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Please Help....

Posted by desertgarden561 9/SZ11 -Las Vegas, N (My Page) on
Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 20:24

This weekend, we went over the final plans for a new walkway at the front of the house and decided not to change what exists. With the exception of adding irrigation to one area of our yard, this will be it...done... hooray!!!! (well that is, except for the spring planting)

This change gave me extra space, and all of it has plantings allocated except for the area closest to the porch. I am desperately searching for a rose bush for the final four feet. What I hope to find is a rose meeting the following criteria:
1. preferably an OGR, or at least something with an old-fashioned form

2. a slightly soft or medium pink

3. approximately 3 - 4' max in height, and up to about 4' wide

4. fragrant

5. medium or dark green leaves

6. a good repeat

7. 26+ petals....

I have been searching for two days. It seems as though everything I encounter is either too deep in color, peachey-pink, which is lovely, but will not blend well in the area, or the bush will just become too large. I thought I was done and would order La France, that is until I saw a mature image of this bush:( I am stumped and so frustrated that I have contemplated putting a big salvia leucantha there, next to lavender, which just would not be right :(

Your suggestions will be highly appreciated.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Wed, Dec 11, 13 at 20:55


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Please Help....

  • Posted by Evenie 9b - New Orleans (My Page) on
    Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 20:57

Perhaps a polyantha? I don't know if they'll do in the dry lands, but that the only thing I can think of that has that kind of growth habit in warm places.
Poking around on Google images, I found Kordes Larissa and it's very pretty. Perhaps it is not easily available, but it's a maybe.


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RE: Please Help....

hi, Lynn
While on helpmefind awhile ago, I happened across a rose grower in Las Vegas that apparently grows quite a few roses. I'm linking to her website with her list of roses and pictures. I'd been thinking about mentioning 'Bonica' to you and noticed that she grows it and lives close to you. Maybe this will be of help. If you already know about this, please excuse me. Gean

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose grower in Las Vegas


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RE: Please Help....

Pretty Jessica immediately came to my mind. I don't know that its leaves are all that dark, but neither are they light. I believe it fits all your other criteria. The repeat is good, although I don't think it's a superstar in that respect. I have mine in hot, full-day sun and, for a young plant, it has done quite well. No disease at all, and already a few blooms in addition to the ones I pinched off.

For whatever the reason my La France is growing quite slowly, although it had quite a few flowers. I've had it for two and a half years and Pretty Jessica for two years and there's not much difference in their sizes, somewhat over 2 feet tall and not much more wide than that. I've formed the opinion from what's been described on this forum that, for the most part, warm, humid climates create much larger roses than warm, dry ones, in a much shorter period of time.

Ingrid


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RE: Please Help....

Harborrose,

She used to be affiliated with the rose society here. I was not an official member, but attended a couple of meetings about 13 years ago. I first viewed the site you referenced about 10 years ago and unfortunately, it does not appear as if anything in terms of the images has been updated since. I do appreciate that recently, since I have gravitated toward the OGR's, her site provided a point of reference for me. I actually cross referenced it when making my selections a few months ago. Thank you for suggesting her site.

Evenie,

Larissa is gorgeous. I found it listed at R.U.'s site. I will need to research it as the only people in the U.S. who seem to grow it seem to reside in humid areas.

Lynn


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RE: Please Help....

Ingrid,

I had thought La France would be perfect, it is so pretty, I like its history, but feared it would become enormous; even the potential scares me. I do not like moving established roses.

My experience is that roses definitely become larger than average here, but I do not know where that falls in line with places like cooler parts of CA and Fl.? It just scares me a bit, as many of my roses become really large and tall, rapidly her, July is really the only true down month with very little disease pressure overall. I thought of Pretty Jessica too. I ordered two that are bare-root on multi-flora root stock which could be iffy here, which made me kind of reluctant to try a third, and I was hoping for something closer to the 3' size. Do you keep yours pruned down to 2' or is that where PJ wants to be?

Lynn


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RE: Please Help....

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 23:11

As I often say when mentioning a rose here, "I can't offer much experience, since mine is still a baby", but have you looked at 'Mme Dore'?

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Mme Dore' at HelpMeFind


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RE: Please Help....

Christopher, Mme. Dore is beautiful! This rose would probably be perfect; especially if it grows a little larger than the 2' cited on HMF. Cliff grows it in his High desert, so it can likely tolerate heat. The problem is, I cannot find it in stock anywhere in North America :( I have only found it being sold at one vendor. My search continues but Mme. Dore, Pretty Jessica, and Larissa are being strongly considered.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 1:13


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RE: Please Help....

