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'Lu Shan Snow'

Posted by sam_md z7 MD (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 3, 12 at 20:07

This selection of Camellia oleifera has got to be my favorite fall-blooming camellia. This one was raised from a cutting from the original at the Nat'l Arboretum which now measures over 24' in height. The flowers have a musky smell which I like. If you live in an area where C. japonica buds freeze in the winter or blight in the spring, think about a fall-blooming camellia.
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Here Common Witch-Hazel is in full bloom. The entire plant is a mass of yellow which presents a photographer's challenge for me. Easier to take a shot of one branch. Flowers have a sweet smell.
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These pics were taken today. How about you, do you have any shrubs blooming now?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Boy, do I want that Camellia! Did you buy it at the Arboretum sale? I have skipped that the last few years. Looks like I had better get here next spring. The witch-hazel is beautiful, too.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 7, 12 at 12:43

Vendors come up when you Google. Species has been on the wholesale market because an independent garden center here has stocked it before, perhaps the same selection.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

You didn't mention anything about the bark, but 'Lu Shan Snow' has the most exceptionally beautiful, cinnamon-colored smooth bark when mature. Of course, it hardly qualifies as a shrub given its mature dimensions... but it would be a gift to any garden with enough space to grow it. 'Lu Shan Snow' is very different from most selections of C. oleifera, in my opinion, but luckily the cultivar has been introduced and commercialized.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 10, 12 at 12:02

Many other camellias will be tall at 50 years of age also. Like other slow-growing but long-lived evergreens, they just keep rising up over the years, unless whacked back. C. japonica over 30' tall have been measured in Seattle.

Here is a link that might be useful: The U.S. National Arboretum presents Camellia oleifera 'Lu Shan Snow', an exceptionally hardy, fall blooming, tea-oil camellia that can tolerate temperatures as low as -10° F


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

That's absolutely correct--although it is a phenomenon that people in this climate are less likely to have seen examples of in the flesh since the plants are less common and (unshorn) living examples of great age are rare. That will likely change as hardy selections become more available and landscapes continue to mature.

It's also worth noting for anyone interested that 'Lu Shan Snow' is a somewhat atypical-looking C. oleifera (with much more attractive foliage and somewhat showier flowers), and it would be interesting to know if that is due only to intraspecific variation. It has been documented to donate somewhat lesser winter hardiness to its offspring compared to some other selections of the species, such as Ackerman's 'Plain Jane', and was probably not used as extensively as a parent for that reason.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

'Lu Shan Snow' is offered by Fairweather Gardens. It must be understood that FG is not a run-of-the-mill mailorder nursery. Those guys devoted themselves to Ackerman's collection.
All plants sell best when they are blooming. It seems that the average mortar & brick retailer would have a hard time selling fall blooming anything, especially after several frosts. Adding to that, 'Lu Shan Snow' takes a while to come into its own. I raised the plant in my OP from a cutting, its beautiful now but took several years to get to this point. Also, it gets at least 1/2 day sun. Even people who don't usually notice plants (such as every member of my family :( comment on this plant. Right now it has a nice carpet of pine needles under it which it really loves.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fairweather Gardens


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 13, 12 at 16:44

The fact that it's a single flower with big gaps between the petals is going to eliminate most consumers right there.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

I took this pic today in Maryland. This large shrub is smothered in fragrant flowers, especially welcome in November. Leaf margin is entire and spineless. Who else has flowering shrubs in November? Can you name it?
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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

That's a mature form of Osmanthus heterophyllus.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

My Osmanthus heterophyllus 'Gulftide' is in full, fragrant bloom - a great shrub (that is also very useful) for those who can grow it. Stefan are you sure that the photo is heterophyllus - that translates to 'different leaves' and refers to the fact that some are holly-shaped (toothed) and others not.

Love that Camellia - that may be the first Camellia that I have ever seen that I liked. I am going to have to try to hunt that down, thanks for posting that photo!


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Thanks for posting, though I'm experiencing zone envy.

My in-laws have a couple of Ericas/Heaths blooming right now. I thought they usually bloomed late winter, but perhaps they have gotten enough chill to want to bloom now, or perhaps they are a late fall-blooming variety. I'll try to get a photo in the next few days.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Sadly, I just discovered that Fairweather Gardens does not ship to California...too bad, as they have some lovely selections in addition to the Camellia.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 20, 12 at 21:08

Nuccio's has listed the straight species for years, as well as multiple other species camellias.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (NW) (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 20, 12 at 22:20

I have a Sheffield Mum just barely blooming, does that count?

Most plants dropped leaves and blooms for that matter in early October.

