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louisianagal

how would one add / help mycorrhizae

louisianagal
12 years ago

On another thread (very long and informative - why do soil testing), mycorrhizae in the soil are discussed. How would one add, inoculate, facilitate mycorrhizae in one's gardens (mostly ornamental with edibles mixed in and some raised vegetable beds)?

Comments (70)

  • organic_popeye
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Small correction - Glomalin is a glycoprotein not a protein. It has sugars as well as proteins and that is why it is such a good soil glue. Google glomalin and go exploring, it's fun!

  • Lloyd
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd be interested in a small experiment. Put one seed in a pile of some inoculant stuff, one seed in a pile of compost, one seed in some soil and one seed in a pile of soil/compost mix. See which ones grow the best.

    Lloyd

  • ralleia
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm plotting on doing an experiment...probably separate trials of tomato, peppers, peas, beans, cucumbers, squash, and some trees.

    It'll work out to be double-blind since after I write down what I did and plant it, I'll forget which is which in a couple weeks.

  • bi11me
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Post the pics for peer review!

  • ralleia
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'll post lots of pictures and methods for peer review. It won't be for many months yet, though, since it isn't even planting season here. About the only thing getting planted now are brassicas, which are known to generally *not* have any symbiosis with myco fungi.

  • novascapes
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Does the mycorrhizae inoculate for gardens and grass form the same symbiotic relationship as clover, and other legumes?
    What effect does soil composition, pH, and climatic conditions have on the effect of adding the inoculate? Or are there different types for different situations?
    What is the dormant lifespan of the inoculates being sold commercially?

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If one believes that adding this "miracle product" to your soil will help, it will. If one believes that spending money for something one does not need is necessary, it is.
    Each plant forms a symbiotic relationship, mycorrhizal, with different species of fungi. There is not any one species of fungi that will form that relationship with every plant and some plant families do not form that symbiotic (mutually beneficial) relationship, so purchasing from somewhere something labeled "Mychorrizal Fungi" may or may not be of benefit to your garden. Or it might simply be a waste of your money.
    Since we know that tilling the soil will disrupt the Soil Food Web, from whence these fungi come, enough to set them back for a year, maybe more, how would one know if this package of fungi is still alive?

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In tropical climes with perennial plants, I can see an ongoing mycorrhizal structure. What I don't see is an overwintering structure in our northern gardens. I see more of a spore medium...like all other fungi that overwinter. If deep tilling would kill fusarium, I would be out there doing it.

  • jolj
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, you folks have not got me to stop tilling.
    But my princess said she does not like to pull weeds.
    So the beds I am putting in for her, will be no till.
    I will use heavy mulch, maybe cardboard to keep weeds to a manageable amount(Ruth Stout system).
    When I think microbes, I prefer Bacteria over fungi.
    The Bacteria based soil is what I compost with now.
    The Bacteria is a little more forgiving of light tilling also.
    As most of you know I know little about this subject & will be learning as I garden.

  • ssmdgardener
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kimmsr, I wanted to learn more about MF after reading Popeye's posts, so I've been perusing academic articles on google scholar.

    What I've learned is that inoculating with arbuscular mycorrhiza fungi has been found to be beneficial in all sorts of situations, such as preventing transplant shock; reducing the effects of high salinity; production of peppers; growth of container plants in nursery conditions, etc.

    As many of you know already, research indicates that intense tilling reduces native AMF. As you might suspect, using fall cover crops increases the native AMF population.
    Research ALSO indicates that inoculating seedlings in AMF when planting in low-AMF soil tilled soil resulted in much larger plants at harvest (about 2.5 times larger).

    According to the research, the inoculated colony of AMF survives and proliferates, even in the presence of native AMF. And these are multiple studies from multiple researchers who have no financial stake in it.

    So.... I'll be doing my own little research project this spring using MF in containers.

