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luxrosa

P.M. resistant Tea roses?

luxrosa
12 years ago

I live near San Francisco, California and I'm interested in hearing from others about which Tea roses are resistant to powdery mildew because the cool temperatures and the level of humidity where I live are conditions that favor that fungal disease, greatly. Where I live, blackspot on Tea roses is rarely a problem.

In 3 gardens within 15 miles of San Francisco, including my garden, I've studied c. 50 different Tea and Tea Hybrids grown without ever being sprayed.

List of Tea roses that are most resistant to Powdery Mildew, without ever being sprayed. This allows for some p.m. to show, a light film of p.m. during the worst weeks of the year, but no defoliation, ever and a normal bloom display.

Healthiest White Tea and Tea Hybrids

Westside Road Cream Tea' a fragrant rose that is in full bloom as I write this in early December and reblooms rapidly through the 3 other seasons.

Tea-Hybrid cl. 'Mrs. Herbert Stevens'. listed in the Oz book on Tea roses and a good substitute for an O.G.R. Tea in cooler climates. Blooms early in the year with Mme. Alfred Carriere (but the Mrs. is far healthier) at the end of February, when the other H.T.s don't come into bloom until late April.

3. White Maman Cochet

4. 'Lamarque' Tea-Noisette the healthiest of the white Tea-Noisettes by far. with St. Leonards coming in second.

5. St Leonards' a Tea Noisette.

6. Le Pactole originally sold as a Noisette it is one of my favorite Tea roses.

Disease Pink Tea roses and blends

A list

Mme. Berkeley stands out as being the healthiest rose in a no spray garden of 200 mixed rose cultivars, where conditions favor p.m. (but I've heard that it does not do well where conditions favor blackspot primarily)

B. Mlle. Fransizka Kruger' I almost threw this rose out as a small plant and am thrilled that it developed a strong immune system when mature. Even in December it shows little disease.

C. Mlle. Cecille Brunner' Poly-Tea Hybrid. all forms, short, Spray, and Climbing are equally resistant to p.m. and show very little b.s. locally.

D. P. and the other Nabonnand Teas whose first name slip my mind.

E. Le Vesuve China-Tea

F. Souvenir de un Ami

G. that Wagram Tea, I don't have its full name with me. On rootstock this has grown to be an amazing size, c. 8 feet tall by nearly as wide. pink with peach tones, quite impressive.

H. Bon Silene

I. Huntington pink Tea

J. Maman Cochet

reported to me: A lady who brought an exceedingly fragrant bouquet of 'Anna Olivier' to the Old Rose Celebration said that the plant which supplied the roses was growing by the road near Santa Cruz and showed no sign of disease. The leaves in the bouquet were utterly clean.

Disease resistant Yellow blend Teas and Tea Hybrids

A list

Souvenir de la Pierre Notting. (though I dislike the brown ruff around the blooms that form a couple days after it opens this is healthier than Alliance Franco-Russe, here.

Etoille de Lyon , such pretty foliage. Oh I do love this rose. I had a bouquet of Lemon Spice and Etoille de Lyon and could hardly tell them apart in the vase except by size of bloom and fragrance.

Marie Van Houtte', healthy and lovely. quite thorny for a Tea

GLoire de Dijon only a little b.s. in autumn, but the plant is not vigorous and only has one basal cane. I hope the new clone from France is bushier.

Crepescule

Reve d'Or

Richly hued Teas, healthy in our no spray gardens:

A list

Rosette Delizy

Monsieur Tillier, healthier than C.C.

Clementina Carbonieri, a light covering of p.m. when young but grew out of it.

Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne' as elegant as Mme. Lombard in bloom style, but by far more resistant to p.m..

Souvenir de Therese Lovet' a little b.s..

Francis Dubreuil also shows a little blackspot in autumn.

Borderline Tea and Tea Hybrids

these flower normally but are always covered with a fthick layer of p.m..

Mme. Alfred Carriere

cl. and bush form of 'Devoniensis' one of my favorite roses in bloom, sigh...but thickly frosted with p.m..

Mme. Lombard' also thickly covered with p.m.. which is a real shame as it is so lovely.

Angels Camp Tea when mature during a few of the hottest weeks of the year it has no p.m., but it usually does.

Duchess de Brabant' also covered with p.m. all year long but I keep it because it blooms through the most months of the years of among c. 50 Tea roses.

Defoliated and sent to a dryer,hot climate

Ducher' China-Tea

Georgetown Tea

I'm sure I've forgotten some, I've been documenting bloom cycles and health of Tea roses for several years.