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 3:03

Rose Petals Nursery and Roses Unlimited both list it in their inventory. Mine came from Vintage Gardens, but we all know that we can't get it from them anymore. If worse comes to worse, and you're patient, I can try rooting a piece of mine in the Spring. And I recall a forum member saying his 'Mme Dore' maxes at 4' X 3' (see link below). And if it sweetens the deal, I think the rose is thornless -- or, at least, mine is. Strangely, that's not mentioned at HelpMeFind. Perhaps mine will get thorny as it matures, but there aren't any on it now.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Mme. Dore, Romaggi Plot Borboun, Queen Nefertiti


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RE: Please Help....

'Mlle. Cecile Brunner' came to mind immediately, especially if you can be sure you're getting it and not its glorious behemoth sport 'Spray Cecile Brunner': they're confused in commerce, being practically identical when babies. It is a most charming rose and fits your specifications, though I don't know whether it would suit your taste. Another old rose possibility, though scentless as far as I know, is a miniature China I have whose name I'm not sure of, but it may be 'Rouletii' or 'Pompon de Paris'. My plant looks rather like a mini version of 'Old Blush', very dense and twiggy. I mention this one as you're concerned about space, but actually it might be too small: my plant is about 1.5' x 1' and is some years old though not coddled.
Melissa


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RE: Please Help....

As long as you are considering Bourbons, what about Mystic Beauty (available only at Roses Unlimited) or the nearly identical Souvenir de la Malmaison? A true beauty! My Mystic Beauty of 2 years is about 3x3.

My Pretty Jessica, by the way, is about 3 ft tall but I'm not sure it is quite that wide. It is about 4 years old. How well my Zone 6b translates to your region, I don't know.

Even better, in my opinion, would be Austin's Wildeve--pastel pink/white and about 3.5x3.5. Wish I had room left in my garden for this one.

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Wildeve


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RE: Please Help....

SDLM sounds good to me, too. I hadn't thought of that one. Oh, and how about 'Gruss an Aachen' and its sports?
Melissa


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I second "Mystic Beauty" boy, is she gorgeous and fragrant! However in my garden she is NOT pink.
Good luck Lynn, you have gotten some great suggestions!
Susan


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My SdlM has grown to be very wide and continues to grow, so I would not suggest that one. I'd forgotten about Romaggi Plot Bourbon which would be in the right size range. It didn't do much the first two years but is now a bushy and healthy plant and a willing bloomer. I would consider it a good option. My Mme. Dore is still very short and has lovely blooms, but somehow doesn't thrive nearly as well as RPB, although the flowers are probably prettier.

Pretty Jessica does not seem to grow very large no matter where it's grown and might for that reason be the logical choice.

Ingrid


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RE: Please Help....

I think that Gruss an Aachen is a bit too peachy. I have separated it and other peachy and apricot roses in my garden, mixing them with blues and purples, and it looks much better than mingled with pure or blue-tinged pinks.

The first rose that comes to mind for me is Catherine Mermet. I know that HMF says it grows 4-7 ft but it's rather upright and no more than 4' tall for us in Sacramento cemetery - and the photo of it in San Jose looks similar in growth. I've always thought of it as much as an early HT as a Tea due to its prickles and growth habit, but that is not a fault if you have a limited space. Nice fragrance and stunningly romantic double flowers. Good repeat. A genuine old rose, too, which appeals to me.
Anita


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RE: Please Help....

Thank you so much, all of you for chiming in. I know with your assistance, a rose for this space will be found.

SDLM, I have three and fear that this rose will become to large for the space and will appear more white for most of the year as opposed to pink. This eliminates SDLM and Mystic Beauty unfortunately.

Kate, Thank you for your Pretty Jessica input.

Ingrid, thank you for the SDLM information and suggesting Romaggi Plot Bourbon. It is very pretty. I will add it to the list!

Thank you Christopher. Yesterday I contacted Rose Petals via e-mail. They informed me this morning that they had one plant and that they could not take cuttings from yet, but I could put it on a wish list....... Honestly, I like this rose so much, that if it was going to be placed in a planting bed where a hole would be okay temporarily, I would initiate the protocol, but it is at the punctuation point along a walkway. I am trying to get the largest plant I can, that will hopefully grow quickly, to fend for itself. It will be in dangerous territory; where the walkway curves and leads visitors to the covered porch area.

melissa_thefarm,

Thank you for suggesting Cecile Brunner. I have heard that it does well in the heat. I had hoped to find a rose that singularly, versus planted in mass, would make more of an impact...?