Zone envy here as well...


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

This osmanthus is especially nice, perhaps 6' high and 10' wide and dense. The leaves are totally lacking lobes or teeth or spines, can someone provide a cv. name?
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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Knock-out roses are a common sight anymore. Judging by the flower buds, these should be blooming well into December. I really can't fault this rose group.
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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Osmanthus americanus?


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

I should have been more clear, the two pics of osmanthus are the same plant, can anyone name this cultivar? I can't.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 21, 12 at 20:55

It's probably already been answered. Definitely a hollyleaf osmanthus, not definitely a cultivar.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

stefanb8 wrote you didn't mention anything about the bark.... and he's right. Here's the bark of C. oleifera 'Lu Shan Snow', one more attractive feature of a mature specimen.
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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

With this thread I'm trying to squeeze every drop out of the Fall season that's possible. Afterall, the Winter Solstice doesn't occur for another 21 days.
Here's C. sasanqua 'Yuletide' taken today:
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Here's an unnamed seedling of C. oleifera, pic taken today at the Nat'l Arboretum. The large shrub is absolutely smothered with flowers. At least for us, the first week of December is supposed to be mild, it will be a great time for these fall-blooming plants.
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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Winter Sweet lives up to its name during the mild spells that we've been having. The perfume is really strong. This one has Fall foliage color and flowers at the same time. Pic taken today
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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

This magnolia was acting up on Saturday...


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Pic taken today in downtown Baltimore. Never seen roses in January before. If this keeps up we will have cherry flowers next month.
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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Great post!

Sam, how large is your 'Lu Shan Snow' now? I have an oleifer seedling that is blooming after only about 2 years in ground. That's pretty good. I'll need to move it though, but maybe I should get a 'Lu Shan' instead, since it seems to be a superior cultivar.

The shrubby Osmanthus is likely heterophyllus. Osmanthus americanus has much larger leaves. Hard to know if it's a cultivar though. So many look alike. Its epithet 'hetero-phyllos' means both immature (holly form) and mature (entire) leaves can exist on the plant at the same time. If you look closer to the ground, likely you can find the immature leaf form.

It's been a great year for camellias. Mine are still in bloom since October (some varieties). Knockout Roses still blooming too...into January. Amazing.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Jan 12, 13 at 15:10

The magnolia is one of the Asiatic evergreen ones, formerly Michelia.

'Yuletide' belongs to Camellia x vernalis, C. sasanqua does not produce red flowers. The cultivar would get the redness from the C. japonica half of its parentage.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Hi Daveinnova, the 'Lu Shan Snow' in my op is 8 or 9'high and about 6' wide. I might mention that the foliage is dull and not glossy. I like the single flowers of this one and others because only the single flowers are fragrant. I really feel like the more sun the better for this plant to make flowers.
Regarding Osmanthus I remember seeing an entire hedge of them at Tufton Farm which is next to Monticello in Charlottesville. (actually I smelled them first) The foliage was as you described. OTOH the Osmanthus in my pic was found in an unremarkable front yard in Queen Anne's County which is probably zone 7b, there was nary a spine on the foliage, I looked! I think Stefanb8's observations are accurate, he also pointed out to me that this is a fruiting specimen. Am going back to the site next June and ask to take cuttings.
I see by your member page that you like evergreen oaks, do you have any interest in Lithocarpus? They would do well for you.
If you come to Green Spring Gardens Sale on May 18 there will be a non-profit vendor there with many camellias.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Sam, I got my small C. oleifera seedling at the Camellia Sale at Brookside Gardens one Spring. I'm a member of the Camellia Club. And I do live not far from Green Spring, so have attended those sales on occasion.

regarding Lithocarpus. I like any BLE, so Lithocarpus is on my list. I have some seeds starting, but still not sure where in my yard it would go. I also have many other BLEs in pots that still need a spot. LOL!

Regarding evergreen oaks in general, I currently have, in ground, three Q. virginianas, two Q. myrsinifolias, and one Ubame Oak (Quercus phillyraeoides). I have some Q. acutas that need to be planted out.

Here's a shot of a nice O. heterophyllum at the National Arboretum. Getting to be huge. It reminds me of an old olive tree.


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Closeup of that Osmanthus

Sam, here's a closeup of that Osmanthus at the arboretum.

There are no spines on this mature foliage.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Jan 18, 13 at 14:01

Known over 22' tall in Seattle (USDA 8).