Luxrosa

Comments (54)

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Madame Alfred was disappointing for me when I tried it about 12 or 13 (or maybe 14) years ago. No one on the forum at the time believed me when I insisted it got a lot of PM here. The same was true of the much beloved Mrs B R Cant, and chinas Hermosa and Duchesse de Brabant. I took them all out, and Old Blush as well. I tried Georgetown Tea, too. PM again.

    This is why I have resisted teas for so long, despite the fact that people insist that teas, chinas, and noisettes are ideal for California. Despite some problem plants, I've had better luck on the whole with hybrid perpetuals, though of course HPs have their own problems with disease. But as I have stated here before, I'm trying again; cautiously this time, and only roses that gardeners in similar climates assure me do not get PM, or at least, not much.

    Rosefolly

  • roseseek
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I believe you rosefolly. Mme. Alfred, Old Blush, Hermosa were all mildewy in the Santa Clarita Valley, too, year after year. And, that is an arid climate. Kim

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Same here, Kim. Lovely roses that have disease problems here, and are long-gone.

    Now, all of the Cochets are completely disease-free here -- OTOH, in cold, dank, weather, they may not open well. (This does not much distress me. They look lovely half-open.)

    G. Nabonnand has been very clean here.
    So have:
    Rosette Delizy, Mons. Tillier, General Gallieni, Devoniensis, Lady Roberts.
    I can see that Mme. Berkeley, in a hot climate, may not have pleasing color -- but in my cool climate, she is caramel, creme, and strawberries, and truly lovely.

    ALL of the red Chinas seem to be terrific here.
    Pink Chinas (Old Blush, et al) notsogood -- and AFAICS, the immediate children of Old Blush all mildew here.

    Jeri In-Coastal-Fog

  • roseseek
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ironic about the Red Chinas. Nothing called "Slater's Crimson China" that ever followed me home could outlive the mildew. Vintage's Miss Lowe and Purpurea are spotless in Encino and I'd not expect them to be as they are partially shaded by a walnut. Kim

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You know, Kim -- We had early-on a "Slater's Crimson China" which grew like no other China I've ever seen.

    It was stumpy and upright. It grew indifferently, and it mildewed like mad.

    I don't know what it WAS, but I am at this point reasonably certain it can't have been 'Slater's Crimson China.'

    SINCE that time, we've grown Rougetel's "White Pearl In Red Dragon's Mouth," 'Louis Philippe', 'Cramoisi Superieur', "Emmie Gray", "Bengal Fire"/Vintage's 'Miss Lowe's Variety'/"Single Red China", "Elisabeth's China," "Malespina Plot," and "Magnolia Cemetery Rose," NONE of which has ever displayed a speck of either mildew or rust here in our alkaline soil/water and cool fog.

    Jeri

  • roseseek
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know why it hadn't struck me before, but next year I honestly must breed Vintage's Miss Lowe with Purpurea. Both flower heavily and are totally clean here. I wonder what that might produce? Now, add Mutabilis to them and......Kim

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You know, Kim -- That's a pretty nifty idea.
    It would be of some size, should be tough as nails, disease and drought-resistant, and bloom like a house afire.

    Jeri

  • mudbird
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Most of the Teas and Chinas suffer here (inland hills west of Venice Beach), tho many initially start out well if babied in a pot against a sunny wall. But, once planted out in the garden with regular cool damp breezes blowing along the ground, most of my Teas & Chinas get PM, flowers ball & rot, and they sulk and decline. I think they crave a consistent high heat & sunniness that we simply don't get along the coast until August-Nov. The Teas/Chinas/T-Noisettes that have thrived here are: Baronne Henriette de Snoy (a massive angular beast of a shrub), Cl. Maman Cochet (humomgous climber that outgrew it's arch and hated pruning, gradually declined) Cl. Mrs Herbert Stevens (exceptionally elegant flowers which were often damaged by damp morning air ), Mrs. BR Cant (slow to mature here so no idea how big it will get), Archduke Charles is struggling planted out altho it did very well in a pot against a sunny wall and may go back there. Otoh, yellow Teas initially grow really well here! Only to suffer PM and ball - most flowers ruin. Alliance Franco-Russe, Etoile de Lyon, Souv. de Pierre Notting - all vigorous but ruined by coastal murk! However, we do have 3 massive Madame Alfreds - all 20ft high and 10"ft across - which get some PM, but bloom wonderfully thruout the year - they're just finishing up a massive THanksgiving show. Except for slight PM, they provide privacy from neighbors and lovely blush-tinted flowers. All are planted behind our house which gives some shelter from the coastal wind. A 4th Madame Alfred planted in front in the direct path of the wind suffered badly from PM and was yanked. Based on Jeri's praise for Reve d'Or in Ventura, I'm been growing 2 of those (ownroots) - one in the ground and one in a redwood tub - and both are thriving. Tho only 1 year old, they seems to laugh at the coastal murk and cool temperatures, so I've got fIngers crossed for a yellow Tea-Noisette rose and may try a third.