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 19:02


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RE: Please Help....

I'm glad you'd already found the site; it is always encouraging to me to know someone else in my town or area is growing the same things I am. She has some nice ogr's and noticed also she rated Bonica pretty highly also.

I am about ready to pitch my Pretty Jessica; let me know if you want it by emailing through gardenweb. The blooms consistently ball here; I really think it would prefer your climate.

This post was edited by harborrose on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 18:45


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RE: Please Help....

Harborrose,

Thank you so much for the offer. Your generosity is appreciated, but, I cannot put anyone out. To me, having someone dig up a rose, packing etc. on my behalf.....it would be putting a person out.

I did find it in commerce....barely. I have a feeling that very soon, it will not be available. It seems to be widely liked by many growers. Hopefully you will be able to find a happy home for it, maybe somewhere south of you:)

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Wed, Dec 11, 13 at 0:32


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RE: Please Help....

Did you mention sage, Lynn?;) I am a salvia fiend, love 'em! Just planted 3 of desert sage, Salvia dorrii, the cultivar Gayle Nielson. This one is a winter bloomer, and thus blooming now. Foliage smells wonderful. Will get to be about 4 feet tall which is a little taller than the straight species. Also the flowers are paler. In your area it could be really happy. Another one that likes hot climes is Salvia 'Celestial Blue'. Oh my is the blue gorgeous, much more stunning in person than in any web photos I've seen. Blooms for months, smells divine, and although very drought resistant, also tolerates normal garden watering. A very versatile salvia.

One I don't have my hands on yet is Salvia mohavensis. Yep another desert dweller. Pale blue flowers on a plant with really different foliage for a native salvia, http://www.laspilitas.com/nature-of-california/plants/salvia-mohavensis

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: Desert Purple Sage aka Salvia dorrii


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Hi Melissa,

Yes, I have salvia and other drought tolerant plants intermingled with roses. In the past, I found that they grow nicely with roses; especially once the roses become established.

In this desert, and with the drought conditions, many homeowners try to be water-smart. We also have watering restrictions.

I like the purple shade and flowers on Salvia Dorni. It would compliment various colors of rose:)

Lynn


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About 'Mlle. Cecile Brunner' and impact, you may be right. On the other hand, it's one of those roses that repays close inspection, and so needs to be where you can see it close up. I don't know whether this would be desirable in the place you're looking for a rose for. Also I'm a foliage fiend, and love my roses for their growth habit, canes, and leaves, and I think CB would be very satisfactory in this respect.
Obviously I can't weigh these considerations for you, not being able to see the spot and evaluate it myself and not having your eyes and your taste in plants, which inevitably will be more or less different from my own.
I was out yesterday planning out a section of garden and so I have design on my mind.
Melissa


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RE: Please Help....

Melissa, I have not seen most of the roses in person. I do prefer nice foliage which generally to me is fairly dense, or in good proportion to the roses.

The roses in the vicinity of the empty space are Clotilde Soupert, Marie Pavie, SDLM, Bolero, and Pretty Jessica. It will be closest to Clotilde Soupert and Marie Pavie will be adjacent to it. I had hoped for a complimentary pink that is darker than SDLM but not beyond Pretty Jessica.

In addition to never seeing many of these roses in person, I am new to OGR's and roses that do not have a non-modern look, but know what I like when I see it. I have only designed with modern roses, and did not find the variety or form etc., as compared to the OGR's, as variable, or maybe it was just my focus. This in large part is why I study the gardens on this forum and the www, looking for elements or keys to designing with OGR's. I also frequently look to the advice of you all. Any input you can provide is welcomed and appreciated. If it doesn't apply for me with the walkway, I often file it away and it is referred to for some other space.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Wed, Dec 11, 13 at 15:20


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CB's foliage and general plant style are similar to those of 'Marie Pavie', with smooth slender canes and smallish, dark, refined foliage. Both are Polyanthas. In fact I have these two planted side by side, but I don't know that they'd be the best to have next to each other in your bed, since there'd be no foliage contrast: I like the alternation of different kinds of foliage, and flower styles as well, with large alternating with small blooms.
Part of what bothers me about modern roses is that there's little variation in foliage, and too often, old fashioned blooms sit on a plant like a Hybrid Tea. All this is quite dull, and different from the range of leaf and habit, not to mention buds and hips and bark, of the many, varied old roses.
Count me in as another Salvia enthusiast. I envy California Melissa's collection.
Melissa in Italy


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