Return to the Antique Roses Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a (My Page) on
Tue, Dec 3, 13 at 22:01

Any suggestions for a relatively vigorous pinkish (but not neon pink) repeating lfc for my Med climate? I was thinking kind of a New Dawn sans the mildew problems, but it doesn't have to be that vigorous since roses tend to get large anyway over here. Shouldn't need too much TLC though. Since I'm in Europe I will not be able to obtain an exclusively US rose but let me hear your suggestions anyhow.

Having said this, is New Dawn really such a PM magnet as some people report? I have no personal experience with it.

BTW is this the right forum to post this or should I also post it in the general roses forum?
Thanks, Nik


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

You might look at Austin's Wedgwood climber--fat, fully packed, pastel pink blooms. It is supposed to be very disease-resistant, but I haven't had mine long enough to verify any long-term performance.

Austin's St. Swithun climber is supposed to be quite disease-resistant also. I don't grow it, but I've seen the bloom--full open pastel pink bloom.

A more vigorous Austin climber is Mortimer Sackler. I grow it--disease-resistant, blooms are somewhat darker pink than the first two I named above, but still in the light pink range. The bloom isn't quite as "refined" as as the above blooms, but is more--shall we say--"exuberant." I like but don't exactly "love" my Mortimer Sackler.

Hope that helps.

Kate


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Thanks Kate, but I was really looking for something other than Austins (for a change!). As I said, New Dawn was on my list, since I like my roses to have a bit of history in them if it's possible, until I came across reports of it mildewing (and rusting) badly. BS is not a real problem where I live but PM and to a (much) lesser extent rust is. Long hot and dry summer, warm and wet late autumn and early spring, and cool and wettish winter seem to help these diseases.

Last time I tried to compare my climate with California I came to the conclusion that parts of central Cal most closely resemble my climate although it's very difficult to compare due to a large variation in microclimate. Latitude wise, fwiw, we're almost exactly on the 38th parallel. Nik


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Some of the climbers we in the US suggest might not be available in Europe, so hopefully more of the continental folks will chime in. Pink climbers that I find lovely and pretty trouble free are Nahema (a very double, fragrant and fast growing Delbard), Compassion (pink, troublefree, and fragrant), and Aloha (big stiff canes so you have to train them early, but typical "rose looking" flowers). I don't think any of these are known for rust or mildew but I'm a bad judge since we don't get those problems. Suzy (campanula) will have a different spin on Nahema since it doesn't do well for her in England.

You're definitely in the right forum if you like roses with history, and that would include some of the darker pinks like Reines des Violettes or Madame Isaac Periere (fragrant to die for, but probably a darker pink than you like). Madame Carolyn Testout is a very strong and vigorous light pink climber that I love, and it has some history. I don't know how long Viking Queen has been around, but it's a real keeper for me as well. Most of the lighter pinks that are OGRs are liable to be noisette or tea types that I can't grow, so I'll let warm weather folks chime in from here.

Of course, New Dawn is a classic climber, but it does have a reputation for being a thorny house eater in your type of climate.

Cynthia


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

I'm not sure how large the blooms are, but Ogrose has a Cl. Pinkie that is incredible.

Josh


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Nik. I have The New Dawn climbing through my apricot tree.
It is very vigorous and flowers well in spring, but not profusely at other times.

042

On the other hand, Colombian Climber which came from Peter Beales Roses, flowers profusely most of the time.
It does not get as big as The New Dawn. Mine is about 12-15 feet/ 4-5 metres, but flowers a lot more.
It's perfume is lovely and always there. I can go out in the middle of a chilly winters night or in the afternoon of the hottest day of the year and it's perfume is always gorgeous.

Here it is in spring 2008. This is it's first ever bloom.
Since that day, it has never,ever,ever had a day without blooms.

colombian climber photo P5110055.jpg

colombian climber photo P5140063.jpg

A year later.
 photo 057.jpg

...and with Clematis Perle d'Azur.

sandy5 110
Daisy


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Sorry Nik. I forgot to say that The New Dawn and Colombian Climber have no disease problems at all in my garden, although there is plenty of powdery mildew on other roses.
Daisy


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Hi daisy, nice to talk here also. Glad to hear yours don't suffer from PM. Very strange disease this one, it is also position dependent I think. Columbian Climber is actually on my wish list at Beales' but I was looking for a more rambler-like climber in terms of growth for this particular spot. Now I'm thinking again. How's the wind over there these days? Here we've had gale force winds and I was out a few minutes ago assesing the damage.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

