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wendyb_gw4

large leaf shrubs to replace H Endless Summers?

WendyB 5A/MA
13 years ago

Any ideas for large leaf shrubs that stay about 3' tall?

For shade, part-shade or sun. all soil types.

I have decided it is time to get rid of my several Hydrangeas Endless Summers. I have had them for several years in different aspects and have tried *everything* to get them to bloom. Not only don't they bloom (1 or 2 low blooms a year if that), they wilt at the slightest amount of heat or sun, no matter if watered or not. And they are ugly in winter as well.

So, without getting into a discussion about helping/saving them, (been there done that), their only current virtue is the large leaf element that shows nicely with all the finer textured plants around them.

If they are gone, there's a couple of spots that will really suffer visually and need some substance, so I need to replace them. The only thing I can think of is some large hosta (in the shade/part-shade gardens), but I really am trying to avoid more perennials (trying to make the gardens more senior-friendly)

Comments (13)

  • viburnumvalley
    13 years ago

    Well, I think the obvious ones that come to mind are either of the dwarfer Hydrangea quercifolia clones like 'Pee Wee' or 'Sikes Dwarf'.

    Any of the Hydrangea arborescens clones could be candidates.

    Just a question: if you haven't punted the 'Endless Summer' plants yet, do some diagnostics when you dig them up. It sure sounds like a rootbound original plant that may have never rooted out into the garden. Just a thought.

    I've never tried H. macrophylla for the main reason you mentioned - the propensity to droop at the drop of a hat (or lack of a drop of rain).

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks VV. I've tried Pee Wee here before and it didn't make it over the winter. It is supposed to be a Z5, but really wasn't, at least not in my microclimates. Maybe I could try Sikes Dwarf. At least in one of the prime spots. Even if it doesn't bloom, the foliage would be great if its not a wilter. Maybe 'Little Honey' too.

    H. arborescens might be good. Maybe they've come out with some dwarfs now. I could probably keep it pruned somewhat.

    I had an epiphany today about my Endless Summers. I am working on a theory that they reverted to non-remontant somehow. Not sure if that's possible, but someone once said that a lot of the ES strains were not strong. I have 8 of them scattered about for several years (was first on my block to get them when they were first introduced). That theory might help explain why I get a bloom here or there on the very lowest branches near the ground. i.e. only the buds that survive the winter. The stems pretty much die nearly to the ground each winter, as expected. I've also tried the root-pruning technique and also transplanted a couple. Some are in sandy soil, average soil and some are in heavy soil. I doubt they are root bound, I'm kinda anal about breaking up or scoring rootballs b4 planting. I also tried one in a container where I can really control the soil. nadda. moving on. Just need a new direction - LOL!

  • Embothrium
    13 years ago

    Others have found 'Bailmer' to be a bummer, including me.

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    13 years ago

    How about a dwarf fothergilla? Though Annabelle is another possibility.

  • ego45
    13 years ago

    Wendy, what about Kirengeshoma? Though it's not a shrub, but certainly looks like one :-) In moist woodland location it grow to 5+', but in a somewhat dryish position it stays under 4'. And it is from Hydrangeaceae family, BTW ;-)
    If you are looking for hydrangea-leaf substitute, another shrub-like perennial comes to mind: Leucosceptrum stellipilum. I'm not sure if Leucosceptrum japonicum is the same or different. At least I can't distinguish them. Anyway, between two of them you'll find variety of green, silver, yellow and variegated hydrangea-like foliage. There is a possibility that you'll never see them bloom cause in my z6b they start blooming very late, only at the beginning of October, but even as a strictly foliage plant they are interesting on their own.
    Like Keringeshoma they require zero maintanance during the growing season and could be cut to the ground either in a winter or spring.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    George, I have two Kirengeshoma in two different locations and I find them to be very slow (hence skimpy) growers and they flop. Maybe they are not in their ideal conditions. One of them either is dormant or dead after this horrible hot, dry summer.

    I like the Leucosceptrum foliage. Will look into it. Not sure if a perennial (or 3 or 5) can provide the substance I need.

    Here's a couple of pics of one of the most difficult areas to replace. THere are 3 ES's around that Kousa Satomi. (probably too close). When I picture the area without them, it really looks like it will be a big mess.