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't get carried away with yellow Tea-Noisettes.

    You might try William Allen Richardson, but the others likely won't "do" in your climate.

    Etoile de Lyon, however, will open beautifully for you, IF you remove the guard petals.

    Give the others -- such as Archduke Charles -- time to mature. Not the 2 years you might give a Hybrid Tea Rose, but 3-4. Teas, ON THEIR OWN ROOTS, take some patience in a cool climate.

    Jeri

  • luxrosa
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks all for your information.
    roseseek, anyone can use my information if they please.

    In the 1990's I took an inventory of the health of each of the Old Garden Roses and the early H.T.s and Pernatiana roses that thrived in the Old Rose garden called The Florentine at Morcom Park in Oakland, Ca (corner of Olive and Oakland ave. , which by local law, is a no-spray garden. I'll look to see if I can find that data base.

    I hope this will help people who wish to grow healthy roses without the need for spraying them.

    Luxrosa

  • north_ca_rose
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This post has extremely useful information for those of us with teas and experience PM on roses. Thanks for starting the thread.

    I'm currently planning on replacing Madame Joseph Schwartz with Mrs Dudley Cross. Madame Joseph Schwartz is a good sized plant with so,so foliage (slight PM) but it doesn't bloom often and most times when it does bloom, the blooms don't open. I saw catspa's comment "... and Mrs. Dudley Cross all mildewed badly here, but some were admittedly in bad spots". As I too live in lovely Livermore, I was curious if Mrs. Dudley Cross was in a bad spot. As this is a premier spot in my garden, I really want a rose that does well.

    Here are my other teas:
    Niles and Maman Cochet and Mrs B.R. Cant - they are only one year old
    Madame Joseph Schwartz - see comments above
    Monsieur Tillier - great performer with no PM in my garden
    Duchesse de Brabant - does have a bit of PM but not enough for me to dislike her
    Madame Antoine Mari - year three still has a bit of PM
    Mrs Dudley Cross, Regulus, and Dr Grill - still in pots

    Karen

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Luxrosa, you intrigued me with your mention of Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland. Somehow I had never heard of it, so of course I had to look it up. From the description I would have guessed it was mostly modern roses in the style of the San Jose Municipal Garden, as opposed to a garden that included lots of old roses in the style of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. However your mention of checking the health of roses there made me think twice. Is it all modern roses? Or does it include heirloom roses? If so, I'm going to have to make a trek up there come spring.

    Rosefolly

    Here is a link that might be useful: Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm taking a last look at the currently available teas on Vintage's list. Those I have not yet ordered, but which appeal to me, include these:

    Giles Nabonnand
    Rosette Delizy
    Blumenschmidt

    Reports on Rosette Delizy's PM resistance look good. For G Nabonnand, the reports vary. Am I right in thinking it does well in southern California but not well in the Bay Area, as far as PM-resistance goes? Finally, I have not heard anything one way or the other about Blumenschmidt, a yellow sport of Mademoiselle Franziska Kruger. Does anyone grow it, and if he does, does it have problems with powdery mildew?

    Rosefolly

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've not grown Blumenschmidt --

    But we grow Rosette Delizy and G. Nabonnand here along the SoCal coast, where fog is common. RD's been here for easily 20 years.
    I've never seen a sign of fungal disease on either of these roses.

    Mme. Lombard mildews for us -- though the more mature the plant becomes, the leas mildew I see.
    Both Catherine Mermet and Bridesmaid mildew here, even as very very mature plants.
    So-called "Francis Dubreuil" mildewed here -- but then it is red, fragrant, and not a Tea Rose, so that's not surprising.

    I should note that Old Blush (Yes, I know it's a China) mildews here, as does Le Vesuve. I think anything just one generation down from O.B. is going to mildew in my conditions.

    Jeri

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rosefolly, for me G. Nabonnand was one of the absolute worst for PM, to the point that after 7 years, I finally couldn't take it anymore and took him out. The PM never seemed to affect his incredibly abundant and beautiful bloom, but the shrub literally never looked good -- from beginning of season to end.
    -- Debbie

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Funny, I thought I posted a response but my reply doesn't show up.

    Catspa, that confirms what I had thought, and I will not be planting G. Nabonannad.