In my experience,New Dawn had no disease problems,but it was indeed a thorny monster; I always absolutely dreaded pruning it,which I had to do since I had foolishly planted it in the middle of my garden. I tried moving it (it was huge) but it didn't survive (didn't water it enough after the move). Eventually I hope to get another one, but this time will place it where it can just do it's own thing and I won't have to mess with it. I'm in Italy, so I'd guess that in Greece ND would probably get at least as big as mine. It grew by putting out tons of long, long laterals,too,so more in the style of May Queen than of, say, Alexander Girault.
How I wish I could find a source for Climbing Pinkie here in Europe!!!!!If anyone knows, please spill!!!!!!
That Columbian Climber looks great; I'd like to add that to my garden! bart


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Where and what will the rose be growing on, up or against. I ask because ventilation issues can affect mildew, especially when grown against a wall...and also, growth habits are hugely variable, especially regarding the laxity or stiffness of the canes, the propensity to throw many basals (all the multiflora ramblers) and the capacity to repeat.
I am very ambivalent about New Dawn since it is indeed healthy, even against a brick wall in my garden, but it does need careful shaping and regular tying in....and it is very iffy about repeating too - needing absolute vigilance with deadheading.....yet it is a beautiful classic rose.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Hi campanula,

It will be grown along a chainlink fence and up / through a couple of trees at the property/field border. At least, this is the plan. With regards to deadheading, I don't think it will be receiving much if it grows over and through all these.. I don't expect these kind of roses to have much more than a spring and a lesser autumn flush in my hot summer climate.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

I meant to say 'property (field) border'


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Maybe Blossomtime? I’ve only had mine a year, but it’s been very healthy for me so far. HMF lists it as very mildew resistant, but blackspot is our problem here, rather than mildew or rust, so I can’t really say if that’s accurate. It doesn’t seem quite as vigorous as its parent, New Dawn, but a good grower, nonetheless, and blooms repeatedly…much better than New Dawn did here. It is just as thorny, though. My intention is for it to grow as a self-supporting, arching shrub, but it's classified as a climber and growth on mine so far seems like it would be easy to train (except for all those thorns).


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

I would recommend the old (1901) Climbing HT 'Cl Madame Caroline Testout'. It is large flowered. Here is a pic of it climbing up my chimney - since I took this pic 2 years ago it has climbed up higher - I would estimate it is now at least 20 feet high. I do clean up the bottom of it, but believe me, I do not climb up 20 feet to dead head it! Mine is a clone from an old plant which grew in the back yard of a vacant old house for decades with no care at all. That one grew up into an old plum tree. It is now being cared for, and is still going strong in partial shade.

Here is a pic of mine, which gets no mildew here, no rust, and just a tiny bit of blackspot in the Spring.

Jackie


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Jackie, thank you for reminding me of MCT. It too is on my Beales' wish list, I'll consider it for this spot. I wonder how it might do with real tree root competiition. Maybe this rose is worth a better spot. Nik


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Hmmmm, judging from Beale's comments about MCT (below) and Jackie's comments above, it seems MCT may be a good candidate to compete with New Dawn for that spot.

Growing in poorer soils
Growing up a north facing wall
Growing in shady areas
Growing into a tree
Growing in a warm climate
Growing as a hardy cultivar


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

I love, love it. And, the individual blooms are gorgeous - globular (but don't ball), blowsy, and old fashioned - I think of it as a hybrid tea before they ruined them.

Jackie


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Jackie the blooms look great!

One the subject of older HT climbers, anybody has experience of the war period British HT climber Home Sweet Home? Is this a rose I could also consider for that spot? Is it a true repeat bloomer?


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Well, the most amazingly beautiful, vigorous climbing HT is also one of my all time favourites - have bored on endlessly about this gorgeous rose - Madame Gregoire Staechelin aka Spanish Beauty. Everything about this rose is utterly fabulous - from the first light green matte foliage, through to the 6weeks of lush nodding blooms, redolent of sweet peas in fragrance, culminating in clusters of massive deep apricot heps - this rose was my first OGR and will always have a prime place in any garden....but originating from the Mediterranean (one of Dot's masterpieces), it should be just the ticket as a tree climbing healthy, fragrant rose for you.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Ha ha campanula!! I'm expecting Spanish Beauty to be delivered bareroot any day now, destined for another spot. Thanks for the thumbs up, much appreciated. Nik


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Nik, it's often been mentioned that New Dawn is not a great rose for a Mediterranean climate. It does not like the summer heat and dryness and doesn't bloom much other than spring in those conditions. Having grown it I don't think the flowers are that special either. Cl. La France may be another rose to consider; it looks very much like Caroline Testout and is very fragrant. I don't have the climber but the bush La France is tolerant of my heat and the blooms stay large.