  • organic_popeye
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    pt03, Don't put a seed in pure mycorrhizal inoculant and try to grow it. It is NOT soil or a growing medium, it is an inoculant. Don't waste it by trying to grow plants in it. Do your trials with the same soil and fertilizer for multiple plants with the only difference being mycorrhizae or no mycorrhizae. Then you get an honest trial.

    Novascapes, In general, grasses, flowers, vegetables and the like use Endo mycorrhizae. Woody shrubs and trees use Ecto mycorrhizae and some plants use both. In a previous post I mentioned Mycorrhizal Applications, a website that has a downloadable list of plants and which mycorrhizae they use. The Endo type of choice is Glomus Intraradices, the most common and found on every continent where plants grow.

    Any mycorrhizal inoculant should have a minimum shelf life of a year if kept dry and at room temp. I use mine well before then cause as the old saying says, "It ain't doing us any good in the bag." This saying was in reference to fertilizers but also applies here. The nitro-fixers on legumes you are referring to are bacteria, not fungi. They form nitrogen nodules on the plant roots which can be seen as little bumps. If your soil is in the ph range to grow plants, mycorrhizae are not affected. My 2010 garden ph was 8.8 - SEVERELY alkaline due to excess magnesium, potassium and sodium. Calcium was perfect. The soil was 80+ percent silt. My 2011 garden ph was 7.3 - slightly alkaline, 60% sand and 40% silt and too porous. The excess minerals mentioned above as well as calcium were leached down out of the root zone and that was why the ph was lowered. Organic Matter (not humus) was less than 1%. My 2011 garden was not as good as the 2010 garden but still produced excellent flavor but smaller plants and yield was not as good. I could still see night and day differences in my inoculated plants vs the controls not inoculated, so it appeared that the mycos were functioning very well. Were you able to contact Michael Melendrez yet?

    We need to remember that mycorrhizal inoculants can contain propagules or spores or both. Propagules are broken pieces of hyphae and spores are like eggs. Propagules are not nearly as viable as spores and many of the myco products use propagules with some spores. Soil Secrets has mostly spores but there are probably some propagules in there too but they count the spores only. If you are considering ANY myco inoculant, call them and ask them for a spore count. If they can't give you one, I would continue shopping.

    Mycorrhizae winter over very well. We must remember that when the season is over and the root systems die, the mycorrhizae go dormant until next year when a living root system puts out sugar to attract them again. This is why we don't have to keep inoculating once we have them established. Also, being foragers, mycorrhizal hyphae have been found 2 or 3 feet out from inoculated plants in just one season! They really go searching for plant nutrients.

    ssmdgardener, Good on ya for doing your research and for your research project. In fact all posters here scheduling container/field trials are right on and good on ya too! THIS is how we find out the truth concerning whether a product is effective or not - TEST IT! From my chair, lame statements with no valid references don't cut it.

    jolj, I would read about the Soil Food Web. Bacteria and fungi form the 1st level and both are needed. True, grasses are bacterially dominated and forests are fungal dominated. Most of the wild plants, flowers, vegetables, etc. fall in between, so we need a mixed bag.

  • Lloyd
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry popeye, I was being a bit facetious. IMO people tend to forget that growing plants is more complicated than any one item. It is a system, and it works in ways we can only guess at, but it does work. People tend to look for one silver bullet that is the be all and end all. In doing so, they get sold a bunch of stuff they don't really need to buy.

    Lloyd

  • Kimmsr
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Prior to what ever year people started selling Mycorrhizal Fungi it was part of the Soil Food Web and functioning quite well in soils properly cared for, that is how researchers found this fungi. Since this is something Ma Nature provided long before man "discoivered" it and it was doing what it did without man even knowing about it, why is it now necessary to spend money on something Ma Nature will supply if we but make our soil into a good, healthy soil?
    As Dr. Alex Shigo found in the research he did there are many different kinds of of fungi that form that symbiotic relationship with plants and those that work well with trees do not work well with roses.

