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| I understand that Bourbons are blackspot prone, and I live in BS territory with hot, humid summers. Are there some bourbons that are more blackspot-resistant? I'm thinking of giving it a try but don't know which one to choose. |
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| I had a Zéphirine Drouhin a little farther north from here, in zone 8b. She didn't spot, but was terribly stingy with her blooms. I suppose it may depend on what types of blackspot you have, as no OGRs I've ever grown had spot problems down here in the swamplands, only the HT's. Perhaps someone closer to you has tried some Bourbons with success. It might be helpful to name your city? |
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| I would think whether you are willing to spray or not would make a big difference. |
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| I'm zone 6 (Kansas) but don't know if that is similar to your zone 6 or not. While this is not BS he!!, there certainly are BS pressures here. Mystics Beauty (or its nearly identical sister Souvenir de la Malmaison) is the only Bourbon I grow. I selected it after discussing the BS problem with members of this forum. We came to the conclusion that MB (or SdlM) was probably the most BS resistant. I can testify that MB has almost no BS problems here--a few spots here or there periodically, but nothing to get worried about. That's all I know about Bourbons--oh yes, except that MB (or SdlM) is one of the most beautiful roses there is! Kate |
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| They are a highly variable class - some of the smaller bush bourbons have been a bit tricky and fragile (Madame Pierre Oger, Reine Victoria, SDLM, while the climbing bourbons have been a bit more robust in the UK (Blairii 2, Zepherine D, Prince Charles, SDLM clg). Best thing is to try one and see since they seem to have particular soil preferences and all require a certain amount of good ventilation. Blackspot has been less of an issue than mildew. |
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| evenie, I live in Brooklyn which is one of the 5 boroughs of New York City. dublin, you sure are right about Mystic Beauty. I checked it out on HMF & totally agree with you. It's a stunning rose. |
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- Posted by farmerduck none (My Page) on Sat, Dec 7, 13 at 22:59
| View1ny -- I am in Livingston, and we are probably 20 miles apart. I have two Louise Odiers, two ZDs and one Mme. Isaac Piereire. They are all 3-year old own-root plants. Except for one of the two LOs, all are very healthy and suffers no or little from blackspot in their 3 years in my garden. I don't spray. One of the two LOs has been sulking and has not really grown much in three years because I planted it too close to the house. The poor thing suffers terribly from the reflective heat from the stone facade and it does not get much rain fall because of the roof. I need to move it, but I have run out of garden pace. It could be just beginners' luck, but in my garden these Burbons have no disease issue. (But another rose, Julie Child, which seems to be BS resistant for everyone else on this forum, blackspots spectacularly, and barely have any leaves left by August each year.) OD and MIP are two of my all time favorites, and both are the kind of the roses that take one'sr breath away. My MIP is a bit gangly for now, but OD and ZD both have beautiful, "natural" growth habit. Even if not in bloom, they are beautifal, arching plants. (I enjoyed my few HTs, but compared to these Bourbons, I cannot help wonder whether they do look a bit plastic and "done.") Out of the three, I am least crazy about ZD. I found ZD's individual blooms uninteresting. However, I thank my ZDs each time I do my weeding. Very flexibile canes and no worries for vicious thorns for a change! So, DO go for it. Roses seem to be location specific/garden-specific. Maybe they would love your garden.... BTW, OD is the best repeater for me so far. I cannot find a whole bush photo, but here is a picture of OD. You are lucky to garden in Brooklyn. Here deer infestation seems to be getting worse. Just yesterday, we counted 2 dozens or so (in three herds) sauntered past our backyard. It is a helpless battle to keep anything other than confiers and a few other plants from becoming deer food... I don't let my 2-year old play in the backyard because of the deer poops and danger of getting bitten by ticks.
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- Posted by farmerduck none (My Page) on Sat, Dec 7, 13 at 23:17
| Also, I saw quite a few Bourbons at the Brooklyn Botanical Garden. I understand unlike the one in the Bronx, they do spray, butnot on a systematic basis -- or so I heard. Maybe talk to the rosariain there? |
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| farmer, 2 dozen deer? yikes. I thought the squirrels & cats were a problem here although I admit the sight of the cats lounging on my patio furniture is pretty cute. I've always admired the photos of Louise Odier but thought it wouldn't do well in my garden. I also salivate over Honorine de brabant and guess I should just go ahead and try one to see how it does. Thanks for sharing your experience. |
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| The two that make the best plants here in terms of branching, vigor, shrubbiness and rebloom are Souvenir de la Malmaison and Maggie. Sometimes Maggie has no BS when others do, and then other times it has more BS than some . Even so it remains vigorous and blooms a lot. Both are very fragrant. I spray a bit irregularly but both get some BS anyway. I like Louise Odier's pear shaped fall hips. Blooms are smaller on that one for me. Maggie can really take the heat and blooms in big flushes all season. Here is a picture of my plant right beside the street: |
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| I live in Tulsa, and have very little blackspot withSDLM or Maggie. I have 12 SDLM and about 4 Maggies. THere are times when the weather is soggy and yucky so that almost everything is spotted. WHen that happens, the roses drop the leaves after new ones grow, I think. The canes are hardly ever bare, and the roses continue to bloom. Mystic Beauty is not sold where I purchase roses, but many people love her. Kronprincessin Viktoria has never been proflic to me nor has Souvennir de St. Anne. St. Anne has its own fair beauty, but is not as striking to me at SDLM. Louise Odier is breathtakingly beautiful, but was a once bloomer for me. I have the same comment about Zephrine. Sammy |
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| My climate is very BS prone, so much so that I'm not even going to try another David Austen. I had the climber form of SLDM in a previous garden, and it did wonderfully well. I planted the bush form this spring, and so far, it's very healthy and very floriferous. I've also just planted MIP, and she is healthy and very vigorous, and I love the blooms. I've been growing Gypsy Boy for a couple of years, and he has no disease. I did have ZD, but after 2 years of BS, decided to shovel prune. I loved the blooms, though. They're a lovely loose, cupped shape, and the perfume is divine. |
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| view1ny, You didn't really expect us to tell you not to grow bourbons, did you? LOL Anyway, here, near Dayton, Ohio, Souvenir de la Malmaison, Jacques Cartier (portland/bourbon) amd Zephrine Drouhin grow well with a touch of blackspot on the lower leaves from time to time but it is not a serious problem and ZD is a once bloomer. Cath |
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| The thing is that my garden is so small (room for 4-5 roses) & the rest go into pots on my deck. The real estate is so limited that I'm afraid of making a mistake. I've gotten some really good advice here so I am considering SDLM or Louise Odier. The truth is that they're all so beautiful & I wish I could plant loads more. |
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| If you are making a choice between SDLM or Louise Odier, I'd say SDLM wins hands down! SDLM is simply one of the loveliest roses in my book and doesn't get real large--important in your limited space, I assume. : ) Kate |
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| Will try to post my Maggie picture again. I think it gets too big for a small space. |
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| I second Kate's advice, Souvenir de le Malmaison over Louise Odier. For one thing it blooms more, at least for me. Cath |
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| I also agree: SDLM wins hands down over Louise Odier in every respect. Ingrid |
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| Sold!! SDLM it is! Thanks for the advice. How can I go wrong with such a beauty? |
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