Check out the Growing Under Lights forum for a lot of the answers you seek. They've got a lot of good ideas for setting up something that doesn't costs a lot but does the trick. I've never had any luck with overwintering rosemary. The humidity requirements always kill mine.

Thanks, I'll head over to that topic.

My Dad has had the same rosemary plants for years and does nothing more that keep the plants (during the winter) under some lights in his basement. I've obviously skipped those rosemary-growing genes...

foodfiend_gardener,

I think that chrome wire steel shelves are a good start toward inexpensive plant stands. Use inexpensive 4-foot fluorescent shoplights as your lights. My shoplights came from Home Depot and cost about $8 per two-bulb fixture (bulbs extra). Use inexpensive 6500K cool white T8 bulbs. This is a picture of my setup three years ago, when we were renting where we had access to sunlit windows, which helped with the light.

{{gwi:1768}}
We have since moved to a rural farmhouse where I have access to the basement utility room, and my shelves are wholly dependent on my fluorescent lights there. I may be able to set up some shelves in front of south-facing upstairs windows a little later.

I got a good buy on some 4-foot by 2-foot shelves a few years ago (the ones in the picture), and they are my primary shelves because they have room for up to four shoplights (8 bulbs) per shelf. They accommodate four standard trays per shelf. I overdrive some of my fixtures for increased light output. Incidentally, my steel shelves are not bent as they appear in the picture. That is lens distortion from my Wife's inexpensive point-and-shoot camera.

I have some smaller (18" x 48") shelf units that I got for about $80 per unit from Sam's Club. Costco has had similar units. They will probably be my upstairs units because they take up less space. I use three shoplights per shelf with them.

ZM

Zenman, that is an amazing setup. Everyone keeps saying those lights fixtures are $8-$10. Cheapest I see them now is $18 at Lowe's in Georgia. Is there a better time of the year to buy them when they are cheap than now?

Also, I saw the rack at Home Depot for $100, but it doesn't have the wheels. Did you just put the wheels on yourself?

Oh yeah, what made you decide 3 per rack? How do you calculate the necessary light output?

Those are commercial shelf racks that are used in many Hospitals and other businesses. They are quite sturdy and can take a lot of use and abuse When I worked in the hospital as a cook we rolled them outside and used pressure hoses to clean them without any problems. They should last a persons life time with not problems.

My own setup has been much smaller and simpler than zenman's, although, that is gorgeous! I've found a couple of shoplights at garage sales, usually for just a few dollars. I've then rested the ends on end tables or little cubby shelves, with my plants sitting below on the floor.

To minimize light needs early in the season, I start 10-20 seeds in each pot. Then after they've germinated and started to grow, I transplant into individual pots. Sometimes by then the hardier plants can be moved outside and the less hardy get the remaining light space.

Peaceful_Warrior,

"Everyone keeps saying those lights fixtures are $8-$10. Cheapest I see them now is $18 at Lowe's in Georgia. Is there a better time of the year to buy them when they are cheap than now?"

Prices keep going up. The 2-bulb 48-inch T8 shoplights were $6 each when I first started my indoor gardening in 2005 and some people even found them for $4 each on Home Depot close-outs. It was several years ago when I bought my last batch of shoplights, and they were $8 each at Home Depot. I have noticed the much higher prices now, so I am not buying replacement shoplights. Instead, I refurb my existing ones as they burn out. The main item of expense in a shoplight is the digital electronic ballast. (Avoid the older analog magnetic ballasts.) When I replace a burned out ballast, I use a higher quality ballast or ballasts, so I am improving my fixtures when I refurb them. By replacing one ballast with two, I am converting conventional fixtures into overdriven fixtures, for significantly higher light output.

"Did you just put the wheels on yourself?"

All of my chrome steel shelf units came with wheels. I did not get any of my shelving units from Home Depot. The 18-inch shelves came from Sam's Club (about $80 per unit) and the 24-inch shelves came from Northern Tool on a special sale (about $120 per unit). The larger 2' x 4' units came with 5-inch swivel wheels, and the smaller 18" x 4' units came with 3-inch wheels. Two of the wheels on each unit are lockable. However, I leave the wheel locks unengaged. It is handy to be able to move the shelves around easily. I wouldn't buy shelves without wheels, although I think you can find wheels as accessories that you can add on. But I think it is much less expensive to just purchase shelves that come with wheels.

"...what made you decide 3 per rack?"

Three per shelf was the most shoplights I could physically fit over the 18-inch deep shelves. Each shoplight is 5 to 6 inches wide with the reflector. Four shoplights are the most that will fit over my 24-inch deep shelves, and I have to cut a notch in their reflectors (on the 6-inch reflector models) to make that happen.

