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samnsarah

Shrubs for hot afternoon sun, freezing winter temps, and drought

Tim
11 years ago

I am beginning to plan my shrub and perennial garden on the West side of my house. I am interested in the Lo and Behold Purple Haze Butterfly Bush. I am also considering the
Double Take Scarlet Storm Flowering Quince.
Does anyone with experience or knowledge of these shrubs know if they will do well in morning shade and hot afternoon sun, drought, wind, and well-drained sandy soil al in zone 6b?
Also, does anyone know of any other shrubs that would thrive under these conditions?

Comments (26)

  • hortster
    11 years ago

    "Everything can get something." A drastically overused phrase in horticulture, albeit true. Having said that, here are some plants that can deal with hot afternoon sun, freezing temps and drought (and some morning shade):

    Juniper spp. (bagworms, mites)
    Manhattan euonymus (scale, crown gall)
    Mojave or Yukon Belle pyracantha (paiful thorns)
    Willowwood, Juddi or Prague viburnum
    Rose-of-Sharon, Hibiscus syriacus ("tips back" at -5 to -10 degrees)
    Mentor barberry (thorns). NOT invasive HERE.
    Lilacs, Syringa spp. (borers, mildew)
    Mockorange, Philadelphus spp.
    MANY Spireas (Spiraea spp.)
    Gro-low fragrant sumac Rhus aromatica 'Gro-low'

    All of these have done well in general over many years. I have quite a few in my yard and, although it is possible to have the pests listed these have given me minimal problems when given decent maintenance. My soil is clay but I have used these in a variety of soils.

    I'm sure there are many that could also be on this list.

    hortster

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    11 years ago

    i hope you do understand.. EVERYTHING.. will need complete and proper watering.. to get fully ESTABLISHED.. for at least one year ....

    before one can consider them free range.. and bulletproof in sand ...

    the quince should be near bulletproof after such ...

    euonymus scale is prevalent.. i would avoid all at all cost ... the rest of the list above is pretty good.. and the problems listed are usually not that common ... [except your house.. now that i said they werent.. lol] ..

    ken

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the info. I'm glad I have several options to choose from. I'm especially glad to hear that the Quince will do well. I am well aware that at least one year of deep watering is needed to get plants established, especially in the area that I live in. But thanks, Ken, for the reminder. I appreciate it.
    You didn't mention anything about the Butterfly Bush though. Do you think it would do well too?

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    11 years ago

    BBush dont winter over in my MI ...

    all i can tell you is.. i have lost ten ...

    ken

  • hortster
    11 years ago

    Two things - butterfly bush must be thought of at as a BIG perennial here - mild winter, a shrub, below zero for a brief jiffy probably to the ground. My quinces have morning SUN and afternoon shade, but thrive. Quince goes full sun to part shade, anytime of day.

    Ken, I have had Manhattans here for almost 20 years. I know that scale is prominent around here, but for some reason have had NONE (I am presently causing my knuckles to bleed knocking on wood). Maybe those suckers know that the hortster, upon first notice, will smoke their azz, but have never had to try. Never had a problem with E. gall, either. Scale seems to affect vertical growing euonymus vars. more often in my experience.

    Ken, you also need triple plastic tents all winter with a 150W bulb for heat 24/7/winter in MI for BB.

    plantingman, butterflybush can be great here, but probably not on the west side if you want a shrub. West side infers NW winter wind, therefore, during a snap to zero likely to the ground. Perennial, yes, espically if mulched.

    hortster

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    11 years ago

    my euonymus point.. was simply.. there are hundreds .. if not thousands of shrubal options. why bother with a plant that has problems ... [new word there.. lol]

    one way to do this.. with camera/phone in hand.. is to simply find shrubs that strike your fancy in spring around the area ... snap a pic.. find name here.. and add to your collection ...

    ken

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    11 years ago

    hey hort.. you are the local on this post.. what about the following .. all from my z5 MI garden .. you all can figure out latin .. and spelling.. lol ..:

    forsythia
    daphne
    hydrangia
    oak leaf hydrengia
    flowering almond
    wisteria
    honeysuckle
    weigalia
    calycanthus .. blue beards mist????
    spirea
    the one with brown flowers that look like wood.. maybe carolina sweetbush???
    the more bulletproof magnolia like star mag. and saucer mag.

    thats all i can recall.. in my 7 degree garden.. today.. lol ..

    on sand.. mulch and proper watering the first year are the keys .. for getting plants established...

    ken

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Yep, I've got all my plants mulched. I get all the FREE wood mulch I want from my city. I just have to go scoop it. And I water religiously.
    I know you have already given me quite a few suggestions, but do you guys have any opinion on either the Ninebark Summerwine or the Crapemyrtle bush for the West side in SC KS? I already have a Ninebark on the East side of my house where it gets afternoon shade, and it is doing alright. It stayed really green during the summer heat but then turned very dark purple when the temps dropped in October, and it still has it's leaves now in January, although it is finally starting to drop them now. So I am reluctant to try it on the West side as it may get scorched. However, there are a lot of Crapemyrtles around here that seem to thrive. Let me know what you think.

