Most of my roses are OGRs, so I go happily with Gregg. I prune what's necessary when the forsythia blooms here and leave the rest of the work to the deer.

Mostly OT:

My very first roses were just outside the goat pen, planted about a foot outside the fence line. I knew the goats would nibble on the roses as they reached through the fence, and was OK with that. When we moved away 3 years later, the thickest growth on all 4 bushes was all on the side the goats could trim. All I did on the other side was dead head. Full disclosure - these were not OGR's; they were drug store HT's, but they did very well with the goat trim plan I set up. They grew and flowered quite happily, and did it the strongest on the goat side of the bush.

I do it when I feel like it, when I actually have secateurs to hand or when I have been assaulted by an unruly branch. I don't always get round to it and when I do, it is hardly ever at the 'right' time.......but, I tend to have roses which are close to the species and look OK(ish) if they are a bit scruffy and lopsided (and I have bad eyesight and never wear my glasses to the allotment so it nearly always looks vaguely appealing to me).

Even in my cold climate I'm a hands off pruner. I never prune anything in the fall and in the spring I only take off dead or winter damaged cane. I've never believed in the "prune them all down to 3, 12" canes in the spring" method. I just can't see any good reason to cut off perfectly healthy viable cane. Yes, my roses get tall over the season. So what? I thought that meant they were happy and healthy and that was to be encouraged! Yes, I exhibit but I still seem to always have blooms to take to the show. I don't know. Pruning just for the sake of pruning and because it's "what you're supposed to do" has just never made sense to me.

I go around them all in Jan when completely dormant and prune them down a bit, maybe down to 2/3 of the size I want them, not what size they are if that makes sense. I like to get them all done and looking tidy and how I want them before spring starts. Some years we have had a warm feb and I have been caught off guard, so I don't risk leaving them much later that the end of Jan.

Keeping in mind, of course, that in Southern California, there is no time when most roses are even remotely approaching dormancy.

Jeri (Who is in the "Why Prune?" Camp)

I'm pretty much in the "why prune" group; let them do what they're going to do, and enjoy! I do have to prune my Alfred du Carrierre just to keep my next door neighbor happy, but it doesn't do any good; he just comes back with a vengeance!

For me it depends on the rose. Some, like Burgundy Iceberg and Cottage Rose "tell" me they want to be pruned. I left them alone one year and they did poorly the next without pruning. Some roses, like most of my teas, I've barely touched. The same is true of my Bourbons, which are all short varieties. Mutabilis seems to like a good haircut once in a while, especially when it's fertilized with alfalfa at the same time. I have no hard and fast rules because I have many different classes of roses and they seem to have very differing needs. A lot also depends on the age of the rose and how large I would eventually like it to be.

