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| Do you have experience with the Sky Pencil Holly? Some vendors describe its maximum height as 8 to 10 ft. I just saw some at a local nursery and their information label described the maximum height as between 6 and 8 ft. For my purposes, I height of 8 ft, or more, would be ideal.
Has your Sky Pencil Holly reached a height of 8 ft or more? How many inches/feet does it grow per year? Thanks for your inputs. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Wed, Aug 5, 09 at 10:01
| most labels.. indicating a height. are at ten years ... all plants have an annual growth rate.. find that.. and you will now how fast it grows ... no plants stop at some magical height ... they may slow down... but rarely stop ... buy small and enjoy it for as long as it pleases you .. and if you have to replace it in 10 years.. because it got to big.. so be it.. good luck ken |
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| Thanks ken. I've found conflicting info on the maximum height of the Sky Pencil. There is also conflicting info on the growth rate. Some vendors/web sites call it 'slow growing' while others decribe it as 'medium' or 'quick growing.' I'd greatly appreciate any info on the growth rate per year from people who have tried growing theses. Also, has anyone had a Sky Pencil Holly reach 8' or above? |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Thu, Aug 6, 09 at 9:37
| see link hey we are the first entry.. lol .. the second entry seems to indicate 1 to 2 feet per year ... another says to 6 inches.. go figure on that .. lol .. seems to me.. it will be over 8 feet pretty fast ... depending on how big the purchase .... i have no personal experience.. holly has never intrigued me .... ken |
Here is a link that might be useful: google
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| ken, thanks for all your efforts and the link. I did quite a bit of searching on the Internet and talking to local nursery people to find out about the Sky Pencil's max. height. As you've also discovered, there is plenty of conflicting info out there. I was hoping someone who owns a Sky Pencil could confirm it will reach a height of over 8 feet. I appreciate your help. I have never owned any holly before, and I'm put off by spiny leaves. What attracts me to the Sky Pencil is it's narrow straight up and down shape, dark green color, and small, non-spiny leaves. Calling all Sky Pencil Holly owners/observers! Has SP reached or exceeded 8 ft in height? How many inches/feet did it grow per year? Thanks! |
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| Slow under ordinary conditions, like other Japanese Holly. I'd expect 10' specimens to be perhaps decades old. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Thu, Aug 6, 09 at 14:41
| the issue can be summed up this way ... buy what intrigues you .. what makes your toes tingle ... love it.. enjoy it.. and when the time comes.. and it irritates you .. be done with it .. gardening is NOT a science wherein you research something to death .... and plant it for the next hundred years ... it just doesnt work that way ... i would rather you enjoy something for 10 years ... reveling in its beauty during that time... rather than avoiding it.. simply because .. in a decade or two.. you might have to be done with it ... if it will make you happy .. go for it.. ken |
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| Folks, keep those diverse inputs coming! I would appreciate more opinions from Sky Pencil owners. Burning questions: Did your Sky Pencil Holly reached a height over 8 feet tall? Approximately how much did it grow per year? I'm looking for something that will create an informal hedge higher than my fence (6'). Three or four of these Sky Pencils side by side could work...IF they reach 8' (or more!). No space for bulky shrub or tree. |
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- Posted by holleygarden 8/East Texas (My Page) on Thu, Aug 6, 09 at 20:52
| I looked today at mine to try to determine how much they have grown per year. My guess would be about 6"/year. BUT they are in the shade, so if they were in sun they may well grow 1-2' per year. I have only had mine a couple of years, so they are still less than 4' tall. According to the label from mine (I keep them all in ziplocks), their mature size is 6 to 10 ft. high, with an average size of 8' tall. I suppose the difference in heights may have a lot to do with their growing season. 6' in Colorado, 10' in Florida? I have to say that I love these guys. They have the 'columnar' look that very few plants have here, and they are not 'bending to the light' but growing straight up. |
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| Feet per year would be rocketing growth for a Japanese Holly. Wholesale growers often get stock to grow faster than usual as they are interested in getting as many crops as possible out of their land. Such plants may be less dense and more flimsy than those progressing at a more usual pace. I've seen some pretty wavy and wobbly fastigiate Japanese Holly offered here. |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Thu, Aug 6, 09 at 21:50
