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gabrielle12_gw

planting gardenias

gabrielle12
12 years ago

Hello all - I am in need of advice and hope someone might be around even though it's a big holiday weekend! I am in zone 7b about 40 miles southeast of Richmond VA. I am putting in Chuck Hayes gardenias on the north side of the house. They will get full sun until about noon, then shade till about 5 p.m. when they get a little more sun. My soil is sand and/or clay and I added a topsoil/NutriGreen mixture. pH testing showed I needed to raise the acidity and I bought Hi-Yield Aluminum Sulfate based on the garden center's recommendation. I am using Fertilome Root Stimulator 4-10-3 at planting. Finally, I will be applying a 12-4-8 fertilizer made for the garden center "for plants of eastern Virginia" (a friend had great results with this for her gardenias).

My questions are: when do I apply the 12-4-8 fertilizer? For insect and disease control I have had good results with other plants using Bayer Advanced All-In-One Rose & Flower Care. When should this be applied?

I know this is long but wanted to try and provide as much info as possible (and I still may have left something out that you need to know). Thanks in advance!

Comments (11)

  • User
    12 years ago

    Gabrellie,
    I am responding to your post because I have Chuck Hayes gardenia, so I thought I might give you some pointers.
    It is blooming now too, and usually blooms a second time at the end of August.
    Think of gardenias a little bit like Rhododendrums.
    Your sun is fine.
    I don't know what type of soil you have, if you state that your soil needs acidity, you probably have clay.
    Gardenias need drainage.
    Drainage and pine mulch to hold moisture.
    DOn't fertilize your newly planted shrub for at least 2 months after you plant it.
    DOn't fertilize it ever when it is blooming.
    It will get yellow leaves right after you plant, just ignore them.
    It will also get yellow leaves in the fall, ignore them too.
    Don't let it dry out, before you water it, stick a moisture meter down by the roots to make sure it needs to be watered.(or your finger).
    DOn't use that Bayer and Rose flower care on it, and when you plant it, dig a nice big hole and add composted manure real good to the soil.(not too much). Make sure the composted manure is mixed in with the soil real good.
    If you must fertilize it, try Osmocote fertilizer, or Miracle grow for acid loving plants.
    Don't freak out about bugs til it gets overwhelmed with them.
    Water by hand in the morning only.
    Don't baby it to death, they are very resiliant shrubs.
    Enjoy it, and plant it as close to a walkway or window as possible!
    Good luck, you have good taste in shrubs!

  • gabrielle12
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Hi butterfly - Thanks so much for such a quick answer! Your info is much more comprehensive than I could find anywhere. I noted my soil is sand and/or clay, and I used a topsoil/Nutrigreen blend from a mulch and materials place - will that work instead of cow manure? Or should I add the cow manure to that, too? You say not to fertilize when blooming - if buds are present is that okay, or should I fertilize in spring before buds are present?

    Also, I discovered another gardenia I had in the same area has spider mites. I spent a couple of hours researching treatment yesterday, and though I don't want to may end up getting Avid since I discovered them on my Steeds holly, Wintergreen boxwood, and butterfly bush. What do you use for a miticide? Thanks again!

  • brandon7 TN_zone7
    12 years ago

    Use your native soil only for backfill. If you insist on amending the soil (for you, not your shrub), do so sparingly. 5% to 10% amendment probably wouldn't do much harm. Adding more than that could negatively impact drainage and root growth. Read the info in the link below. It should answer most of your questions.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Planting a Tree or Shrub

  • gabrielle12
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Brandon - Thanks for your input, and I did read the link. I know there has recently been discussion on whether to amend or not. However, my soil is only sand, clay, or sand/clay (depending on the area of the yard). Surely most trees, shrubs, and flowers won't grow in that, will they? I'm confused as to why amending could negatively impact root growth; it seems it would be just the opposite. Please provide some more insight for me as I have a fortune in plants going into the ground. Thanks.

  • gabrielle12
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Brandon - I went to the soil forum and found a question posted by someone who moved to VA and was trying to deal with the clay soil. There were 45 follow-ups from 04/07 thru 05/11. I am now frustrated and trying to figure out what to do. For the past 3 years (new house) we have been creating new beds for shrubs and flowers, and planting trees. Do I need to abandon the method I have always used in 29 years of home ownership of doing this? Suppose I were having it professionally landscaped (oh if only), what do they do that allows for immediate planting (not taking a year or more to utilize the methods described on that thread)? Between this and the @*#! spider mites I'm ready to move to a condo. Thanks for any input.