    Jeri, I've noticed that it isn't always the same roses that mildew for you and for me, no doubt because we have less fog influence here. I'm about 10-15 miles from the SJHRG but up in the lower foothills just a bit. We do see fog some winter mornings but it always burns off in the afternoon. And many days we see it below us.

    Rosefolly

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think there can be BIG differences between NoCal and SoCal -- just as there are big differences between coastal and inland conditions.

    I LIKE living within sight of the sea -- but ROSES don't always feel the same way.

    I really think that a lot of things contribute to whether roses mildew or not. Y'all in NoCal get a lot more rain than we ever do, and I think overall that helps you. Here, for most of the year, there's nothing to wash away mildew spores except a garden hose. :-( But our coastal fog can roll in and just hang here on our hillside, in the spring and early summer -- and and when that happens, things that CAN mildew usually do.
    By contrast, at THIS time of the year, things that CAN RUST are rusted, but mildew has crept out of the picture.

    Jeri

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No responses on experience with Blumenschmidt, so I'll ask if anyone has grown Mademoiselle Franziska Kruger. Since one is a sport of the other, that information may be useful.

    Rosefolly

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just as an experiment, I have ordered two of the tea-noisette roses Vintage has imported. I know no one in my climate has any experience growing them here, but I will be happy to report my own experiences in a few years. I won't even get them for another year, so it will be a while.

    The two I selected are these:

    Madame Louis Henri - cream
    Madame Pierre Cochet - gold

    Rosefolly

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Karen in Livermore,

    I apologize for not seeing your question earlier! Yes, Mrs. Dudley Cross was in a poor spot (up on a west-facing slope: scant sun until later in the day and rather dry), so it may very well not have been her fault, really. (I've found a few hardy survivors for those spots, Purpurea for one). I would be interested to hear about other experiences in the Bay Area with MDC: mildew-magnet or not?

    Debbie

  • sherryocala
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Interesting that Duchesse de Brabant is about the only tea rose that I have that gets PM - just in the spring when it's dry here and cool at night. Her leaves get deformed before I even notice she has it. I'll remember about hosing her down, but she does have a micro-sprinkler right next to her.

    Mlle Franziska Fruger and Blumenschmidt both got veggie centers really bad for me. At least 80% of their flowers had them. I really didn't like it and they're gone.

    Rosefolly, I hope your new teas turn out beautifully for you - PM wise and otherwise.

    Sherry

    Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Catspa -- It's not the Bay Area, but our fog is similar ... and Mrs. Dudley Cross was a misbegotten mass of mildew here for all the time we had her.

    And she was here long enough to outgrow it if she was going to. She didn't. She and Duchesse de Brabant are the ONLY two Teas that have been complete, mildew-ridden failures for us -- But having seen it in an old cemetery where it was similarly-troubled, I would also avoid Mrs. Joseph Schwartz.

    We replaced Cross with Marie van Houtte, which was a FAR better rose for our conditions, and I recommend her with a whole heart for a coastal situation.

    Jeri
    In Coastal Ventura County, SoCal

  • north_ca_rose
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Debbie - Thanks for getting back to me about Mrs Dudley Cross. I planted her yesterday in a very optimum spot and will let you know how she performs in Lovely Livermore.

    Yesterday I also planted Dr Grill and Mademoiselle Franziska Kruger. They have been in pots since May and so far so good. I'll let you know how they do as they mature.

    Karen

  • Rosefolly
    9 years ago

    Just looking back to check something I thought I remembered. This was one of the most useful threads I ever found on tea rose selection.

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
    9 years ago

    Rosefolly...I was wondering how the Madame Pierre Cochet did for you? I notice that Angel Gardens in FL carries this although it is currently out of stock. Just trying to get some kind of idea on how it might perform. Thanks.

  • titian1 10b Sydney
    9 years ago

    Thanks luxrosa for such an informative list. I'm in sight of the sea, but no fog TG. I have Etoile de Lions, Souv d'un Ami and Mme Berkeley on order, so am looking forward to them even more now.

    Angel's Camp gets mildew,but not too badly. D de B ditto.

    Marie van Houtte, Anna Olivier, G Nabbonand (new, but had it in another garden where it was healthy), and Mrs DC are all free of PM for me, and have very little BS. Also Ms Tillier, but he has had tiny flowers (as reported by daisyincrete on her Archduc Joseph), this summer. Didn't happen to another Ms T that was in a much wetter spot, so am putting it down to being dry. he may go the way of daisy's AJ.

    Trish.

