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| Mistakes in naming/taxonomy are frequent, especially from smaller nurseries and hobbyists, but I've run into lots of normally reliable sources that seem to disagree about this topic. So, if you understand the questions and have good answers, I'd REALLY appreciate some input!
1. What (very specifically/technically and taxonomically speaking) does Ilex x meserveae represent? (a nothospecies, etc) 1a. How does "Ilex x meserveae" fit into ICBN/ICNCP naming schemes? 2. Are holly cultivars like 'Mesdob', and other cultivars that don't result from crosses and backcrosses only between I. aquifolium and I. rugosa, really members of Ilex x meserveae? * Please assume that the x between Ilex and meserveae is a multiplications symbol. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| "hybrids between I. rugosa and I. aquifolium or I. cornuta and I. rugosa" And "Mrs. F. Leighton Meserve of St. James, NY produced the initial hybrids and they were introduced by Conard-Pyle Nurseries" The introduction of the 'China' series (cornuta x rugosa) was not a Mrs. Meserve creation but still got the x meserveae name (don't know why?). Her original introductions were of the 'Blue' series. |
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| When quoting you should give the source. |
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| Thanks for trying, but that's not what I'm looking for. I need a more specific/exact answer. AND, are you sure that Ilex x meserveae includes I. cornuta and I. rugosa crosses? If so, please explain! |
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| UConn was the source but that answer was pretty consistent until I found this site. It appears to be more comprehensive. http://www.ag.auburn.edu/hort/landscape/anr-837.htm Apologies to those who requested a source.... |
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| If you are talking about the UConn Plant Database web site, well... |
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| Back to my question...does anyone know, specifically, what type of name Ilex x meserveae really is? And, yes, I've posted the question in the Botany Forum, but no response so far. |
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| I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "type of name". Does this contain the answer your question? http://arnoldia.arboretum.harvard.edu/pdf/articles/1696.pdf Or does this? http://www.internationalplantnames.com/HTML/English/how_to_use_the_lis t.htm |
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| WOW! Yes, the Arnoldia one sure does! It confirms what I suspected, the name is a nothospecies name. There are just so many contradictions (like smivies' first link) that I thought maybe there was something I was missing. Ilex x meserveae contains only crosses (and backcrosses) between I. rugosa and I. aquifolium. Cultivars with any other parentage, like Ilex 'Mesdob' (aka China Boy), are not members of Ilex x meserveae. Sources like The Holly Society of America, The Morton Arboretum, Bernheim Arboretum, The University of Illinois, UConn, Monrovia, and hundreds of nurseries (at least in some of their documents) have it wrong. Thanks Wendy! |
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| According to the Global Biodiversity Information facility, there is only one nonthospecies for Ilex -- Ilex x attenuata. Several records for Ilex x meserveae are under "unconfirmed names". Interesting stuff. there are many others too. The arnoldia reference doesn't have a date, but I think it is quite old. I have run into similarly formatted arnoldia documents that go back 50-100 years. |
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| Wendy, I'm not sure where you see Ilex x attenuata listed as the only Ilex nothospecies, but all other Ilex nothospecies that I look up on GBIF site show as valid nothospecies names (including Ilex X meserveae). As a matter of fact, that site is another confirmation of the fact that Ilex X meserveae is a valid nothospecies. Those Arnoldia papers are very informative, even if old. Too bad there is so much misinformation on the internet these days. Makes one wonder if we are going in the wrong direction sometimes. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Nothospecies Ilex x meserveae
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| attenuata is the only confirmed name nothospecies. I don't know what they mean by "unconfirmed names". Do they need the Arnoldia reference too? The fact that the name is not confirmed could be why so many sites don't show meserveae in their taxon.
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| Hmmm, I don't know what they mean by that either, but maybe they are just saying they haven't reviewed it to confirm its correctness. Looks like they have a lot of confirming to do. There is so much info missing from many of these sites. Like eFloras...that site can be so helpful, but it would be really awesome if it were more developed. |
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| F. Galle, The Genus Ilex (1997, Timber Press) says Ilex x meserveae S.-y. Hu 1970 consists of "artificial hybrids of I. rugosa x I. aquifolium" and "at least 8 cultivars have been named". Under Blue Holly Group (p. 407) he says "There is confusion in popular literature and even with the Plant Patent descriptions as to the correct parentage". See the book for additional details. |
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