  • hortster
    11 years ago

    ken - forsythia, flowering almond, wisteria and sweetshrub would meet the OP requirements. Haven't done much with daphne. Smaller hydrangeas like H. arborescens grandiflora and H. macrophylla need shade to light morning sun. H. quercifolia can take more sun. Frippin' honeysuckles are quite invasive here.

    Both the magnolias grow well here but I'd bet 6 or 7 out of 10 years a late frost gets 'em in the middle of bloom. Worth it anyway!

    The Summer Wine ninebark is another I haven't grown in my yard. I have seen it do quite nicely on the east, but like you through the last two summers I have seen scorch on "west side" purple foliage from intense afternoon heat. I've got two crapemyrtles (both 'Zuni') pretty much with full exposure to everything and every few years it gets cold enough to freeze them to the ground. For me a zero or below freeze is actually a handy size control. Anyway, some crapemyrtles have been bred to handle cold better (Zuni is one) but they can get zapped.

    hortster

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thank you, hortster. I will probably steer away from the Ninebark, but I'm glad to know that crapemrytle will do fine. I have just one last question on this post. You mentioned that Juddi Vibernum would do well on the West. Do you know anything about Conoy Vibernum, Summer Snowflake Vibernum, or Mohawk Vibernum? Would they do well on the West too?

  • hortster
    11 years ago

    Don't know about Conoy, but Summer Snowflake is one of the doublefile varieties and is not for the west. I think they don't like sandy soil - I may get corrected on that one. Mohawk is a burkwood viburnum variety - might live on the west but likely would do better with a bit of protection.

    A Mohican viburnum (V. lantana) is thriving on the west side of my house. I gave up watering that side of the yard the last two scorching summers and it did fine. I may have hand watered it once every two or three weeks.

    hortster

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    Butterfly bush does fine here. It just dies to the ground during the more harsh winters, call it -10 or lower than bounces back.

    Ninebark does very well in full sun here, however it MUST have ample moisture or it will develop severe powdery mildew in humid coniditions. I have Coppertina, which is a superior selection in regards to ornamental value due its coppery new growth season long. Mine is west exposed in a somewhat restricted area and does well, but I do keep it well watered. Pic is over a year old as it was all I had. Start small, like 1 gallon on this plant they grow very fast.

    {{gwi:240364}}

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    Yeah Mohican is tough as nails and very drought tolerant.

    Viburnum plicatum (Summer Snowflake is a cultivar) doesn't do well with full blast sun. Even here with south exposure it get crabby by late summer. However it is fine with sandy soils long as you have ample mmoisture. Mine is shaded from the west and east so it does ok. I have a tree form and thing is growing like crazy...but I water it.

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    My Ninebark 'Summerwine' is in a southeastern corner of my house where it receives afternoon shade but still gets that southern heat. It turned pretty green during the summer and probably would have scorched if it had not had the afternoon shade. However, once the temperature cooled in October it turned dark purple and stayed purple until mid December when everythig else had gone dormant. Here it is January 3, and it still has it's purple leaves although many of them have turned bright red and dropped. The pic below was taken about two weeks ago.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ninebark 'Summerwine'

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Okay, a lied. I have another question. I like the Mohican and Juddi Viburnums, but they get pretty big. Does anyone (hortster) know of a viburnum that would do well on the West side that doesn't grow taller or wider than five feet?

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    Is that a question only for Horster?

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    If its not, Viburnum dentatum 'Rastzam' fits the bill. Very drought tolerate and extremely adaptable.

  • greenhavenrdgarden
    11 years ago

    I have the viburnum 'Newzam'. It's a dwarf form of the v. doublefile 'popcorn'. It would meet your size requirement. Also I have V. 'Shoshoni' which is a smaller v. doublefile that is similar to 'Shasta' but shorter. That one might get wider than 5ft though. Both are fine in full sun.