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    I hope everyone adds their in put and experiences and updates this topic

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    9 years ago

    titian, I had to take out Souvenir d'un Ami after about four years, not because of disease, but because it was a most unsatisfactory bloomer, and when it did bloom many times the roses were unattractive. I hope you have better luck. The beautiful Alexander Hill Gray mildewed unremittingly, and actually got worse as it matured. It was right next to Rosette Delizy which has never mildewed. Mrs. Dudley Cross, a rose I love, also had to go because of extreme mildew. Reve d'Or was free of mildew and beautiful, but couldn't stand my hot wall and I had nowhere else to put it. Le Vesuve sometimes mildews but never to any great extent. I don't remember whether Blumenschmidt mildewed but it was such an unlovely rose that it went without regret on my part. Cels Multiflora, classed as either a China or a Tea, was a lovely rose that developed blackspot and gave it to every other rose in the vicinity. Second Street Tea never prospered and just faded away. Right now I have mildew on quite a few teas such as Mme. Antoine Mari, Duchesse de Brabant and Madame Lambard, but these are all very young roses and I hope they'll pull themselves together as they mature. Miss Atwood has crummy-looking leaves, not mildew but some unknown malady. Mrs. B.R. Cant, of which I have two, has never mildewed. No. 92 Nanjing, one of the Vintage French imports, shows no sign of mildew, but is such a slow grower for me. Fortunately it's putting out some basals for the first time this spring. Mlle. de Sombreuil, a very prolific bloomer, has never had mildew, and is one of the fastest-growing own-root roses I've ever had. I hope this is of help to some of you.


  • rbehs
    9 years ago

    This is my experience to-date with
    Teas, Tea-Noisettes and Chinas in East Oakland.
    I’m still in Sunset zone 17, but get less fog and more warmth than points
    west. I was inspired to go crazy after
    reading the Australian tea book several years ago, so most of these are only in
    their third year in my yard, and my evaluations are preliminary.

    Blumenschmidt: Moderate growth, healthy, most floriferous
    tea so far, but not that attractive.

    Bon Silène: Slow growth to date, no mildew

    Crépuscule: Still getting started, it needs to fight its
    way above some invasive calla lilies.

    Duchesse de Brabant: Quick growth, healthy, but always salmon, not
    pink, flowers. Is this possible? I may have the plant mixed up.

    Emmanuella de Mouchy: Rapid growth, healthy, but each leaf gets multiple
    circular holes from the native hole-cutting bees, who prefer Emmanuella’s
    leaves over any other.

    Général Schablikine: Moderate growth, healthy foliage, beautiful
    flowers with radiant coloring. My
    favorite tea so far.

    Gruss an Teplitz: Heavy, heavy mildew last year, its second
    year. It looked like a miserable
    stick. So far, so good right now, but I’m
    nervous.

    Hermosa: Small but healthy and vigorous.

    Maman Cochet: Every flower balled, very slow growth until
    it suddenly took off last year, but grew too quickly in the drought and then
    died.

    William Allen Richardson: It came to me as a struggling band, and died soon
    after during the drought.

  • Rosefolly
    8 years ago

    I come back to this thread again and again. It was so very useful when I was selecting teas for my garden.

  • Vicissitudezz
    8 years ago

    Well, I'm glad you 'bumped it up' if only so that I could hear about "St Leonard's" Noisette for the first time.

    Looking at HMF, I saw a mention of "St L" possibly being 'Miss Glegg', and the old descriptions of 'Miss G.' seem to fit with what little info there is at the "St Leonard's" record, but it would be nice if there were more info, even though it is out of commerce. A bit puzzled by it being called a Tea-Noisette in this post, however; if it is a Tea-Noisette, I don't think it could be 'Miss Glegg'...

    Thanks,

    Virginia

  • Rosefolly
    8 years ago

    Sultry_Jasmine_Nights, I hope you see this reply. I missed your question last March. I had to reduce the size of my garden due to the drought, and I gave Madame Pierre Cochet to someone who was in a better position to grow it. In fact, I ought to check and see how it did.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    7 years ago

    Great Tea thread here. Loved it all.

  • luxrosa
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    August 2016 from luxrosa;

    Additions to my "A" list of p.m. resistant Tea (and Noisette-Teas) grown in the San Francisco Bay area, in Emeryville, West Oakland, and Richmond Ca, all within c a few blocks to . 2 miles from the Bay.

    Maman Cochet and White 'Maman Cochet

    Westside Road Cream Tea (when mature) fragrant and lovely, I had to shovel prune Ducher because it defoliated from p.m..

    Rosette Dellizy

    Marie Van Houtte

    Mrs. Dudley Cross

    General Schablinike

    Lady Hillingdon

    Susan Louise can be grown as a self supporting shrub, and limbed so it has the silhouette and size of an apple tree.. Blooms all year in the s.f. bay area except for a 6 week Christmas time vacation.