Ingrid

I'm still learning. I started from a no-prune position and have gradually learned when and how to prune; no doubt I still have many discoveries to make.
We live in a Zone 8 area but with abundant winter chill and snow, definitely a four-season climate. Aside from year-round cutting out of dead and badly compromised canes, especially during autumn cleanup after the annual summer heat-drought massacre, I begin pruning in late fall and go on until the end of winter/start of spring. I begin with the deciduous roses once they drop their leaves, then proceed to the more cold-hardy varieties that tend to want to hang on to their foliage, for example Bourbons and Hybrid Musks, and then, usually in March, I prune the Noisette and Tea climbers and such of the Teas and Chinas as require cutting back to keep them in bounds. By the way, Maurizio Usai, an Italian rosarian who posts here occasionally, advocates summer pruning of warm-climate roses, as this is their true dormant period, and he may well be right. I never seem to get around to it at that point, so continue with my current practice that works well, too.
How much and what kind of pruning I do depends on the rose. I don't cut back anything hard, and wimpy little plants get only dead growth removed. In the case of small, weak plants, I tend to leave on damaged canes if they're still partially functioning, until the plant makes new replacement growth. Shrub Teas and Chinas I prune mainly to contain them, sometimes removing a quarter to a third of the growth, and, though I don't know if this is a good idea, I remove some of the weak, old growth. Hybrid Musks seem to need to have old canes removed, cutting out the whole cane, otherwise the entire plant deteriorates, but I'm still experimenting with this. I have some plants in bad shape, but plan on rejuvenating them slowly, not cutting out all the old canes but just a portion. My 'Sally Holmes' looks like she needs such a treatment, and this worked for my (probable) 'Reynolds Hole', a Hybrid Perpetual with long, arching canes. It was almost dead until I began removing some of its old canes a year or two ago, but has begun growing new canes.
In the case of the once-blooming old roses, I usually cut out the oldest canes and leave it at that; some varieties that are very tall, sometimes lanky, like 'Great Maiden's Blush' or 'La Noblesse' I cut back the canes by a third or a half, but this doesn't work for all roses. Sometimes roses treated this way are just awkward looking; for example, I've learned not to do this with the shrub rose 'Fruhlingsduft', which needs its arching 6' canes to look right.
The climbing Noisettes and Teas, once they get going, need a solid annual pruning to remove tired old canes, clean out weak and diseased growth, and limit their exuberance. I do this at the end of winter when new growth provoked by the pruning is less likely to be hit by a late frost. 'Jaune Desprez', 'Crepuscule', 'Souv. de Mme. Leonie Viennot', 'Cl. Mrs. Herbert Stevens', and 'Duchesse d'Auerstaedt' are my current roses that fall in this category, and they respond well to this treatment. The Lady Banks roses can apparently just be left to grow. I suspect that the more tender Barbier ramblers need the same treatment as the Tea and Noisette climbers.
A few years ago I cut back 'Noelle Nabonnand' hard at the end of summer because it had fifteen foot canes and was all over the garden. It sulked for the next three years or so, and only this year began growing vigorously again. So I learned to be careful about hard pruning climbers, though I don't know exactly what my mistake was: cutting off so much growth all at once? cutting back in the late summer? In any case I learned caution.
Melissa

With the greatest respect to the original poster, the idea that one has to either prune down to 12 inches or not prune at all is a little restrictive.

Surely one can operate within those extremes depending on individual conditions, climate, age and type of rose, available space, aesthetic preference and even interest in gaining understanding of the art of gardening?

In fact, exactly as Melissa is doing: learning plant by plant over the years. And the secret is just that - plant by plant. Not even by type of plant - there is no 'rule' that will fit all climbers, or all Hybrid Musks, for even the same variety will require different treatment in the garden across the road (as I know from experience of helping with roses around my village), which may be in sun rather than shade, on a wall rather than free-standing, in poor rather than rich soil and the owner a neatness freak rather than a free spirit.

All of which is to say: don't look too hard for 'rules'. Work out your own way. Don't worry what others may think of your results. When you *have* worked it out - don't be dogmatic! Don't insist that your way is right anywhere but in your own garden. And the loftier you are in the rose world, the less you should teach others, other than by opening your garden to them. You will learn more about Jackie or Pamela from a single photograph of their gardens than in a thousand word treatise.

Best wishes
Jon

I don't prune in the Fall, and I've never pruned anything below 3ft, but I'm in a warmer zone. During the year I prune moderns for size (Barbara Bush, hybrid tea is right now a full 8 ft tall!) so that I can actually enjoy the flowers without a ladder, and I snip off wayward branches. I really don't prune antiques at all unless I have to (stupid chilli thrips). Regardless, everything gets BIG here.

Lots of good ideas. Jon is of course absolutely right that we don't need to be dogmatic about any of this. And Melissa's and others' advice to go plant by plant is so true. They're all individuals and as Ingrid says, the plants will "tell" us what they want if we listen and observe carefully. Like Jeri, I'm in So Cal and observe that many roses want to be evergreen here. Mine even have their best blooms between Oct and June, so January pruning seems a sacrilege.I agree with Maurizio that summer is our true dormant season.

Philosophy summary - whatever my eyes think, per plant.

I get the impression that in my climate, I can do pretty much whatever I want, whenever I want - no life or death scenarios.

I do what I consider to be a hard prune in February - mostly just gut on what feels right. Younger guys, very little pruning. Regular HTs, about 1/2. Grandifloras - to about 1/3. Floribundas - I just eyeball them - probably not that hard a prune. Starting this year - going into 4th year for oldest roses, I am going to start removing one or two old canes where there are plenty. I also thin out when thinning feels appropriate.

