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| Sorry, I ended up posting this in a couple areas as I wasn’t sure exactly where to put it. Looking to get some experts to chime in on these "partially" related questions.
1) Encircling surface roots – what do you do with them? Most of my shrubs/trees have been planted in the last 2 years. I noticed on a Willow, River Birch and Hibiscus they had an encircling surface root. I ended up snipping the root at the base of the stem as I didn’t want to rebury it and damage other roots. 2) How do you water your shrubs and trees (question for those who do NOT use irrigation)? I’ve been putting a soaker at the base of the main stem and letting it run for anywhere between 10min – 30min pending size of plants, actual moisture level and overall drainage. 3) How do roots search for water? As related above, if the water is soaking in lets say a 8ft diameter, how do the roots outside the 8ft get water? Do you continue to grow outward to search or can they turn back to get water? 4) Mulching up to shrub or tree stem, myth? I’ve always been told to keep mulch/ compost away from the main stem. Typically 6-12". |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Roots don't search for water. Instead, they grow where conditions are suitable. See the rest of my comments in your other post. |
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| Have a look at this .pdf. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Horticultural techniques for successful plant establishment
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| I don't know whether you are getting answers in your other threads or not. I'm not going to take time to search all of them down. If you don't get the answers you are looking for, I'd recommend simplifying your questions, maybe limiting them in scope to some degree, and only asking one per thread. I could type for a long long time just answering any of the questions. Maybe you would be satisfied with very brief answers, but it looks to me like way too much info to cover in a single post. |
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| Found most of my answers. The only thing I am not completely clear on, is if roots will turn back if the moisture isn't ample, or will they keep growing outward (assuming they are already facing outward). My main consern is being able to supply enough water to the entire canopy. From what I am hearing, now that the plants are established, I should focus on supplemental watering at the dripline and just beyond vs, putting a soaker at the base of the tree. |
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| Jean's answer ("Roots don't search for water. Instead, they grow where conditions are suitable.") really covered that pretty well, but... The particular part of the root system that is growing in unfavorable conditions will either slow its growth or die. The part of the root system growing in suitable conditions will continue to grow. Roots grow from their tips, just like the upper parts of trees and shrubs, and those tips will continue to grow in the same direction until an obstacle is met or until the plant "chooses" to terminate growth and blocks nutrient flow to and from that part. Trees should be watered so that their entire root zone is moist. Natural soil capillary action will help distribute moisture to some degree, but it is important not to water just around the base of the tree or just at and beyond the dripline. It is also important to water deeply enough so that moisture reaches the lower parts of the root system. Watering consistently in a limited area or shallowly can cause various problems including things like root system girdling and drought susceptibility because the root system is developed in a more limited area. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Thu, Sep 10, 09 at 8:51
| how about simplifying it down to basics ... if the tree or shrub is ESTABLISHED ... they need NO WATER AT ALL FROM YOU ... free range, one might say ... and as jean meant to say ... these plants will put the roots.. where the roots need to be... and you arent going to move them by watering somewhere else .. i THINK. the bottom line here.. is that you are doing.. and worrying about.. something that is NOT important ... i have seen whole states covered by forests.. that not once in their life.. from seedling on.. EVER got a drink from a human .... and i have seen shrubs at abandoned homesteads that are 100 years old.. that havent had a drink from a human in decades.. and those lilacs are bigger than the barn that is standing there ... IMHO .... forget about ESTABLISHED trees and shrubs.. and conifers .... and go find other things to do in your garden ... good luck ken ps: you water as long as necessary so that enough water gets into the root zone [until the plant is established] ... how long that is.. can only be defined by your soil.. in your garden.. with your index finger or a small hand shovel .. |
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| Yes all that is very true of drought tolerant trees and most natives. Of course Lilacs are going to be huge in an adandoned area, they don't like much water, lol! I agree with your comments about watering, my thing is....as you stated how do you know when the trees / shrubs are established? For the most part I chose alot of drought tolerant trees/shrubs but want to make sure I get them properly established. |
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| One indication that they are "established" is when they start producing significant top growth. |
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| Under ordinary circumstances girdling is caused by being left in a pot too long, not by how a plant in the ground is being watered. Roots always grow away from the center of the plant unless deflected by a barrier they can't cross - such as a nursery container wall. |
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| Poor watering practices (not ordinary circumstances) can lead to a congested root system similar to those found in situations where the root system is potbound. The mechanisms behind it are different, but the end result is similar. This phenomenon can also be encouraged by heavily amended backfill and is one reason soil amendments are not recommended when planting trees and shrubs. To note the difference, I added the word "system" in my phrase "root system girdling" in my second post above. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Thu, Sep 10, 09 at 15:14