    Fast growing "A" listers:

    If I were starting a Tea rose garden this year I would begin by ordering these two because they grow faster than all other Teas I've seen:

    Monsieur Tilliier, a coppery pink often with orange and red hues.

    Mrs. B.R. Cant big pink blooms. I moved mine to get afternoon shade because the blooms crisped badly when temps were in the 90"s F.

    Any rose on rootstock will grow much more quickly, I'm delighted when I find a Tea on rootstock, it's rare as a unicorn.

    B List Tea:

    Le Vesuve (China-Tea) mine is still a very small plant, so it may get on the A list when it grows larger. Very prickly, but because of its China blood it has rapid rebloom.

    Mme. Antoine Mari, it is so beautiful I overlook a light covering of p.m. in the spring. and it isn't enough to cause defoliation.

    3 Tea-Hybrids which have one Old Garden Tea parent:

    "b" list Souvenir de la Malmaison some p.m. but the real problem was that in our cool foggy coastal area the blooms were so full and thinly textured they were reluctant to open and appeared like wet tissue after a day or two. Too bad for it is a beauty and because of its Tea blood it is floriferous and reblooms quickly. .

    A" list :

    Mermaid ( I planted this in poorly amended soil, with lots of dense native clay and have kept it to 5' X 4 feet wide for the last 6 years) The bees love this rose, and I am enamored of its' scent and innocent appearing beauty. There's something special about single roses.

    Mlle. Cecille Brunner, Spray C.B. and Climbing C.B. one of the healthiest roses in the area, fragrant and darling. The Sweetheart Rose. I think it may be the most popular rose , locally from the 1800's. I see it all over the s.f. Bay area, along with white and yellow Banksiae.

    Noisette "A" list:

    Blush Noisette

    Catos Cluster (drought tolerant when mature)

    St Leonard ( a bush Noisette, I mislabeled it earlier I think. )

    Nastarana

    Mrs Woods Lavendar Noisette

    Tea- Noisettes A list

    Crepescule

    Reve d'Or

    Lamarque. far more disease resistant than M.A.C. locally, I wish I had a California Lamarque for I find its foliage more attractive. I love white roses and am planning to plant a C. jackmanii with this beauty.

    Marachal Niel Heartbreakingly lovely but mine died I believe because it never built up enough of a root system to support the plant. I hope to try again with a plant grafted onto rootstock.

    A note about Musk roses: I had to get rid of the highly prized, ultra fragrant 'Secret Garden Musk Climber' because of its' having a thick coating of powerdery mildew. I replaced it with R. moschata which does well at Morcom Amphitheatre of Roses in the s.w. corner by a staircase (with Lamarque at the top).

    To find the Old Rose Garden at Morcom park Amphitheatre of roses, do not drive to Jean Street, instead drive to the intersection of Oakland Avenue and Olive Avenue and park, and walk down the looong staircase. At the bottom is a large oval shaped garden, all the Tea and Noisettes are planted alongside the stone walls which surround the garden. In the very center are 4 pie shaped beds with China and Tea roses in two, and H.P. and D.P roses in the other two. In between the walls and the center planting are 100+ years of Hybrid Teas, introduced between 1867 and 1989 , with c. 18 different Pernetiana cultivars.

    The Florentine, (its old name in the 1940's) It is my favorite garden of the 3 rose gardens at Morcom park (the other two are the wedding rose garden, and the reflecting pool rose garden. At the top of the s.w. staircase theres a path which leads to the wedding garden and beyond it c. 3 acres of woodland, which has c. 2 dozen huge old rosebushes planted here and there in the open spaces: a half dozen or more gigantic R. brunonii, a couple other wild roses, an Alberric Barbier, Grandmothers Hat, and several unlabeled H.P.s and D.P.s .

    It is a good place to get ideas for a rose garden.

    Love,

    Lux.

    "A" list of China roses, locally

    Fabvier

    Gloire des Rosomanes (Bourbon-China)

    Caveats: Ducher defoliated from p.m. and never produced more than a handful of blooms)

    Mutabilis is always covered with p.m. but it does bloom normally, if the sight of a thick icing of p.m. does not disturb you, it is a wonderfully colorful rose.


  • Rosefolly
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I as finding myself disturbed with Mutabilis as I mentioned elsewhere. I may end up removing it. I had hopes that it might outgrow the powdered sugar effect. Sounds as though it will not.

    One rose that differed for me from yours is Mrs BR Cant. Mine did have PM. Got rid of it long ago.