I shorten/trim/prune any time of year for a rose that is getting too big or gangly, or just looks like it needs it. Nothing scientific. Now, for all the new Austins, I'm just going to have to feel them out. They're all young, so not much of any pruning this year. Mary Rose looks like she needs to be taken down to close to 1/2. Climbers I leave alone except removing anything unhealthy.

Jon, you are definitely correct. There really aren't any rules. But...for years and years most of us have been told there are. Lets face it, when we all started out we were told all the things you "have" to do to grow roses. We read them in books. had nurserymen and landscapers tell us and were advised by mentors on all of the things that fussy, diva, "hard to grow" roses needed. But with the help of places like GW and rose growers who were willing to experiment and started to observe their roses more closely and think about things a little more clearly, slowly, we're learning for ourselves that those old rules just aren't true. Now all we need to do is get the word out that roses are EASY to grow if you through out the "rule" book!

To prune or not to prune..now that is the question. My garden is quite young so almost none. Prune dead, and branchees heading in the wrong direction. I do this late spring.
During summer I constantly deadhead expired blossoms. As I walk through our garden daily, I'm pinching. Yup a pincher here.
One exception is Big Mac. aka. Madamoiselle Alfred Carrier. With numerous prunings she now stands 10' tall, 4' deep and 6' wide. A definite beast in the making.
We also habe a 2 year old Mermaid which looks like it will require continual hacking to keep it in bounds.
And so it goes.
Jeannie

I don't 'prune', I just cut back what's in the way, but daily I dead-head and maybe take my clippers and cut back the long cane I have dead-headed, my roses look 'that way' also, very unkempt...I would never-ever cut stuff down to 12" or 18" or waist or knee high, that is like murder.....sally

I like to prune.

My thought is that each rose tells me how it wants to be pruned, like a piece of stone that has a sculpture hidden inside it that needs to be released. Growing as a gardener means that I am learning to understand what the plant is expressing. Over the years I have come to believe that in our summer drought climate I want to leave a lot of plant to support deep roots in the ground, roots that can go far seek out water. However this does not mean that I don't prune. I still prune each plant, each year. Sometimes, not very much; but still something, if only to remove dead and damaged material.

Rosefolly

Some time ago there was a pruning demo that was offered through Ashdown and I never really understood clearly the idea presented. I know you removed dead and diseased or bloomed/branched out canes. Somehow the growth on the outside was supposed to support growth coming up from inside. How does that work?

I use a pruning method on my Bourbons that I learned from a book written by 2 gardeners from England. You decide how tall you want the rose to be. The first year, you cut it substantially lower and in following years, you keep raising the height of the initial cuts and this leads to a well branched top. The canes are staggered in height so that they are shorter at the outside edges and tallest in the center. This gives flowers all over the shrub and not just the top. I like this method better than just letting it go. I get many many more flowers and the plant looks like a big bouquet in the yard. If I let it go, I get a few at the tops of tall fishing rods unless I am pegging them. My bourbons have a big spring bloom and then maybe a bloom here and there later on but this method gives the best spring bloom. Some of the DAs do very well with this method as well. Forcing the branching makes all the difference.

Kitty, I may know the book you describe. If I am right then what you are describing has much in common with the method described in the Ashdown video with David Stone. Similar concept, different words. In both cases you are building structure.

I don't prune, so I quit growing any roses that needed pruning...and now the remaining roses and my cold winters seem to get along quite well together :)

I started pruning moderately (25-30%) the established roses in spring but then "hard deadhead" (2-4') many throughout the year so I don't end up with monsters by September. This has worked out well. The garden looks good into December rather than looking like Sleeping Beauty has moved in but the Prince never showed up.

Roses get really large here. Most "compact" varieties have gotten large. It has been hard to find cultivars that do not eventually grow huge.

I don't touch the young (

Every rose, gardener, and situation are different. I don't believe in heavey pruning but there are times when I must. The roses tell me what they need.

Seil, right on! That has been my experience exactly! I prune to keep a path in my little garden, remove dead/diseased wood and for shape. GW is an awesome resource!

hoovb, your pruning ideas sound perfect for us.

CALLING OLGA * CALLING OLGA *

We need Olga to reiterate her methods of pruning once-bloomers. It really works, it's NOT what we've always been told.

OLGA, WHERE ARE YOU?????

This post was edited by fig_insanity on Sun, Dec 23, 12 at 20:59