Crape myrtles can be either (or both). I've seen huge single-trunked specimens and cultivars that form nice little bun shaped plants not over a few feet tall. Of course, most crape myrtles are somewhere in between. Don't think of trees and shrubs as being mutually exclusive; they are probably best thought of as vague concepts of form. Trees can be multi-trunked and come in all sizes. Shrubs also come in all sizes and, in some cases, can leave the ground with a single trunk.

What about your crape needs pruning? I get nervous when I hear someone saying that they need to prune their crape myrtle. While it's true that proper pruning techniques can result in a better specimen, it's also true that most crape myrtle pruning is a complete mess made by those that don't understand the plant (I am not assuming you are one of them, just asking).

Yes the pods are seed pods. Crape myrtles are pretty easy to propagate from seeds and there's plenty of guides online, BUT they are more commonly propagated from cuttings that can be used to produce a plant with known qualities (the same as the parent plant).

in my world.. warped as it is .. and subject to many arguing posts around here ...

its a FLOWERING SHRUB...

which can be trained/pruned into a tree form if you so wish ... its form does not change what it actually is .. again.. in my world ...

as you suspect.. it is either one or the other.. because WORDS MEAN THINGS... and one thing can not be two different things ... when we are trying to discuss an issue with some precision ..

if you just want to sit around.. and drink beer and dream up ???'s and discuss the COMMON names of things.. well.. you really dont get very far in delineating specific answer .. [but boy can you have a fun time ... subject to tomorrows hangover.. should the discussion get too intense ...]

i usually argue with brandon and rhiz about this.. but this comment just makes no sense:

===>>>> Crape myrtles can be either (or both).

NO!!!! it can NOT be both or either.. WORDS MEAN THINGS...

i guess i live in literal-ville .... not some mamby pambsy place where definitions are wishy washy and trees can be shrubs..

i suppose they could all fit under perennial also .. does that help the conversation... probably only with another case of beer ... so perhaps i should change brandons comment to:

Crape myrtles can be either (or both) or perennials ...

i just dont get why this bothers me so.. its inexplicable.. but i cant let it go by ...

maybe its just a law school thing ...

you burgle a house.. because there is no perception of an intent to harm ..

you rob a person.. with intent to harm ... [otherwise its not robbery] ... they fear you ...

you can NOT rob a house .... because a house can never be afraid of your intent to harm ... its an inanimate object.. perhaps a shrub.. or a tree or a perennial ....

and the resultant increased penalty .. is due to the threat of harm ... not the value of what was taken from either ...

so.. it cant be either rob or burgle or both .... WORDS MEAN THINGS ... and if you can not define what you are discussing.. then the conversation is worth nothing.. but the taste of the beer ....

perhaps a better post would have asked.. what kind of beer would be offered if we all met up to discuss this subject ad nauseum ... or what alternative sources of alcohol ...

ken

ps: i hope i recall those law school definitions properly .. lol ...

Yep, trees and shrubs are also indeed perennials. You learn that in horticulture 101 (I can see why Ken may have missed that in law school - LOL). It's just that we don't usually refer to them that way unless there's reason to do so.

I frequently see plants described as "a small tree or large shrub" or "somewhere between a tree and a shrub". The problem is that there's really no such thing as a "pure tree" or a "pure shrub" in nature. The terms are just human invention to APPROXIMATE ideas! Nature is more often a continuum than not, and doesn't care one lick about what we want to call it. Annuals can sometimes live for many years, male plants can sometimes produce female flowers or branches, tender plants can sometimes survive where they were never supposed to....life is not always black and white!

Oh yeah...If I was forced at gunpoint to describe all of crape myrtle-dom as either shrub or tree, I'd probably choose shrub. But, when looking at some specimens, that description would seem pretty silly.

What brandon7 has left out of the definition - and that ken_adrian has chosen to ignore vis-a-vis behavior of plants versus behavior of people - is that what one might describe a crape myrtle as has a whole lot to do with where one is cultivating the plant (and the selected clone thereof), versus human criminal behavior which is treated uniformly under the law whether one is sacking Adrian MI or Knoxville TN.

If one is in the deep South of the US, Lagerstroemia sp. is likely to be a tree - whether multistemmed or single stemmed - except for some of the dwarf clones. As one moves northward (to regions like KY) Crape Myrtle might better be termed a large shrub, for the slower growth rate, smaller mature size, and likelihood to be frozen back periodically. Northward still, Crape Myrtle could be termed a dieback shrub or perennial since it (almost) never retains its woody canopy and regrows from the root system each year.

I would venture the same question unto those familiar with growing Pelargonium sp. What is that plant considered in MI? TN? Or further toward frost-free zones, or the equator?

I'm sure ken has experience with similar woody plants up there in the balmy climes of MI. Plants like some of the Hydrangea sp., Caryopteris sp., and Buddleia sp. come to mind as likely suspects.

A cautionary note about pruning Lagerstroemia (crape myrtles): when a branch is cut, the THREE nodes below the cut release buds. So you get a very congested area that if you do not keep on top of will really get nasty-looking. The more severe your pruning, the more lateral buds will become active. So you want to do minimal pruning and do a little every year, rather than a hard pruning all at once. If you don't want a shrub/tree (that's just semantics) of the size of a crape myrtle in that spot, transplant it and replace it with something of the mature size that you are looking for, or one that is more amenable to being pruned. Crape myrtles transplant easily, if you have the muscle power for it. Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Form and Foliage

OP SAYS:

Crepe Myrtle is often mentioned as a tree and/or a shrub...can it be both? If so, what DEEFINES it as such?

===>>>

to put my positions simply .. one thing can not be DEFINED two ways ...

it is defined as one or the other ...

and the definition is not subject to the whims of how the plant is pruned into whatever shape ...

VValley.. i like the sacking of adrian.. lol .. been reading a lot of roman novels.. now those peeps knew how to sack .. lol ...

a shrub can grow into a form that looks like a tree ... but i submit.. that no matter what it looks like.. it is still a shrub .. by the pesky definition ...

but a tree can not grow into a shrub form.. unless someone repeatedly mow it down with a gangmower ... if i do that repeated over some oak seedlings.. i will still oak trees in shrub form.. but by definition.. they will still be oak trees [albeit, pretty ugly ones]

lets just agree we have beaten this with a dead fish.. and that my logic wins .. lol ... [yeah.. that will work]

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Whether it's a "tree" or a "shrub" depends on the particular variety and the local climate. What criterion does one use to distinguish a tree from a shrub? Let's simplify the semantics. For me, a tree is a tree, is a tree when I (an adult male), can climb it. I have grown mini Crapes and have seen local specimens that are big enough to climb. In zone 5, they probably will always be "shrubs" regardless of the variety.

Ken,

If crape myrtles cannot be defined as trees, then they absolutely cannot be defined as shrubs either. Take your pick, but either they can be either depending on circumstances or they can be neither. Those are the choices. To chose another possibility, I think you'll have to prove the possibility exists, and I don't think you can.

OK, forget that last poorly worded post. Here's a simplified explanation. I added conifers, for Ken's benefit, too.
{{gwi:240448}}