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Hortster, do you have any opinion on the Raspberry Tart Viburnum that whaas is speaking of? Sooner Plant Farm in Oklahoma says it is drought tolerant, durable, and hardy under harsh conditions.

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    I kept trying to figure out why you keep going direct to Horster on this and just relaized he/she lives in your area, I guess that makes sense. I grow this plant if you want more info.

    Our climates aren't exceptionally different other than hardiness of 10 degrees and duration of sunlight exposure of some species.

    No problem.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    11 years ago

    dsteg would argue with you whaas ... that KC summer night heat and humidity are much different.. and that is why you and I can do some conifers.. he cant ....

    which is also part of why they are quizzing the hort.. who seems to have lost interest ... or has a real life.. outside GW ...

    regardless... i consider viburnum to be a run it over with the truck plant.. and dont know what difference latitude would make ...

    i have the variegated one.. which is brilliant bright yellow and green splashed in full sun.. and the same plant in shade.. is grey and green splashed ... the ONLY downside on this plant.. is the scent of the flowers is called 'dirty diaper' ... lol ...

    i also have mohawk in full sun ... and its fragrance is sublime ... though i dont know its shade vigor ... [i also wonder if there is this one.. and another named mohican.. or are we using two different names for the same fragrant plant???]

    p-man.. frankly.. no shrub EVER STOPS GROWING ... e.g. i have seen lilac as big as a hundred year old house ... its all about ANNUAL GROWTH RATE ... and how fast it gets bigger than you want.... and rejuvenation pruning ... if you think you can plant and forget any shrub forever .. you must have a branch of de nile running thru your KC ....

    you are right to be looking for dwarf version of the monsters.. but dont get too hung up between one that claims to only grow 5 feet rather than 8.. or something like that ... choose the best plant.. not a size 'claim' to fit a spot ...

    ken

    ps: my first house was next to a funeral home.. and there were 30 year old viburnum blocking the view.. they were just below the lower power lines [probably the phone and cable].. 20 feet tall?? ... and 40 to 50 feet wide.. and that is what 30 years will get you with a shrub.. some of the branches were 4 to 6 inch diameter ... since they were not on my property.. they were beautiful... lol ..

    Here is a link that might be useful: probably bigger than you might want.. but really cool ...

  • hortster
    11 years ago

    Yeah, ken, stuff has to be tough to tolerate every extreme in weather you can imagine. Extreme heat, overly wet years, occasional zone 5 cold, extreme drought and generally high pH. And, I never loose interest. I always enjoy gardenweb but I do tend to be a busybody and can't sit at the 'puter all day, gotta move. Yeah, one of those.

    No real opinion on Raspberry Tart other than V. dentatum is a tough cookie in general. Never had one but it sure looks pretty. Give it a shot!

    hortster

  • whaas_5a
    11 years ago

    Yep got it, humidity levels are similar but temps. consistently run 10 degrees higher (night, day, summer, winter, etc). I was more or less speaking of V. dentatum not telling the difference between Kansas and Wisconsin.

    I was being a bit pushy as it doesn't matter what suggestions are made by who. I'm of the opinion that the questionee will then look into the plants ability to perform in their region, otherwise you are limiting your possiblitlies. Hort is the man but he doesn't know of or have experience with all plants that could or will work in KS at the "initial" suggestion. Hopefully I didn't mispeak for you Hortster?

    Sorry, even I annoy myself on the off season!

    I like that Viburnum that Ken mentioned as well. Its a big boy but very tough. V. lantana is listed as invasive in many areas but this cutlivar is not (or not at all, haven't been able to confirm) as invasive as the species.

    {{gwi:240366}}

  • hortster
    11 years ago

    whaas, V. dentatum probably CAN tell the difference but it just doesn't CARE. ;) I just listed the materials that with reasonable certainty will vie against KS weather. There are sure to be others just as tenacious, so suggest away.

    A lot of plants listed as invasive are specific to certain regions. For example, Vinca minor and Hedra helix are a PITA in many areas of the country, but the heat and drought limit their spread here. A lot of plant varieties do OK in an average year but fail or get set back when one or more of the extremes happen here every few years.

    hortster

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks everyone. You have all been very helpful. Whaas, I don't care who answers my questions, but hort just has experience with the climate around here. You have been very helpful too, and I appreciate your answers and photos.

  • Tim
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I was just told by Classic Verbanums that V. dentatum 'Little Joe' would also do well. I will probably experiment with a few different ones. I have never tried to grow viburnums before, so this is really exciting.