    My Le Vesuve has mild PM but blooms so much I hardly notice. I hope it never bothers me enough to spur me to action. It is a thorny beast. I do prune it a bit, but mostly from below, crawling on the ground.

  • jerijen
    7 years ago

    'Mutabilis' MILDEWS for you? WOW! I've never seen that!

    Well, if you have grown it for a few years, and that does not diminish, I'd dump it. Pardon me for doubting you!

    As for 'Le Vesuve' -- That rose was as unending a fountain of mildew here as was 'Old Blush'. I still get a little mildew on "The China From Adina" which seems to be derived in some fashion from 'Old Blush' -- but THAT is from my family's TX cemetery -- and may be from the old house, so it stays, no matter WHAT. (It does not mildew in TX, of course.)

    And thank goodness that these newly-imported Chinas I'm playing with ... "5 Yuan" (Ten Thousand Camellias), 'Yuki's Dream', and the soi disant 'Alice Hamilton' have NO mildew.

  • roseseek
    7 years ago

    The lack of mildew is your warming, drying climate, Jeri. Louis Philippe and most of the Teas are mildewing up a storm for me here in Santa Maria, but today is the "HOT" day of the week. It hit a "blistering" 80 F! It is supposed to plummet to the mid to low seventies in the next two to three days and the evenings are likely to be wet...as usual. Oh, and Mutabilis (and the Banksiaes) are mildewing righteously.

  • jerijen
    7 years ago

    No no no!!! Mutabilis has never mildewed here, and still does not.

    Look at the perfect -- and I mean, rose-show-perfect foliage on "Orange Smith" a probable sport or seedling of 'Archduke Charles'. I wish I had a better look, but I was shooting through the fence.
    This rose has struggled to reach the sun, ovewhelmed by 'Bishop Darlington' -- and it is flawless.
    Nor is this one of the roses I commonly supplement with water ... I can't access it.
    Frankly, other than regular minimal irrigation, "Orange Smith" isn't much better off than it was in the cemetery where it was collected.
    But it doesn't care.
    If I was forced to move from my home, guess what would be one of the roses selected to be moved.


  • Vicissitudezz
    7 years ago

    luxrosa, I never had heard of the Morcom Park rose gardens, but now I want to go, just because I like your description of how to get there...

    We don't get much PM here, thankfully, but I will second your observation that 'MBRC' is a fast grower. I got a small rooted cutting, and it did "sleep" at first, but once she woke up, she's been leaping, not creeping.

    I have 'M. Tillier' also, but he that moweth the lawn, also likes to moveth my potted roses, so I'm not quite sure where 'MT' ended up after the latest shifting about. I seem to recall that he also got off to a quick start but then slowed down... perhaps due to his potted state?

    Kim, I'll take your "blistering" high of 80F. Can you fax it over here, please?

    Thanks,

    Virginia

  • roseseek
    7 years ago

    I fully understand, Jeri! Mutabilis only gave light mildew in Encino when it was blistering and highly water stressed. Here, it isn't either and it mildews. Now it's "dropping" to the mid to low seventies, it will likely be "whiter". The mildew isn't due to lack of air circulation, either. The wind blows and the whole yard receives it, very well! It is very easy to test for rust and mildew here and those which do either, become "mulch". Sure, Virginia! I'll trade you some "blistering heat" for some of your "extra" rain! I hope the faxes don't get stuck somewhere in between!

  • jerijen
    7 years ago

    What I think this Mutabilis sideline discussion says is .... If you want to know about disease resistance, best ask your next-door neighbor . . .

    In line with that, we gave our next door neighbor "Ragged Robin" and "Grandmother's Hat" -- and she is thrilled with both.


  • nikthegreek
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Continuing this sideline into Chinas, I can report that my young, still potted Sanguinea / Miss Lowe's / Bengal Beauty or whatever, was absolutely devoid of mildew during spring, our top mildew season when most other Teas and Chinas in my garden, not to mention many HTs, had at least some affliction. If it wasn't affected by mildew being young in a pot, I guess it will stay clean the rest of its life. It just threw out a 5 ft cane and I will need to get her in the ground asap. Unlike OB, Mutabilis and Perle D' Or in my garden, it stopped growing and blooming during the hottest summer period but has recently resumed.

    Of the 3 'true' chinas I have, I rank Sanguinea to be the best regarding PM resistance, followed by Mutabilis (multiple plants) and then OB (multiple plants). But even my OB's have mostly overcome their significant mildew tendencies as young plants and they now only get just a bit of affliction during the worst periods. I also have climbing Cramoisi Superieur but it's too young to report on.