| plants are ESTABLISHED.. when the have achieved the proper annual growth rate ... say i move an oak this year ... next summer ... i barely get leaves.. maybe 3 inches... 2nd or 3rd year.. a foot... the 3 or 4 th year... 3 to 5 feet ... as it was called.. significant top growth ... how many years is a function of all variables involved .... go to google.. add the latin name plus ANNUAL GROWTH RATE.. and you should get some pretty fast hits on such good luck ken |
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| A couple of things to take into consideration though are... The annual growth rate will vary by location and other factors. In less than ideal conditions, the tree may become established and still not grow as much as it would in another location. The term "established" is relative. Just because expected annual growth rate occurs, doesn't mean that the tree is completely established and would necessarily be able to handle a drought or other stress factor that a more well established plant of the same type would be able to handle. |
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| By the way, the reason I am worrying about this is that I've plant 10+ trees and over 100 shrubs over the last two years. I want to make sure I am instilling proper watering techniques so the plants establish themselves as quickly as they can. Last Auguest, driest on record. This July, thrird driest on record. Two drought like summers in a row is killing me with all the plantings I put in. Right now our 90 day rain total is 2.25". |
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| I know how you feel. We've had some severe droughts here in TN in the last few years. This year we've been back to about normal, thank goodness. It got so bad a few years ago, water rationing was the norm in many places around this part of the country. Like you, I had many newly planted trees and shrubs that had to be watered. My biggest issue was having to deliver water to all the new trees with my truck and water with buckets. Watering acres of trees by hand can be pretty time consuming. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 13, 09 at 19:33
| i cant believe that i mis-spoke and no one caught it ... and it took me all day to find this post to correct myself ... the annual growth rate is a function of MATURITY ... after transplant.. based on many variables.. there can be a regression of the previous growth rate ... i see this on 2 to 4 year old pines.. getting to a one foot growth rate.. but the year after transplant.. falling back to say 6 inches ... so that first year.. the plant is NOT ESTABLISHED... because it has not recovered from the transplant ... a year or two later.. it will be back to one foot.. and in a few more years.. will grow 2 to 4 feet ... when it closes in on maturity ... so.. for me.. ESTABLISHED ... is when it returns to it previous growth rate.. and exceeds it.. after the insult of transplant.. ball and burlap.. shipping.. wholesaler abuse.. retailer abuse.. etc ... there .... i feel better.. ken |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 14, 09 at 8:55
| oh for crying out loud.. lol ... in my world... there are 3 phases ... babe.. teen age.. and old man ... lol ... lets use nut trees as an example.. or conifers .... babes are babes ... no annual growth rate ... variable .... teens... have achieved the annual adult growth rate .... but are immature sexually ... a mature tree .. continues at the proscribed annual adult growth rate ... but has nuts.. ROTFLMBO .... or on a conifer... starts producing cones .... one would think... maturity is an issue of the reproductive phase.. not the annual growth rate... so transplanting/planting.. can interrupt whatever phase the tree is in ... presuming most of us do not move fully mature trees .... and thinking about a teenager ... a teen is.. IMHO 'established' ... when it returns to its previous growth rate.. or achieves the expected growth rate .... [and do NOT confuse 'teen' with a number of years ... i do NOT mean after 10 years that this happens] i have had more trouble with this post.. that i care to brag about.. lol ... and at this point.. give up .... though i do think i finally got in the ballpark at least ... what a hoot ... ken PS: perhaps you will never forget the phases of tree growth now.. lol ... |
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| Ken, have you been drinking this early in the morning? LOL |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 14, 09 at 13:59
| gotta be something.. eh brandon ... i dont know what is going on with this post.. lol ... below is a pic of a pine.. parv cleary .... if you look at the trunk.. you see its growth rate for the 1st few years.. [the distance between wholes of branches] .. is about a foot .... then it was planted.. and note the whorls.. are not as far apart ... this was transplant shock.. and 'getting established' .... spending energy growing roots rather than the canopy .... then the annual growth rate returns to where it was.. prior to the transplant .... at this point i would presume .... the plant has become 'established' ... [but i dont see any cones to presume it is mature] as they say.. a pic is worth a thousand words.. and boy did i use them here... lol ... and i pride myself on my brevity... lol ... boy did i fail on this one to HOPEFULLY come full circle ... since i presume it is fully established.. and has returned to the requisite annual growth rate.. I WILL NEVER WATER IT AGAIN... it is now free range... good luck little pine ... though i do need to re-mulch that bed .... ken
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| Cutting the roots dwarfed the top, until new roots formed in spring, elongated significantly the following autumn. The normal top growth rate does not return until the second spring and summer after planting because the main period for elongation of roots is in fall. Annual root-pruning of bonsai makes use of the fact that cutting the roots dwarfs the top. |
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