  • novascapes
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I found this link below and thought I would pass it along as it is pretty easy to understand.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Glomalin What Is It

  • ssmdgardener
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kimmsr, in the research I've read, AMF was particularly useful when the SFW wasn't functioning well for a variety of reasons: high salinity; high heavy metal contamination; prior coal mining land; over tillage; intensely farmed agro land; nurseries that grow for retail, etc.

    I know I've made some dumb mistakes with over tilling, so my SFW isn't functioning optimally, either, and I can't grow fall cover crops in my small back yard. Also, I'll be doing a lot of container gardening, and there is no AMF to start with in my plastic containers. That's why I'll be doing the investigating this year to see if the inoculant will be effective for me.

    I only found 1 recent (post 2000) article by Dr. Shigo. His results echoed the other studies in that high phosphorus fertilizers in the presence AMF depresses plant growth.

  • ralleia
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Does the mycorrhizae inoculate for gardens and grass form the same symbiotic relationship as clover, and other legumes?
    What effect does soil composition, pH, and climatic conditions have on the effect of adding the inoculate? Or are there different types for different situations?
    What is the dormant lifespan of the inoculates being sold commercially?

    Yes, the myco also form a symbiotic relationship with legumes. However, different species of the myco favor one plant type or another, so it isn't so simple as to call them all the same. There are quite a few research studies that you can peruse to find out more about it, but for example the study in the link below found that legumes were more heavily colonized by Glomus clarum (an endo-mycorrhizal fungi) than non-legumes were. But both legumes and non-legumes were colonized.

    So there will certainly be more suitable groups of species of mycorrhizal fungi depending on what plant you are trying to grow.

    The soil conditions can have an impact on the fungi--artificial fertilizers or soil fumigants can inhibit growth or kill the fungi. Also, the commercial formulations of myco typically contain other ingredients to support the growth of the myco. I stumbled across a reprint of a wonderful article that explains things well.

    Mycorrhizal Management article

    It's a great article, and if you search on the author's name you will find that he is a big name in myco research, though I am not familiar with the site that hosted the reprint.

    The myco formulations that I have purchased all have a one-year expiration date. I thought that for the powdered stuff there was also a limited time to use it from when it got wet, but I can't find where I read it.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Legumes, non-legumes, and myco study

  • ralleia
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well this is interesting, concerning the lifespan of different myco products. If you research the different products, you'll find that some cite spores/cubic centimeter, while some cite propagules.

    Mycorrhizal fungi are sold as spores, the "seeds" of fungi. Propagules, or root fragments, last only a couple of weeks away from their hosts, whereas spores are viable for at least eighteen months after produced. The spores come in different forms. Granular forms can be mixed into potting soil, mixed with water and drenched into rocky porous soil, applied as a root dip gel on bare root plants, or injected into the root zone of existing plants using a soil probe. The goal is to get the spores in physical contact with the roots that they will colonize. Application is easy and inexpensive, and requires no special equipment. For small plants, cost is only a few pennies per plant.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Pacific Horticulture article

  • Karenlow
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    organic_popeye, I beg to defer but there is a Professor in Kota Kinabalu Sabah who is very knowledgeable in this subject. He has come up with mycorrhizae that has more than a million spores in 1 teaspoon. I doubt if anyone can beat that. His web site is: www.agroecologic.com and his name is Prof Victor Lee, one of the kindest men I have every met.

  • Kimmsr
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mycorrhiza refers to a type of relationship some fungi develop with plants and not to a specific type of fungi. If you make your soil into a good healthy soil those fungi will develop that symbiotic, mutually beneficial, relationship without you spending money on something that will probably not help since the fungi that form those relationships with trees are not the same as those that form that relationship with tomatoes.
    If you want fungi to develop a symbiotic relationship with your plants work at making the soil into a type that will promote that instead of looking for magic elixars that will not work unless you have that good healthy soil they can exist in. If you do not have a good healthy soil throwing some stuff labeled "Myorrhizal Fungi" will not help since the conditions they need to live in are not present. If you have a good healthy soil they will be there so the need to add some will not be there.