  • Vicissitudezz
    7 years ago

    Kim, you are amazing... Friday's high (not the low) is projected to be 79F. Wow. Of course, that's when the Tropical-Depression-that-might-become-a-Tropical-Storm is passing through. Now, if I could just figure out how to send you some of our 'extra' rain... Time to build the darned pipeline already!

    Virginia

  • roseseek
    7 years ago

    What can I say? I try! LOL!

  • fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm a little confused, some of these are not entirely tea, let me know if the noisette / china hybrids should be reported on elsewhere.

    A

    Mme Antoine Mari - no sign of mildew, occasional bs exclusively on old leaves. 2 years old now

    General Schablikine - as Mme Mari.

    Beales 'Anna Olivier' - not a spot on it all season - first year rose, still tiny

    Isabella Sprunt - ditto (if the blooms didn't lose form so fast this would be my perfect yellow rose)

    Clementina Carbonieri - ditto

    Mme Jules Gravereaux - ditto, except 4ft tall, not tiny.

    Duchess D'Auerstadt - ditto, 6ft up it's arch. No blooms but immaculate.

    Lamarque has been immaculate the whole summer and has taken off like a racehorse in its pot - it's well over 6ft tall. Destined to grow over an arch onto a warm wall. I love, love, love it. Still, have to see what the damp dank winter does.

    Perle d'Or, small, first year, spotless.

    B

    Reve d'Or has had a touch of bs on the long branch that dangled in the undergrowth - once propped up that disappeared. No sign of mildew.

    Comtesse du Cayla in a pot mildewed, the one in the ground did not, so I think it's an artefact of water supply rather than the rose.

    Lady H - blackspots a bit when unhappy; i.e., I haven't watered it enough. Never mildews.

    Sanguineua - occasional spots, no mildew - in desperate need of a bigger pot, so factor that in.

    Mutabilis, never mildew, will bs and shed and regrow leaves rapidly. No more than say, 10%.

    Isabella Nabonnand - needs a new pot, some bs, but it's been swamped by an ambitious euphorbia so that might be part of it.

    Maman Cochet and Maman Cochet white - these leave me this autumn to their new up the road home. Both had a teeny touch of mildew and bs, but I think that was lack of water related. Incidentally, they ball like it's their job. They have excellent sun and air flow too.

    General Galleni is about 6 inches high in his pot and not doing much. Had a touch of mildew when in shade early this spring.

    Beale's 'Archiduc Joseph', tiny, had a touch of bs early - again was shaded.

    Souvenir de Leonie Viennot. Had a little mildew its first spring and autumn, in a pot. Clean so far this year, apart from limited bs on old leaves. It bloomed like a trouper in my hottest,driest spot.

    C

    Crepuscule mildews for me, and has done so lightly but unremittingly since it first leafed out. I am not in love with it atm, really hope it grows out of it. it is in the more moisture retentive area of the garden so I don't think it's a dry root issue, unfortunately.

    Alexander Hill Gray, ditto, also it balls, ugh. No bs though.

    Le Vesuve - doesn't mildew, does BS periodically. Don't love the effect of bare thorny canes frankly. It does bloom its socks off though.

  • jacqueline9CA
    7 years ago

    Question - sorry I am so ignorant. I seem to recall reading somewhere that urban rose growing might result in less fungal disease because of the chemicals put out by traffic? My chinas have no BS or PM or anything. Some of my teas have a tiny amount of PM, which is seasonal in our sometimes wet Springs and then disappears. We are only 5 blocks from a canal which runs right into SF Bay (which is probably 10 blocks away). However, we also live on a busy street, and are 4 blocks from Interstate Hwy 101, and will soon be 5 blocks from SMART, a brand new diesel (they claim it is "clean diesel", whatever that is) train.

    So, is my garden being protected by being in the middle of all of this auto traffic, despite its proximity to SF Bay? I don't spray and the only roses in my garden which do truly get fungal disease are 4 mid 20th century HTs (family heirlooms), which both rust and get BS.

    Jackie


  • roseseek
    7 years ago

    That was possibly true back when high sulfur fuels (coal and heating oil) were heavily used. Once low sulfur sources were pressed into service, that nightly rain of sulfur stopped. That's about when the older HPs, etc. were found to have "lost vigor" and began suffering diseases. Today's pollution consists of much more highly refined toxins. I doubt it helps with anything concerning your roses today.

  • jacqueline9CA
    7 years ago

    OK - thanks. That makes sense. I guess it is just our general climate and luck!

    Jackie


  • nikthegreek
    7 years ago

    CO2 helps all plants... lol lol