| I agree with bboy. Growth is considered slow - 6" is pretty generous. And since they are a relatively recent introduction (1992), those that have been planted are unlikely to have attained their full size yet, so you may not find many gardeners with 8'+ specimens around. I've attached a link to the National Arboretum webpage for 'Sky Pencil'. They are responsible for introducing this selection into commerce and at least one photo shows what looks to be pretty tall examples but not sure if they are as tall as 8'. About the tallest ones I've seen here are in the 5-6' range and probably no more than 10-15 years old. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Ilex 'Sky Pencil'
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| Thanks bboy and holleygarden for the info. (thanks for taking the time to measure yours, holleygarden) Because I'm in need of a screen of 8' or more, I'm leery about a shrub that may stop at 6' or take many years to reach this height. Now would be a great time for someone else to write about his/her fast-growing 10-foot Sky Pencil! |
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| Gardengal,thanks for your helpful input. If only I could find some that are already 6' tall. |
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| Shrubs only stop growing taller when they die or die back. Even the tallest Coast Redwood trees produce new growth every year. |
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| Sorry to disappoint but, like holleygarden, we have had ours for about 3 years and they are also mainly in the shade except for morning sun. They grow very slowly - I would estimate about 2" - 3" per year. This year, however, I did some reading and discovered that they prefer a more acidic soil (our soil is more alkaline). I added sulfur to the soil and they seemed to grow a bit more this year, but perhaps that was also due to having a more mature root structure. The other thing we have found is that they are vulnerable to dessication, so putting them in a windy spot may not be a good idea since dessicated leaves really stand out on such a narrow shrub. |
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| Thanks swanoir. From your post and others I can see growth will be in inches per year vs. feet. Sun and acidic soil will help. The Sky Pencil Holly seems to be an enigma. One vendor of this 'slow grower' is a company called "Fast Growing Trees." A local nursery has some in 2-gallon containers on sale for $14.99. They are aproximately 4 feet tall. Yet no one knows how old the plants are...1 year (not likely), 2 year (my dream, but not likely)...3 year, 4 year (at $14.99, I think they are less than 4 years old). This would imply a rate of growth of over 1 foot per year! However, this does not seem possible based on the inputs and info I've read. |
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| Commercial growers often get extra fast growth out of stock that may be seldom seen in the general landscape. There is an economic motivation for them to learn how to "push" their crops to selling size as quickly and as frequently as possible. Once you learn how to differentiate each flush of growth you can frequently tell how fast a tree or shrub has grown in later years by studying its shoots and branches. Some growth modes lend themselves more readily to this than others. |
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| bboy, I understand commercial motivation. Differentiating growth flushes is something I can and already do, but it's not my obtective. I need a screen of 8' or more, the sooner the better. I also need factual inputs from people with first hand experience with the Sky Pencil Holly. You've posted quite a bit of generalized info on this chain, and it's enough now. :-) SP owners, keep posting because your inputs specific to this plant are very valuable. |
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| Mine is just over 8' tall if you include the 8" raised bed they are in (-; I bought it as a 1 gallon, 18" shrubling 7 years ago. So it has grown about (((8ft * 12) - 8in) - 18in) / 7yrs = 10in/yr Mine is in almost full sun (it is about a foot away from a 4' wooden fence on its west-northwest side). It has never been fertilized and only watered in rare occasions. |
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| brandon, thanks so much! Growth rate, light exposure, garden placement--I appreciate these details. What's the soil like in your part of Tennessee? I understand the Sky Pencil prefers a slightly acidic soil. |
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| The natural soil (underneath) is mostly clay, however the raised bed, where my Sky Pencil is planted, is "fancy" soil from a soil company. I don't remember which blend I brought in for that bed. |
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| Thanks brandon, your post gives me hope. The native soil here is hard clay and alkaline, and I have to amend it like crazy. Or I replace native soil with an import,as you did. I'm encouraged to know your Sky Pencils are close to 8'. |