Unless I find some really good sale on shoplights, I will quit buying them and start buying striplights instead, because they take up less space than shoplights and you can get more in a given space.

"How do you calculate the necessary light output?"

In general, I try to get as much light output as I can, particularly on my plants that prefer full sun, like zinnias for example. I use a light meter to measure the light on my plants. Using four overdriven fluorescent fixtures over a 2'x4' shelf, my plants get about 1000 foot candles. That is subjectively bright, but sunlight has 5000 to 8000 foot candles. If I could afford it, I would install some HID lighting. They say you have to wear sunglasses for eye protection when you use those.

ZM

You can pick up the 48" shop lights at walmart for just under $10. They are t12's. YOu can get the t8's for $15.

bob

I have read where people have said to stay away from T12's. Why is that?

Also Zenman, will it state whether its a digital electronic ballast or older analog magnetic ballast?

Peaceful_Warrior,

"I have read where people have said to stay away from T12's. Why is that?"

T12's are a very old inefficient design. A 4-foot T12 will typically draw 40 watts, while a 4-foot T8 will typically draw 32 watts, and put out more light in the process. Also, you can usually find T8's at a lower price and in more variety of color balances. And T12's contain more mercury.

"...will it state whether its a digital electronic ballast or older analog magnetic ballast?"

It may very well not include the word "digital" in the description. Mine are labelled "Electronic Ballast, High Power Factor, Instant Start, Min Starting Temp 0ðF". So the words "electronic" and "magnetic" are probably the ones to look for. At the time people were making analog devices they didn't know there would ever be digital devices, so they didn't use the word "analog". We were living in an analog world at that time, so the word went without saying.

ZM

zenman, that's a very nice setup. I notice that you lay the trays directly on the wire shelves, but I'm concerned about watering plants with the light fixtures below, unprotected. Is there some sort of clear liner that I'm not seeing? Or am I being overly cautious?

And what do you all think about using some sort of "cover" to keep in the heat versus something like a heated germination mat beneath the trays? 60-65 degrees seems to be cool for starting plants and maintaining herbs through the winter.

foodfiend_gardener,

There was and is no clear liner. However, my white plastic trays don't leak.

"And what do you all think about using some sort of "cover" to keep in the heat versus something like a heated germination mat beneath the trays? 60-65 degrees seems to be cool for starting plants and maintaining herbs through the winter."

I agree, 60-65 degrees is too cool for germinating a lot of plants. That picture was taken of my setup three years ago, when I had my plant stands in a warm living area. Today, I have added a third plant stand and I am currently using heat mats with a layer of corrugated cardboard under them for insulation, because our basement utility room is closed off and a bit cooler than the finished area of the basement and the rest of the house. My heat mats are controlled by thermostats that I set at about 80 degrees. Incidentally, I use humidity domes over my seed trays until they germinate.

The heat mats are waterproof, so if water gets on them that isn't a problem. I still use the trays to catch any runoff. My fixtures and wall sockets have a standard 3-wire service, which includes a ground wire that affords a degree of protection.

If you are concerned about water shorting any of your electrical hookup, install your plant stand on a ground fault circuit. Then, if there is any current leakage that doesn't go to the ground wire, the GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) breaker will trip. Bathroom wall sockets and exterior receptacles are almost always on a ground fault circuit, and sometimes that same circuit services other wall receptacles in your house. You could conceivably already have a GFCI wall socket available. Otherwise, you could have an electrician install a GFCI circuit for your indoors gardening use.

If that is going to cost too much, although I wouldn't recommend it, you could just run a three-wire exterior grade extension cord from a bathroom wall socket to your plant stand setup. However, extension cords can be a trip hazard.

ZM

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me with this. :)

There is a GFCI outlet in the room where I want to place the plant stands. It is on the wall opposite the windows, so I can run an extension around the perimeter of the room. I'll buy some new trays to make sure they won't leak!

So I should use a heat mat to germinate and start the seedlings, after they are transplanted will the bulb heat be enough to keep them growing or would I use the heat mats then as well? I'm assuming that the herb plants will be okay w/o additional heat.

foodfiend_gardener,

"I'll buy some new trays to make sure they won't leak! "

Vacuum formed trays are inexpensive, but even the new ones are so thin that I wouldn't trust them. I use white PermaNestî trays because they are rigid and long lasting, and the color white encourages me to keep them clean. I got my PermaNest trays from Indoor Gardening Supply because they offer a choice of colors and sizes. I use the 11 x 22 x 2.5 size trays. Mine are pretty old, so they are more an ivory color than the original white. I think iron salts in nutrient solutions tend to stain the trays. I use CLRî in an attempt to restore their original color, but ivory isn't a bad color either. Green is probably the most popular PermaNest color, and some suppliers carry only the green.