Ingrid


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

  • Posted by titian1 Sydney, Australiae (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 4, 13 at 19:29

I've grown New dawn, and 2nd everyone's experience of the the thorns. It also had no disease for me. Someone else mentioned Blossomtime, which is the one I was going to suggest to you. I haven't grown it, but would love to. Vita Sackville West grew it at Sissinghurst. I've read that you can do anything with it, ie grow it as a pillar or let it go. HMF doesn't mention it's heat tolerance.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Jackie's picture of Mme. Caroline Testout is outstanding and I agree that it's a great rose with good disease resistance as well as a history for you to choose. One word of caution based on my MCT is that the canes get very stiff pretty soon in its growth, and you'll want to make sure to bend the canes early as the rose starts to climb. There may be a challenge to get the canes to bend far enough to be horizontal on a low chain link fence (particularly in Mediterranean zones). Jackie's climbs up a tall vertical wall, and while it curves admirably in true climber shaping, it does so on the way to being vertical. Mine does the same pattern zigzagging up a freestanding arch in my yard. I'm having trouble picturing this rose easily bending far enough to spread along a 3-4' high fence, and my experiences with trying to do that kind of shaping with another stiff-caned climber (Polka) have been, well, challenging. Some climbers want to stretch upwards.

Still, it's a lovely choice, it just may not be a terrific "draper" over a relatively low surface, if that's what you have in mind.

Cynthia


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Blossomtime sounds like a good option but I think it will be hard to source as bareroot over here. It seems that not many nurseries grow it.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Well, you could really push the boat out and go for another of my long-time favourites (but have never grown, lacking both space or climate conditions) and consider Belle Portugaise. Or Susan Louise, a seedling of BP but hard to find in Europe.

Also, the Barbier hybrids, especially Leontine Gervaise and Auguste Gervaise would be excellent choices for a chainlink fence, having that wichurana lineage, they have health and good foliage while being limber enough to bend and shape (I have LG and do exactly that, growing it along low horizontal wires).

Finally, more apricot than pink, but a tree climber and house devourer - Treasure Trove, a sport of that other well-known monster, Kiftsgate. Melissa, in Italy, grows this and will, hopefully, expand on her choices of roses for a mediterranean roses.

So glad Madame G is destined for planting. It was the gateway rose for me - my prior experience had always been a bit meh with the likes of Queen Elizabeth. Nowt wrong with that.....but dull and generic.....until chancing upon Madame G, in full bloom on a pergola - I had an epiphany and gained a rose mentor (who promptly introduced me to species roses and old european shrubs). Queen Elizabeth (and Blue Moon) vanished from my garden and Zepherine Drouhin, R.primula, New Dawn and Madame G were swiftly planted. Never looked back!


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

I have Belle Portugaise - it is one of my favorite roses. The blooms are huge and elegant. However, I am not sure about putting it on a fence. It grows in several old gardens in my neighborhood, and all of those bushes go UP between 10 and 15 feet before they spread out and bloom. Mine did not bloom at all until its 5th Spring - folks around here who know about that rose told me it has to get to what it considers its proper height before it will bloom. Mine has been blooming every Spring ever since, for about a month. Luckily the blooms nod, because they are all at least 10 feet off the ground. I get a crick in my neck admiring them. A picture is attached - looking up at it, of course.

I got Susan Louise with great expectations about 8 years ago, but mine has done nothing much - still barely 2 feet high. The blooms are the same color and rough shape of those of BP, but not at all as beautiful. I think it must be a seedling, not a sport.

Jackie


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

For me, the New Dawn descendants, as well as the sport White New Dawn, did not grow at all well in CA, hot and dry, zone 9 conditions. I don't know if it was the alkali soil, high temps or lack of water they did not like, but they grow far better for me in NY. Maritime influence, if you are not far from the sea, might moderate the worst heat and keep the air moist. I was inland, behind a mountain range, about 200 miles from the Pacific Ocean.