  • msomally
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would love to see if I have mycorrhizae in my soil. Is there an easy way to tell or do I need to take a sample to my local extension office for testing.
    Thanks and Happy planting to all!

  • Kimmsr
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can dig down into the soil and look for the tiny white filament like structures various fungi form in soils. A good mycologist should be able to identify which fungi is what and the people at your local Cooperative Extension Service office should be able help you get samples.

    Here is a link that might be useful: soil fungi

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In some cases I think it is a great idea to inoculate. I grow blueberries and the soil around here is basic. So I grow them in raised beds. No native fungi for blueberries exist around here, No wild plants, no acidic soil. So adding the proper fungi is a must. I'm sure this is true with many species not found in native soils. Tomatoes and peppers are tropical plants. I would not think the proper fungi would be present. Most mycorrhizal products do not contain the proper spores for blueberries. it is still difficult to find.
    As far as wasting your money, well I would agree with that if they were expensive but they are dirt cheap (pun intended), costing pennies a plant, so that is not a good argument. I can afford 5 bucks a year to inoculate my plants. Even if not needed, no great loss at all. A farmer might consider cost, I'm just a backyard grower and it costs about 5 bucks to inoculate about 250 plants.
    So you can work your soil to be as organic and as accommodating as possible, but how you will attract tropical fungi? I'm not sure? Oh you could put them there yourself...

    This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Feb 6, 15 at 7:23

  • hummersteve
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The more read and know about mycos the more I think a lot of it is just the corporates pushing to make a profit for this stuff is anything but cheap. People that have a nicely growing flower/veggie garden already know that is proof that mycos is growing in it because of all the organcs like compost they have put in it. Even though Im losing confidence in the need to add it to good soils I have purchased some in which Im going to run my own side by side test to see if there will be a difference. It will be done in pots so there will only be what I add but I do want to see if there is any visible difference at all. Will any hyphae even develop?

  • chickencoupe
    9 years ago

    Thanks, francoisefromaix.

    I often wonder. I have poplar trees that I continuously fight. Yet, I have mushrooms wherever their roots become established. And this is in Oklahoma. And sometimes in drought. I read the book Teaming with Microbes and scanned through his other book. It makes sense, but that's a lot of biology I don't want to wade through.

    The best way I can get to the results is study permaculture methods. Cuz all I read in text about these parallels what permaculture teaches.



  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    I find the last few comments bogus as the creators of MycoGrow Mycorrhizal

    fungi has won some of the most prestigious awards science has to offer. Paul Stamets created the brand I use, MycoGrow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAw_Zzge49c

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    I must admit it's hard to argue against "the best university in the world" I think that statement says it all.

    Really? Come on we are not that ignorant. All of agriculture has acknowledged the benefits of using fungi, where you been?

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    Show me one study, one university paper that says these products sold are no good?

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    Thousands of studies confirm the value of fungi, it's not a theory but proven science.

    The mods say not to buy? What mods? Ha!! That was funny!

  • kimmq
    9 years ago

    No one is saying that the fungi that form that Mycorrhizal relationship with plants is not beneficial, what we are saying is that spending money on products that are supposed to be that is a waste of your money if you soil does not have the levels of organic matter to support them, and that if the soil has adequate amounts of organic matter those fungi will be there and there will be no need spend you money on something that may not be what you really want.

    In an article in Fine Gardening magazine Jeff Gillman, PhD in horticulture, stated that purchasing something as specious as Mycorrhizal fungi was pretty much a waste of your money.

    kimmq is kimmsr

  • FrancoiseFromAix
    9 years ago

    Drew, I didn't want to upset you. Obviously I'm aware of the important role fungi play and have played in ecosystems. They were the first "roots" when "plants" came out from the oceans to colonize the soil. However, those scientists I met said it was very difficult for them to get spores to germinate and they work in state of the art labs in which money isn't too much of a problem when they need state of the art stuff. They're not too stupid either. And they're passionate. I guess they gave me good advice when they said to keep my money.

    Spores don't keep well.

    Spores need specific conditions to germinate.