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

I took this pic of the original Lu Shan Snow today at the Nat'l Arboretum. This plant was unphased by the great camellia freezout in the '90s and Snowmegeddon did not bother it in the least. I understand that in China it is not considered an ornamental but instead it is grown for oil production. This is the plant that lends cold hardiness genes to its hybrid offspring.
 photo 11-16-13010.jpg


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Sam,

I am enjoying your great photos of plant with 'winter interest'.

In addition to a seed-grown C. oleifera, which is sort of interesting (gift from Dr. Ackerman), I also have a 'Snow Flurry' in the ground. That one was also an Ackerman hybrid I believe. It is a double-flowered late Fall bloomer. Picked it up from Lowes for $9 if you can believe that! Am wondering how large it will get. I suppose, like most camellias, it can get quite sizeable....just needs time.

I wonder if those spineless Osmanthuses were grown from cuttings of mature wood -- that is, from their spineless form and then maintained that form. There is a mostly spineless variety 'Rotundifolia', but it has more rounded leaves than yours show.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Hi DinNOVA,
About one year ago I was traveling north of Centerville on 213. I saw the osmanthus, covered with white on the left and slammed on my brakes (you can figure out the rest)
The reason I liked the plant so much is it is not at all leggy or bare at the base like the ones in Asian Valley. I saw something similar at Tufton Farm, nr Monticello.
Rooting cuttings of these is child's play. Now let's see if they will overwinter in my area which is a cold Z 7.
 photo 11-17-13001.jpg


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Sam, are all osmanthuses easy from cuttings? Nice cuttings you have!

What is your rooting technique -- baggy covered pot? Did you use heat at all. What time of year?

Oh yes, I understand the 'I brake for great plants' mentality. LOL!


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

My Sansanquas are still in the bud stage. I started them from cuttings from an unnamed plant.
Sam, I envy you being so near the National Arboretum and can easily visit it at different times of the year.
I spent a day there a few years ago and loved it. One day was not near enough time. It surprised me the 'rocks' in Rock Creek were actually bricks. I exited at the Gotelli Conifer Collection into a newspaper parking lot where I got a ride with the Foreign Editor to the subway and back to Foggy Bottom near the Watergate Hotel.
Fun trip!
Mike


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

I don't know what the heck happened to this thread, but since it's something of a hodge podge anyhow:

the great freeze out at the National Arboretum was in the late 70s, not 1994. Literally hundreds of cultivars were killed, most of them so completely they didn't even return from the roots. That winter was so severe that some American hollies were outright killed. Part of what's little discussed it is was accompanied by a drought of several months...the plants were already under stress. This is discussed in various sources like the old Washington Star Garden book and the writings of Henry Mitchell. 1994 was a bad winter, but not quite as bad as those of 77-85. I had a Dr. Tinsley survive 1994, albeit with severe damage. Most of SE Virginia did not go below 0F in 1994...all of it did in 1985.

How big does a O. heterophyllus have to get to undergo the "heterophyllation"? (haha) Mine - non cultivar - is over 8' now and has not converted yet. Not a single leaf yet. And...these plants are always reproduced by cuttings right? So, are nurserymen just striking cuttings of the immature form, or will a cutting of a mature form realize that it is now a juvenile plant, and revert to the spiny foliage? Of course some forms supposedly never convert, which is the point of cultivars like Sasaba, which I also have. Both have flowered, the fragrance is nice but not particularly strong. I'm buying an O. X fortunei for that now...kinda wish I'd just gotten that one instead of the O. heterophyllus in the first place.

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 20:45


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

hi davidrt28, you're right about the great freeze out, I got my decades mixed up. Here are some of the survivors in the camellia collection:
C. japonica 'Berenice Boddy', 'Leucantha', 'R.L. Wheeler', 'Blood of China', and most notably 'Variety Z'.
As noted earlier the original 'Lu Shan Snow' was unphased and a relic C. sasanqua 'Agnes o. Solomon' survived.
Down near the river's edge stands two seedlings from a cross of 'Leucantha' X 'Variety Z'. The better of these has been named 'Anacostia'
A little bit OT but its important to note, the Nat'l Arboretum is only open Fri - Monday for the indefinite future. Lets just say it has fallen victim to budget cuts, parts of it are completely given over to English Ivy. From here the only way to go is up.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

Sam, since we are posting photos of Fall Color, here's a nice fall-blooming camellia in my yard as of this Nov 20th. Ashton's Supreme (Ackerman hybrid).

Yes, it's sad how the arboretum has had its budget cut back. I'm afraid large sections might eventually just get overgrown. We'll see.


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RE: 'Lu Shan Snow'

How interesting. I have a video about Lu Shan. It talks about a grandma ...

http://youtu.be/21OMD6tD1VU


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