Have you considered Noisettes or climbing teas ? Some which are quite lovely are Lady Waterlow, Noelle (or is it Marie?) Nabonand, Elle Beauvilain. Most of these are very flexible, and blooming is almost continuous where conditions are favorable.

Can you get a hold of a copy of Climbing Roses of the World, by Charles Quest-Ritson? He gives a lot of space to warm climate varieties which might be available in Europe.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

along a chain-link fence and 'up through a couple of trees'. The bit in quotes was my focus, hence my prodding (I only ever get to enjoy Belle Portugaise vicariously but I dunno - maybe sprawling up a south facing poplar?
I have never seen Susan Louise but it sounds a tad disappointing.
And just to stir in a bit more confusion, how about the sempervirens ramblers - the Princesses Marie and Louise?


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Actually, in that described position, New Dawn might be OK,since it sounds like it's not a central area of the garden. Or you could try Awakening, which is supposedly just like New Dawn but with fuller flowers.When I get a new New Dawn, that's the sort of spot I'd put it in: on the edge of the garden,where it can help fight off intruders! But if re-bloom isn't a priority for you,I'd think you'd have LOTS of options! I just added Paul Transon and Rene Andre to my garden, for example. Sooner or later I hope to add Mme. Gregoire Staechelin; maybe next year...and Paul Noel, Francois Juranville...There's also Emmanuela de Mouchy; I think that does re-bloom...bart


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Hi Nik,

We are also in zone 9 (central California) and are growing Awakening. It is quite vigorous and thorny and slow to repeat and suffered severely with powdery mildew in the spring. The flowers are not that exciting, around 3 inches across.

We bought a grafted Radio Times rose (Rosa multiflora rootstock) around 3 years ago and planted it around 8 feet from the base of a Krauter Vesuvius flowering plum tree. RT decided the it would be more fun to grow as a climber and began to throw up long canes. The canes have invaded the canopy of this tree and you can now see huge (4-5 inch) spectacular flowers peeking through the purple foliage as you come down the street. Most of the flowers are, unfortunately, out of reach. And so one of my winter projects is to cut this monster back and plant it near a rail fence and train the canes horizontally. The repeat is much better than that of Awakening and the flowers are quite beautiful, thickly petalled and very fragrant. Downside: it is a bit thorny and suffers from a touch of mildew (as do many roses with exceptional fragrance) from time to time.

Two other pink English rose climbers that we are growing are Spirit of Freedom (own root) and Wedgewood Rose (grafted). Both would be good roses for you to consider. Any yet another is The Generous Gardener, which is a blush pink to blush apricot. TGG seems to have less mildew than the others and has dark green, glossy foliage which is quite attractive.

Good luck in your choice!

John


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Thank you all for your input and great ideas. I will need time to process all this info and decide what to do and where to plant ND if not at the spot I was thinking. I'm still ambivalent.

In the meantime, a batch of new roses has arrived yesterday along with New Dawn and I will need to take care of the planting soon. Why do bare root orders always arrive on a Monday and when the weather is absolutely horrible for planting? Moan...

In case you're interested the new plants are apart from New Dawn:

Paul's Himalayan Musk, Mme Gregoire Staechelin, Paul Noel, Sombreuil, Cl. Cecille Brunner, Felicite Perpetue, Perle d' Or and Lady of Shallot.

If someone thinks any of these is not suitable for my med climate please speak now or be forever silent! lol
Nik


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Top roses, there, Nik.
Have been following the politicking in Greece with some anxiety (given the horrid resurgence of ultra-right ideologies currently infesting Europe) - hope all is peaceable where you are. Worrying times for us all.

I recall my very first order of bare-roots arriving early one freezing November morning - I was so excited, I was outside, ripping open boxes and messing about in the planting holes, still wearing my nightie - only realised how wet and cold I was when I came back inside. Course, I am jaded now, and moan along with everyone else.


 o
RE: Help to choose a pink-ish large flowered cl.

Campanula, political and ideological upheaval most often follows dramatically declining socioeconomic conditions along with loss of trust in the established order in the country and in Europe. I use my job (I still have one, don't know for how long) and my garden (ditto) to help keep my mind off nasty thoughts. Sometimes this works, often it doesn't.
Nik


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Antique Roses Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here