    Plants will not establish any relationship if their environment brings them everything they need, which is the case in most gardens. Why would plants abandon the sugars they manufacture with solar energy if they don't get something they lack in exchange ?

    Honest I wish those fungi sellers were really efficient, I would then eat truffles every day ;-)


    As for beneficial bacteria that are often included in the mix, this is pure bull poop because either they are so common they're everywhere, or they're totally useless to plants. Usually both. And same as with spores, are they dormant or totally dead one cannot know.


    But I have to admit that reading all the infomercial of the sellers I just want to take out my card and order. Hence I guess if it makes one happy why not ? But buying real bull poop, or cow poop, or worm poop, will be cheaper and more beneficial to gardens.



  • joepyeweed
    9 years ago

    I went to a Native Plant Conference in January where one of the speakers pretty much debunked the entire mycorrhizal myth. in his greenhouse, he germinates and grows in sterile soil all the plants and legumes that have been said to require mycorrhiza.

  • chickencoupe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I don't want to argue, because I certainly don't know much about fungi. I did read Teaming with Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels. I read the second book (or is Teaming with Microbes the second?) I was never any good at chemistry.

    More importantly, I made changes to my yard. I turned it into a garden where poplar trees line one side. They're big tall trees. I have my clothes line attached to them and it spans the width of the yard where the other ends rests on the old satellite dish pole. Worthless satellite dish, good pole. The sun, air and clothesline is great technology. The satellite dish? Not so much.

    I have shrooms growing under those poplar trees. They came about after I made changes to the yarden. I notice all the grass, wild chives, dandelion, lambsquarters and other native perennials flourishing around those tree lines are absolutely stunning in health. Like no other in the yarden.

    SO, I'm thinking it's this fungi connection. Now, when I traverse the muddy walkway to hang my clothes on the line I kick the shrooms around making certain I rub my shoes into them. With that, perhaps, I can carry the spores around to other areas of the garden. Granted, I've no idea what this fungi is or if it is solely dependent upon poplar tree whose roots are horrifyingly difficult to contain. Unlike any other area, the poplar tree saplings from its runners are terrifyingly persistent and those roots constantly stretch into the garden much further than the tree line. I would certainly know because I'm constantly pulling roots to condition the soil for vegetable plantings. But I'm happy things are working even though I've no real idea why, but for suggestions of the 'm' connection for which Lowenfels writes.

    The shrooms are coming back. Now, I'm wondering if it would be helpful, somehow, to intentionally carry the shrooms around into the planting areas for things like... oh... tomatoes?

    I welcome any suggestions. I'll admit, I'm a bit lazy and terrible at chemistry so reading a theses on the establishment of any one of a gabillion types of fungi is not my cup o' tea.

    bon

    *I'd be remiss if I did not add that I live in Oklahoma. The back yard where I'm growing things is, essentially, an old prairie field. Consequently, on either side of my yard lies thickets or small forests. This is interesting under the weight of shebear's statement, "The most fertile land is a prairie. The most diverse is where the prairie and the forest meet.

    And, also, I'm very poor. Throwing money at gardening other than seed is pretty near impossible. SO, I make the best of what I have and use permaculture techniques to enhance what is already there. That's ironic in light of what kimmsr writes: If one provides the proper environment, ie. a soil well endowed with organic matter, the fungi that form that symbiotic relationship will develop without any innoculation necessary, without the need to spend more money on something that might not even work with the plants you are growing.

    But I'm not going to argue! ha

  • jolj
    9 years ago

    Fungi is not the only way, bacteria microbes will do the same thing, even if you till in organic matter at the beginning of every growing season. I was doing this, before Mr. Lowenfel wrote his book.

    I have used cow,horse,pig,rabbit & chicken manure compost, also vegan/ only plant based compost too.

    In 1969 my Aunt told me to go out around a large Oak tree & get the rich dirt for house plants. Much of this is not new to many plant lover, who have past it down over the years.

