not his American catalog. Since the Brit and Euros grow it more often, maybe they have more info. available about how it actually grows? I hope so.

I think I did find at least one American site which agreed. The others ignored the issue.

I think I'm going to take the plunge and order it. Can always spade it if it becomes my big failure, after all. : )

Thanks everybody for helping me with this.

Kate

I have a good guess from where the "Sapho (a Tea)" came. In David Austin's book "The Heritage of the Rose" (copyright 1988), he lists the parentage of 'Boule de Neige' as:
"Boubon 'Blanche Lafitte' x the Tea Rose 'Sappho'."
I do not know when HMF came into being, but I am sure if it existed in 1996 when Liz Druitt's book was published, that it contained far less information than it does today. According to HMF, 'Sappho' the tea rose was introduced in 1889, and since 'Boule de Neige' was introduced in 1867, we can see that it was impossible for the tea to be the parent.

I believe that Austin's book "The Heritage of the Rose" was pretty common. It was the first rose book I purchased in the early 1990s, when I only had three rose bushes.

Also of interest to me, is that if you look at the references for 'Boule de Neige' on HMF, the more recent ones call it a Bourbon, the older ones call it a hybrid Noisette and the oldest calls it a hybrid perpetual. The same three classifications are used for 'Coquette des Alpes', 'Coquette des Blanches' and 'Madame Alfred de Rougemont', with the addition of Noisette perpetual. According to references at HMF 'Lady Emily Peel' and 'Perle des Blanches' have been classified as Boubon, hybrid Noisette and Noisette perpetual, with Modern Roses 10 calling 'Lady Emily Peel' a Noisette.

I was really confused about where all the Noisette classifications came from, until I used Google to translate a reference for 'Mlle Blanche Lafitte'. From what I understand of the imperfect translation of the entry from Journal des Roses (1885), they considered 'Mlle Blanche Lafitte' to be almost pure Noisette while the other references on HMF all call it a Bourbon. Vintage Gardens has this to say about 'Mlle Blanche Lafitte' :
"In style like a larger flowered Blush Noisette of even more delicate coloring, Mlle. Blanche belongs to a group which Ellwanger called as The Hybrid Noisette, which shared some of the character of Bourbons...vase shaped to about 5', bear delicious blooms of pale blush, in abundance all year.":

We planted Boule de Neige (grafted, from Pickering, listed as a bourbon as I recall) in the public garden here about 1980. I know that it was still there about 5-7 years ago (and is probably still there). It was upright to about 3' but narrower. It was one of the more disease resistant roses coming behind Stanwell Perpetual, Blush Noisette and White Rose of York but still quite good as regards black spot. Yet I remember the leaves looking a little ratty at the height of summer - tan edges sort of thing maybe it needed more water. Overall I would say that it is a tough and reasonably disease resistant rose (without spraying) with medium to small flowers. I like large flowers so to be fair they may qualify as medium which is my small. Hope this helps.

Cath

Cath--appreciate your comments since you actually know about a Boule de Neige that was planted some years ago and therefore can address a mature one. Sounds like my German and French sources may be right--it may have better than average disease-resistance. At least, I sure hope so.

Kate

Anybody heard from TammyY lately? I haven't seen any post from her recently.

Susan

susan--we have a fairly long spring and autumn around here, and lots of my roses like to show off during those cooler time periods.

Since I've been gardening for over 30 years and also adding manure and mulches and other stuff periodically to the soil, I'd guess it is in pretty good shape by now. Keeping up with the water needs is the biggest problem here--July and August are usually in the 100s. Most of my roses (and the gardener) start peetering out by August. : )

Kate