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Sambucus Black Lace.... tree form?

houzi
12 years ago

Hello all.I live in UK and wondered if anyone has grown Sambucus 'Eva'(Black Lace)into tree form,ie single stem.

I notice that in some parts,people have to watch when they prune so as to leave time for setting flower buds.I do not have this problem as it always flowers on new growth,growth which was entirely non-existent before.Therefore I think we can treat this plant in much the same way as we treat Buddleia,cut it right down each year but still get flowers.

I have heard it's possible and would like to grow this as a single stem plant.

Do you think it is possible,considering it's very vigorous growth?and it is fast growing here.

Would I quickly end up with a sky-scraper if I trained it up? or would cutting it back each year to the same stem,increasing the height on this stem gradually be the way to go?

Also to keep flowers on the 'branches' I choose to leave,would this mean I'd end up with an ultra wide plant as the flowers seem to appear on new growth?

I'm guessing that maybe a tree form is only possible if I'm willing to have a giant of a plant,but hoping some-one out there has had a go at this...thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Comments (12)

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    12 years ago

    Yes, it can be trained into a standard or tree form. It is sometime even sold that way already :-) Annually trimming or shearing back the top growth after flowering will keep it at a mangeable size while still promoting flowering (it actually acts as a die-back perennial in colder climates). In fact, many sources recommend hard pruning sambucus every few years just to keep the plant vigorous, so it's hard to consider what damage, if any, a light annual pruning would cause.

    Here is a link that might be useful: scroll down to 'Garden Uses & Care ' to read about training

  • houzi
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Oh hello Gardengal,if I'd known you were on this forum also,I'd have come straight to you if you didn't mind:)
    Thanks for the info and link,this is good news.
    If you get time to have a look(absolutely no hurry)I've put link to a pic.just to give you an idea....the plant's currently about 4'x4'.The stem in the middle is pretty upright but there's also a very nice straight stem,just as tall (out of sight) which seems to be all this years growth....which would be better to use in your opinion?
    Bearing in mind it was only a 16'' single stick about a thick as a Biro at the beginning of last year,do you think I could remove all the other stems in one go after flowering,(it's very vigorous)or would it be too much stress?
    Sorry to fire all these questions at you but I've only ever chopped back plants to increase branching/foliage at the beginning of year.
    Thanks so much for your time GG

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:255888}}

  • houzi
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Oh thanks GG,no-one goes into such detail elsewhere on the web.Ha ha,well spotted re:Rose Campion,my dad hates them as they're too bright to go with anything and spring up everywhere.
    You're right about extra canes sprouting from base,I have many and as I said one is thick and 4' tall already this season.
    I'm looking forward to doing this little project over the years,thanks again so much for your detailed advice and of course your time GG.

  • flora_uk
    12 years ago

    Nice healthy looking shrubs, houzi. I noticed a green alkanet just behind the Lychnis coronaria. I'd get that out asap as they seed around and produce a nasty itchy rash, on me at least. The minute bristles get stuck in your skin. So wear gloves to weed it out.

  • houzi
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Oh thanks for your concern Flora,yes those damn things are everywhere.I remember my mum deliberately planting them when I was young at her home,they were quite rarely seen here then.
    They're just one of many plants that seem to spring up all over the place here,Centranthus is another though the butterflies love them.They got quite out of hand in my front garden so I put weed killer on them....biggest mistake ever!...it was so embarrasing as they gave off a smell like raw sewage..people walking past must have thought....well I don't know??
    Another plant which has recently appeared from nowhere is Euphorbia lathyris,took me ages to find out what it was.It's intriguing how it arranges it's leaves so uniformly symetrical in that cruciform pattern.Wonder what a whole box of them would look like if neatly arranged and lined up ha ha.

  • houzi
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Regarding the Sambucus photo,you may have noticed the two 10ft Ilex bushes behind.Now I've had these since 1ft babies and they have never failed to produce both flowers and berries in copious amounts.However I was always led to believe you needed a male plant nearby to do this.Have I been extremely lucky as I have no idea where there is another one?

  • flora_uk
    12 years ago

    There might be other Ilex aquifoliums around somewhere that you haven't noticed. I've read it can be up to 200 metres but I don't know if that's accurate. So they could be several gardens away.

  • houzi
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Yes I guess that's the only explanation,I'm just surprised (and pleased )that they've always produced so well.
    Often see sparrows inside these shrubs,busily pecking away at insects I presumed.Watched them the other day,they were actually surgically removing leaves and flying off with them.I always thought birds just picked up old dead leaves and twigs for nests....learn something every day:)

  • houzi
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi GG,kept meaning to update you about this but never got 'round to it sorry.
    Anyway,have to say this is an amazing plant,no-wonder it was 12 years in the making though I think it could be the victim of it's success.
    It's just so easy to propagate(though obviously a patented plant)I've tried cuttings..soft wood,hard wood & a bit of both and with great success without any special requirements(moisture/heat etc.)
    As you rightly said the plant did put out strong shoots from the base.I noticed one of these at the back was perfectly upright and vigorous so kept it and removed the others.About 4months later it was 8ft high! It was amazing to think that all you could see was the results of just a few months growth.In autumn I then dug it up and turned it around to bring the new stem to the front.It sulked for a while but never looked under threat.It's flowering now as you can see and I fully expect it to start pushing growth strongly afterwards(it usually does)then I can start deciding about the branching(it's still a bit narrow and upright presently)However now it's quite big it's already like a big dark shadow in the garden,and I know they can become very big,so I'll see if I wish to keep it large or not.
    Oh yes,I took two of the other strong shoots(about 2'5ftx3/8") and stuck them in 9cm pots on my windowsill...believe it or not they rooted easily!...the photo shows them shortly after taking next to a few normal sized cuttings.I had to put them immediately into larger pots if only to stop them falling over ha.
    As always,thanks for your advice GG,I really don't know how you find the time to answer all the queries on the forums ...truly a most unselfish act :)
    {{gwi:255890}}

    {{gwi:255893}}

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    Saw a couple of these on standards at a garden center today. As is often the case with such productions coming out of nurseries there is a long pole with a small amount of elder on top, them needing to grow more before the stem and branches become proportionate. In any situation where overhead clearance is the goal the trunk needs to go way up there to make this possible.

  • houzi
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi (Ron isn't it?)well I've never seen them for sale as a standard here,infact not really seen them at anything much over 4ft,yet they still often want ã30 for such an example.Knowing how fast and easy to grow they are I can't help thinking someone's making easy money here.I'd like to think it's the creators but I doubt they see the profits the garden centres&nurseries are making.
    I'm starting to think it's one of those plants that when you first see it,it's 'OOH that's nice'...and looking straight at it or down on it with the flowers it is.However once it's above head height,the leaves don't look so appealing and already I can't really see the flowers,they're too high.