"So I should use a heat mat to germinate and start the seedlings, after they are transplanted will the bulb heat be enough to keep them growing or would I use the heat mats then as well?"

If you are using a thermostat, which I recommend, it will keep the heat mat turned off as long as the sensor temperature is above the temperature you have set on the thermostat. I don't plug my heat mats into the timers, so that during the dark period when things tend to get cool, the thermostat can still turn on the heat mat if the sensed temperature falls below the set temperature. My heat mats and thermostats are products of HydroFarm. My thermostats are an older analog model which apparently is no longer available. Presumably the new digital models are more accurate.

I don't know whether your herb plants will need additional heat or not.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Thanks again, zenman. I really appreciate your listing your sources for supplies as I don't have a clue. ;)

Sam's Club does have the shelves which you used and I will buy one when I return next week (this time, with my husband since I walked around for so long looking for someone to help me that I got tired and left!)

foodfiend_gardener,

"...I will buy one when I return next week (this time, with my husband..."

And get someone from the store to help you load them into your car. The package is rather long and bulky and heavy. By the same token, those shelves are very strong.

ZM

Penman, I love that your carts are 24 inches deep. Do you know the brand of them? I looked for them at northerntool
com, but didn't have any luck. Thanks! Also, on the 18 inch deep carts, how tdo you arrange your trayscarts to maximize the space?

nostalgicfarm,

"I love that your carts are 24 inches deep. Do you know the brand of them? I looked for them at northerntool.com, but didn't have any luck."

It was their Adjustable Shelf Cart, Item# 143011. Apparently they are currently sold out. I am glad I got three of them before they ran out. All three are now in service. Their shelves are fully adjustable on 1-inch increments, and I spaced them out so that the bottom shelves are all the way to the bottom, unlike in the NorthernTool picture.

Shelving with 24-inch deep shelves are available from many sources, but all that I have seen are priced much higher than the units I got.

Stainless steel wire shelving is even available, but it is very expensive. I think the stainless steel units are used primarily in restaurants and hospitals that may have rules that require stainless steel. I am sure that stainless steel would outlast chrome plated steel, but my chrome steel units are still going strong after many years of use, with no visible signs of rust, despite exposure to wet conditions.

"Also, on the 18 inch deep carts, how do you arrange your trayscarts to maximize the space?"

Well, when I was really short of space, I loaded four 11 x 22 Permanest trays, overlapped their edges to make them fit between the vertical steel poles, and just let them stick out front and back. The problem with that is that the plants in the ends of the trays weren't under the lights, so I discontinued that. I got a few non-standard trays to fit the 18-inch shelves. But I mostly just load two 11 x 22 PermaNest trays lengthwise. Two 22x11 trays fit just fine, and the plants are all under the lights that way.

My 24-inch shelving came with only four shelves per unit, while my 18-inch Sam's Club shelving came with six shelves per unit, and included fencing, which is handy for keeping things from falling off the back or ends of the shelves.

ZM

ZM-
Wow! Thanks for your quick and thorough response. I too like the OP am trying to get it "figured out" this year. I love your setup and it is similar but different from what I was planning. In the past I have had lights dangling from the ceiling and my plants on a foldable buffet table. It was not a good system. (For me anyway.) I am grateful for the Northern Tool link even though it is sold out as I would not have picked that from their picture...it looks much nicer in your picture. Thanks again!

soonergrandmom,

"I also have my light fixtures plugged into surge protectors so that I can control all of the lights by just flipping a switch rather than plugging and unplugging cords. "

I do the same, but not just for the convenience. The electronic ballasts in many fluorescent shoplights are susceptible to damage from voltage spikes, and the surge protectors extend their life.

Incidentally, thanks for that mylar blanket idea. Besides the heat insulation, yours are doing an impressive job of reflecting back the light. I think I will be giving your idea a try.

ZM

I use the old standard 100 watt lightbulbs on a desk light with no shade for my heat source. The room is 68-70 but the trays on the shelf are 80-85 degrees. I also use 2 light 48 inch shop lights using one reg bulb & one daylight. In Lowes look for the Utilitech "utility lights.

Have you concidered doing some winter sowing? It might save you a lot of space and it works !
It may not work for everything, but lots of flowers and veggies do great with this method.

Hi Zen_Man i wanted to know if this shelve is almost like the one you posted in the photo above cause i'm planing to buy one soon so i can start seeds indoors

Amazon link of Shelve