Thanks! That is very useful and helpful information. Flowers are important to me so it sounds as if Wine and Roses is the way to go.

HI,

Are there any new opinions on the 'Wine and Roses' vs 'Midnight Wine?'

Thanks!

I have 'Wine and Roses' and it's even reblooming right now. I think a main difference between the two (other than 'Midnight Wine' having slightly darker leaves than 'Wine and Roses' in sun), is the height and what you might prefer for ultimate size. 'Midnight Wine' has always been billed as a shrub (growing like a sub-shrub) for planting among perennials.

My two 'Midnight Wine' have been very slow to establish and flower sparsely even in full sun. On the other hand, 'Wine and Roses' is very vigorous and free flowering even in part shade, at least in my experience.

Sue

I also concur that 'Midnight Wine' flowers poorly, even in full sun. (which is great for me, cause I changed my color scheme since I got it and it clashes with coral!!!) Its habit is definitely groundcover. Its foliage color gets better (more purple) as the season progresses, but is somewhat brown early on. A little late to leaf out.

W&R flowers well early on and will lightly rebloom throughout the season. This year I am noticing that the foliage (in almost full sun), looks very brown to me. I may not have noticed it before or it may be a weather/culture thing. Mine is 3 years old and about 3' H. It spent the first season as a patio pot and went in then ground 9/04.

It is amazing how the experience of real gardeners can differ from what the catalogs have to say!

I have about 20 or so Wine and Roses (W&R). I still have the same 3 Midnight Wine (MW).

The W&R are excellent plants with great blooms. They are reblooming now--at least 3 of the ones I passed by this morning.

My 3 MW did not bloom at all. They leaf-out fairly late in the Spring and they test the patience of my shovel each year. Now, the foliage is growing and they are a dense little plant. Mine could be used as a background for some small bright plants but nothing more. I would not buy any more.

Which one you plant depends on how you are going to use it. They really aren't interchangable.
As mentioned, Midnight Wine grows low like a groundcover and is a very useful design plant in my opinion even if it never flowered (but it does). The flowers may be smaller, but they are in scale with the plant. Mine is maybe 6" tall, 12" wide always dense and has a darker leaf than my Wine and Roses. It looks great among other edging plants and groundcovers / subshrubs such as chocolate chip ajuga or Little Elf spirea, sedums, creeping Jenny, very dwarf conifers, thymes, etc. It also looks good at the foot of dark green plants like Green Spire euonymus.
Anyway, it all depends on what you are planting your weigela among.

Loretta, thanks for the info. Does your Midnight Wine produce a lot of flowers or relatively few, as others have been reporting?

Mine MW flowers abundantly in almost full sun and IMO looks very attractive if accompanied by yellow/lime colored plants
{{gwi:240903}}

When mulch is dry burgundy foliage color stands out much better.

ego45,

Very nice composition!. What are the yellow\lime colored plants?

thanks,
xman

That's beautiful, George. Your photos are inspirational!

Normally mine flowers evenly over the whole plant. I'll see if I took a picture but ego45's picture shows the habit. I might have a clearer one. This year, only half the plant flowered while the other half recovered from being constantly stepped on by my neighbor's construction workers.
Anyway, you have two pictures now that show how differently these plants are shaped. Midnight Wine is a very neat and clean weigela, a low grower, could line up with the likes of one of the new dwarf crape myrtles. Wine and Roses goes into a little taller border, has more of a Cottage Garden look. Still a little tamer than many of the weigelas out there and still could be easily eaten up by a healthy perennial - I've moved mine three times.

It will be interesting to see how each does after five or ten years. With new plant introductions, the nurseries are basically guessing. Each of these is a very attractive plant at this stage of the game, for sure.