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    12 years ago

    The talk about adding amendments is by no means recent. We've known for many years (20 or 30 ?) that adding amendments of any kind when planting can cause problems for the plants, in the short run AND long run. There are some exceptions to this, but they are very rare.

    'Improved' planting holes create an artificial soil environment that may: 1) impede water drainage from the hole and create a bath tub effect 2) inhibit natural capillarity 3) encourage the root system to circle itself within that planting hole, rather than venture out into the native soil. Other problems can raise their hackles, too.

    I've always directed any plantings done under my authority to be amendment free and have worked in areas of pure sand to hard red clay. My own yard is the latter...and all of our new plantings thrive in the clay beyond my wildest expectations.

    If the whole planting area consists of blue or gray clay, sticky beyond any hope, it would be advised that an entire planting bed be improved with lots of organic matter amendments...not just hole by hole.

    I've grown gardenias in a wide variety of soils, by the way. They do just fine in sandy or clayey soils, as long as the clay drains well.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Here's a good fact sheet from Va. Tech

  • gabrielle12
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks rhizo - I have added the fact sheet to my favorites. Two other questions - should I try to "undo" my recently planted shrubs and return them to more native soil? Secondly, I have many times read two things which contradict each other in terms of removing the shrub from the container. First is to not disturb the root ball (other than loosening girdling roots) and the other is to remove the majority of material it is grown in as it is too porous and (again) not native. Any advice in that regard? Again, thanks in advance.

  • jay_7bsc
    12 years ago

    Dear gabrielle12,
    I agree with brandon7 and rhizo1. We had a fine 'Chuck Hayes' gardenia that was killed outright by the Easter Freeze two or three years ago. It grew next to an 'August Beauty' gardenia that came through the freeze with little or no damage. Both plants grew in part-sun, part-shade in unamended clay-based fertile loam. I have since replaced the dead 'Chuck Hayes' gardenia with two small 'Chuck Hayes' gardenias--one in the foundation shrubbery for added winter protection, the other farther away from the house in part-shade, part-sun. One plant came from Niche Gardens in Chapel Hill; the other from either Camellia Forest in Chapel Hill or Woodlanders in Aiken. When planted, both gardenias were less than a foot high. I did nothing to amend the soil. Nor have I fertilized them, knowing that gardenias can be a little cranky and temperamental if one pours too much TLC on them. In my experience, gardenias, like that famous movie actress, want to be left alone. I planted them, with their roots riding high, and did just that: I left them alone--ignored them completely. And guess what? They've thrived--all on their own, with no attention from me except pulling a few weeds from around them. They're still small plants, but they have beautiful, dark green, waxy foliage; and the older one has set flower buds. Try this approach. If it works in SC, it will probably work in VA.

  • brandon7 TN_zone7
    12 years ago

    Gabrielle, sorry I didn't check back earlier, but I don't get the the Shrubs Forum all that often and haven't even had a lot of GardenWeb time lately. Looks like Rhizo and Jay answered some of your questions already. I will try to address the other questions you posed.

    As to whether you should try to undo/redo your recent plantings, I think that would depend on a number of things. If you amended the soil only slightly, I'd think your gardenias would be better off left as-is. If you amended heavily, you'll have to weigh what you can observe about impact on drainage, your willingness to do the work, the availability of unamended soil for the replanting, etc. It's hard to know or judge without being there or being more familiar with the situation.

    Advice to not disturb the root ball of trees and shrubs is largely based on antiquated thinking/practices. There are plants that are more likely to suffer with significant root disturbance, but they are the exception. Generally, I'd be much more concerned about addressing potential root system defects than keeping the rootball intact. For larger trees and shrubs, I don't usually bare-root them when planting, but certainly see the value of doing so when time, labor, and knowledge allows. Don't worry about disturbing the rootball unless you are working with a plant you know to be particularly sensitive to root disturbance.

  • gabrielle12
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Brandon - Thanks for the follow-up info. I decided to leave the gardenias as-is, and they seem to be doing well so far.

  • gabrielle12
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Jay - I am going to do as you and butterfly recommended, leave them alone and not baby them too much, which I tend to do. Thanks for your input.