    {{gwi:271872}}

    {{gwi:271873}}

  • ego45
    13 years ago

    All 3 Leucosceptrums that I have in 3 years become larger(wider) than yours ESs in a pictures. Though all locations where they grow are watered.
    Another good attribute of L. as a foliage plant is that it leafing out way before hydrangeas and is not of interest to deers or insects.

  • goodhors
    13 years ago

    I like my Witch Hazels, nice leaves and terrific fall color. Depending on the type, you can have fall blooming, and late winter flowers. I like the flash of color in the dreary late winter landscape. My Diane has fairly large leaves.

    I have been pretty happy with the Tardiva H. in shaded or slight shade locations. Not as droopy in heat, but might need some watering if very dry.

    Another idea would be grasses. I have been real happy with the striped ones, which I forgot the name of. Taller at 4-5ft, with yellow bands on the leaves. I like the color mix, and grass only needs shearing once a year. Seems quite hardy here in my Michigan location, exposed to all the wind and cold of winter. Movement in wind could give a little motion to the attractive bed in your picture.

    My ESummers seem to need a lot of sun and water. Droop fast. They are OK, but I expected better. Still may have a bit too much shade, though both are together and do flower on each stick but not big or heavily. This is their 3rd year there.

    I stick my reject plants beside the road in pots with labels and FREE. Someone always takes them!!

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Just got my Plant Delights catalog today and lo and behold... a very special looking Leucosceptrum. They claim this one stays in an 18" clump, but I don't believe it for a minute. Anything in the lamiaceae family must get wider.

    A little pricey including shipping, especially for the mint family, but I just ordered two of them!

    http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Plants/Leucosceptrum-stellipilum-October-Moon.html

    Thanks for the tip! I am excited to get them!

  • ego45
    13 years ago

    Wendy, in a midst of the summer heat it will lose the variegation. However, if you don't care about October flowers (which may not happens either way), you may slightly shear it sometime in early July and the new growth will show the same pattern as in a spring.
    Re: 18". Ha-ha-ha. My 'Variegatum', which suppose to be less vigorous than species, in 3 years occupies about that space at the base of the plant, but is least 4' wide at the top after midsummer shearing. Otherwise it would be in 5' width area.
    BTW, Dicentra spectabiles could be a good companion to it: when D. is in its glory, L. is not that full yet, but later on it will cover deteriorating foliage of D.
    Goog luck.
    P.S. If you'll like what you see, just ask and I'll send you 'Variegatum'.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    I'm actually okay with it if it does lose the variegation. There's a lot of variegation nearby. But I think dicentra is one too many perennials for the general area. Am trying hard to stick with shrubs! ALthough maybe a grass would be a compromise???. I have a Hakonochloe alba striata (taller and more substantial than the gold Aureola one) that could use a new home.

    If only the weather would cool down so I could get on with musical chairs!!!

  • LindaMA
    13 years ago

    Hi Wendy, I also live in MA and have an endless summer that just refuses to bloom, the shrub itself, looks nice through the summer, that is unless it's hot, then it just droops begging for water and this gets so old and tiresome. I had blooms on it the first year, then one the second year and none since. I plan on pulling it up this fall and replacing it with a Pinky Winky or if I'm lucky enough a Vanilla Strawberry Hydrangea.

    My endless summer is out in front of my house so it's important that I find the right shrub. I have 4 Rhody's and another Pinky Winky in the front, so I am sort of waiting to see how this pinky winky does out there. I love the way they look in the fall and from what I've read so far, the new Vanilla Strawberry's are supposed to be quite prolific and they're very pretty too.

    Good luck with your choice, I'll be very interested in what you choose.

    Linda

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Hi Linda,
    I like the Pinky Winky potential, but its too big for me in most of my ES spots. It is great looking and I will be looking for a spot for it. QuickFire is another nice paniculata you may want to check out.

    I am going with the large-leaf perennial mentioned above and also will be on the lookout for a dwarf fothergilla gardenii. They show up a lot in the garden centers in the fall because they have such outstanding fall color.

    Sounds like your front has some shade. If so, consider hostas too for a large leaf effect. Some of them get really huge. There are so many to choose from but Regal Splendor and Sagae are two nice ones I am familiar with that get very large and can hold their own amongst shrubs. Very elegant looking. Many more.

    Altho in order to get large as their potential, hostas do really need good soil and ample moisture.