I've had two Weigelas on the east side of my house for several years. Though they bloom, they're getting crowded out by other shrubs and plants (another story). I'm considering moving them to the west side of the house where they'll have more room--but also winter winds (I live in VT and they've been sheltered on the east side of house) and only afternoon sun. Any suggestions? Thanks--

Yellow/lime shrub is Golden barberry (Berberis thunbergii 'Aurea') and the small ones are heucherellas 'Sunspot', which holding sun surprisingly well, so far. Originally was thinking to use lisimachia nummularia 'Goldii' which would be a sure choice, but decided to give a try to more contained plant. Small(ish) pure yellow hosta probably should work as well, but leaves of hosta definitely should be small.
Here is another shot, when not in bloom and mulch is dry:
{{gwi:260992}}

My Wine&Roses in bloom looks nice:

{{gwi:260993}}

Not in bloom, lightly trimmed, looks sickly:

{{gwi:260994}}

Maybe some of those yellow/lime plants would help it out from the pretty bed above.

I am wondering if anyone knows the name of the small tree in ego45's picture. Since there isn't much action on the shrub forum yet, I am reading all the old posts.

Something with opposite leaves, maybe Hydrangea paniculata (is this one opposite? I don't remember) or a dogwood. Looks like a bush grafted onto a standard to make a mini-tree.

I don't know what you mean by opposite leaves. Can you explain?

the leaves emerge from nodes on each side of the stem that are directly opposite of each other.

This link has a good explanation of leaf arrangement.

Here is a link that might be useful: Leaf arrangement

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't have a clue!!

I agree with the other comments about Wine & Roses vs Midnight Wine. 'Wine & Roses' has stunning glossy dark leaves and is breathtaking in bloom. Its foliage is attractive throughout the season. I had 3 'Midnight Wine' shrubs and they were disappointing. The foliage was a drab, dull brown and they bloomed sparsely. Definitely not an asset to the mixed border! I finally got rid of then and replaced them with 'Concord' barberry.

You cannot say one is better than the other because each is unique.

Midnight Wine is a dwarf mounded plant under 18" tall. Its main attribute is it's size, habit and foliage color. It is not a strong blooming plant because the stem length is so short. It progressively gets darker as the season progresses. It is also best used in Zones 5 or warmer. This is a good plant for use in perennial gardens, or mass plantings or decorative containers.

Wine & Roses is a taller plant, about 5' tall, with darker, glossier leaves and an abundance of flowers. It is hardy to zone 4. This plant looks its best when it is sheared right after flowering, giving a flush of fresh dark foliage and more flowers. It's great for cutting and using in flower bouquets.

Fine Wine, the newest plant in the Wine Series is intermediate in size, being about 3' tall. It is more the shape and size of Java Red but with darker leaves and brighter flowers. This plant is good for mass planting. It is the hardiest of the three and well adapted to a cold zone 4. Weigela is often prone to tip die back and I have seen very little on this plant. This is a strong bloomer.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Plant Hunter Blog

I agree, comparing W&R and MW is like comparing watermelons and limes, same color but.......

I have a dozen MW along the front of a border alternating with sedum 'White Diamond' in the front and spiraea 'Magic Carpet' and 'Limemound' behind using that same type of contrast as ego45. I chose MW for the foliage color and the mounding effect alone.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:260989}}

What do the "wine and roses" look like in fall and winter?

Flowers are wonderfull for both plants but my personal choice is wine and roses.

But I must admit its been a learning experience for me . I bought 3 weigela last year 2 red prince and 1 wine and roses. The red prince has and is still flowering their heads off but I stray. The WR flowered some last year but did not releaf nor did it grow and I gave up on it as being dead. Meanwhile this season I found two more larger wine and roses 3gal size. They were not flowering when I bought them but I was sure they would they had not flowered up thru early july. So I go over to a nearby plant farm and talk to head man in the shrubs he said they would not flower this year if they had not by now. So I went for broke I started watering these guys heavy compared to what I had been watering and can you believe it they started lightly flowering even in this heat and drought of this year.

So the answer I had been severely under watering these guys in fear of over watering and causing root rot. I had read about this over and over. I should not have been scared as I made sure these guys had great well draining soil. So I had also killed the first plant from last year for the same reason. It is said the first two years they need plenty of water till established and then after that they should be ok. So at least now I have a feel for how much water they need at least in this drought.