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| In most cases, amending soil when planting shrubs and trees is not recommended. If you do use amended soil, use amendments sparingly and over a wide area (preferably as wide as the tree or shrub's root system at maturity). A raised bed (or berm) is different because drainage is not compromised. If I had my flowerbed to do over again, I would break up the native soil a little before topping it with the added soil. I had a larger growing tree in that same bed, on the other side, that blew over. When I removed it, I realized that the roots had grown down to the interface between the native soil and the added soil, but hadn't sufficiently rooted down into the native soil. I had planted that tree (the larger growing one that blew over) many years ago before I really knew much about soil, drainage, rootgrowth, etc. |
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| Out of necessity, gardeners and landscapers amend soil here. Otherwise, choices are limited to alkaline loving plants and very, very slow growth because a plant's root growth is hampered by hard clay. The aim of amending in this area is focused on increasing acidity/lowering alkalinity and improving drainage. I'm talking about clay so hard, a jack hammer is required at times instead of a normal shovel. Yes, it's important to consider the effect of wind since tornados are a regular feature here. :-) Some mature trees (my neighbor's for example) have root systems that run the length of their yard, our yard, and beyond. Shrubs have roots reaching deep across property lines as well. So amending the soil 'as wide as the tree or shrub's root system at maturity' may not be feasible in many cases. |
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| Jmac, Amending the soil generally impedes drainage! That is the main reason it's not recommended. If you fill a bathtub up with amended soil, it doesn't drain any better than before you filled it. Soil amendment used to be a popular recommendation. It was long ago proven to be detrimental in most cases. Unfortunately, the word hasn't gotten out nearly as well as it should have by now. A quick search of this forum and the tree forum will provide lots more info about this if you are interested. |
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| brandon, thank you for the Sky Pencil info. I'm not sure how this turned into a catechism on soil amendment, but I respectfully submit, "No thanks." Give people living in tornado alley some credit for knowing how to plant trees that won't be easily uprooted. Amending 'done wrong' does impede drainage...Who endorses that? I don't. |
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| Jmac, We were talking about soil amendment because you said, "The native soil here is hard clay and alkaline, and I have to amend it like crazy." Unless there is more to what you were trying to say or something I missed in your post, your statement seemed to contradict soil science. The physics involved doesn't change from one part of the country to the other. Variables (soil particle size, compaction, etc) may change, but the principles remain the same everywhere. Unless you are planting above ground (in a raised bed or berm), planting into the side of a hill (similar situation to planting above ground), are able to amend the soil to a depth where satisfactory drainage can occur (like down to a layer of soil with different drainage properties), or have some other way to address drainage, soil amendment is not a proper way to improve drainage. I particularly thought it might be important to address your comment because I was afraid that maybe you misunderstood what I had done. When you wrote, "...I have to amend (my soil) like crazy (or) replace native soil with an import, as you did", I was afraid that maybe you had misunderstood what I had done. I didn't replace my soil; I only added a new layer (raised bed) above grade. If you understand the principles of drainage, that's great, but I feel my comments are important because I don't want my mention of raised beds leading to misunderstandings. |
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| It's time to stop--please do not continue with the bullying, presumptious 'advice.' The assumption that I or other people in this area of the county don't know how to address drainage or acidity levels is simply ludicrous. I don't presume to know your soil, and you shouldn't to presume to know mine. I ask you to stop. |
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| I find it curious that you misrepresent what I wrote, and then get upset when I try to clarify. It seems a little bizarre actually. I NEVER claimed you didn't know how to address anything. But, because your comments introduced the possibility of a misunderstanding and because you made incorrect assumptions about what I had done, I felt it important to address what you wrote. If you want to stop talking about drainage, that's fine. You are certainly welcome to do so. |
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