  • chickencoupe
    9 years ago

    Ty! Kinda where I got the idea and you just reminded and reinforced the idea. Even before reading that book I could see my best dirt was up along the fence line where the perennial flowers never failed to bloom. I understand it to be from the natural compost that accumulates. I acquired some and moved it to my first planter. Still my best soil. Granted, I moved a bunch of bugs, too. LOL

    I'm looking into identifying native prairie grasses for a couple of garden beds. ( I have a long gently sloping back yard where the bottom section is a different climate and is, basically, old prairie with rocky droughty clay loam. Soil testing returned as "perfect".) Since I removed the bermuda, fescue and Johnson Grass some very interesting things are trying to come up. It's a lot of fun, but I'm worried about exposing it.


  • lisascenic Urban Gardener, Oakland CA
    9 years ago

    Fascinating conversation!


    I've made a practice of digging aged compost and decomposing wood chips into my heavy silt soil. I'm trying to improve the texture and to add organic material. Where there was none evident, my soil now is riddled with the white filaments I associate with fungal growth. When it rains (we're in the middle of a multi-year drought), I see interesting woodland mushrooms in the garden.


    My improvements were free. Their only costs were my own effort. It seems to me that my soil and garden crops have improved, but there are too many factors (including my own better understanding of what plants to sow) to say that one thing was responsible for the improvement.


  • jolj
    9 years ago

    Organic popeye, I know from growing in animal manure only that we do not need both kinds to raise a great crop.

    The cows & horses where feed hay thought a slit in the barn wall, they stood there eating & making waste for 24 months. Some hay got trampled in to the soil manure mix, nothing else was added. The animal where then moved to a new pasture & the mix lay untouched & rotted over the winter. I planted it in the Spring, I knew very little about composting or organic gardening at the time. I had a great tomato, bean,squash crop that year.

    No wood chips or any bag products of any kind, just rotten manure & a little hay.

    No weeds in the patch only annual grasses that I pulled, one of the best gardens I every grew.

    That was in 1973 & I have grown organic ever sense.

    Wood clips are good for perennial beds, but I till in compost every growing season in annual beds, some get compost 3 times a year.

    Tilling also kills harmful insects that Winter over, as much as 90% in some studies.

  • hummersteve
    8 years ago

    When you add a new garden as Im going to do this spring there will be no mycorrhizae in the soil so I will be adding it to each and every plant or seed, plus all the added composted manure and other amendments. I want to stay as organic as possible even with the new garden. I may add some time release fert.


  • Puppet2
    8 years ago

    There is a lot of information about soil on the UC Davis . Here is a link to a PDF published on soil and what is needed for plants to grow great crops. I hope that this helps you. There is alot to know. http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/7249.pdf

  • jolj
    8 years ago

    Mycorrhizae are in all soil that has any organic matter at all in it & much more when you add compost form your compost pile.

    Why dose everyone think this is all new, just because a few authors wrote a few books.

    This fungus & bacteria symbiotic relationship is been in the earth for millions of years, with no help from man, in deep forest & prairie for many years.

  • azdoctor
    8 years ago

    organic_popeye:


    You've presented some good information. HOWEVER, it is not true that 'it has only been since 1990 that the research unlocking mycorrhizal benefits was initiated.' Check out work by Don Marx, dating back to this: Marx, D. H. 1975. Mycorrhizae and establishment
    of trees on strip-mined land. Ohio
    J. Sci. 75:288-297. Also check out http://www.planthealthcare.com/pdf/IR_Presentations/Introduction%20to%20Mycorrhizae%20-%20Marx%20.pdf


  • soilhugger541
    8 years ago

    PHC, Myco, Soil Secrets LLC, and EctoMycoRUs all have a product to sell. Soil health is where the focus needs to be. I have to think that unless the soil has been sterilized (which folks do and then do go on to produce various crops), then the soil an individual is considering growing a plant in, is acceptable as a starting point, with numerous beneficial microbes contained within it. You could inoculate with earthworms too but after a few years of focused soil correction (balancing nutrition and OM) the earthworms come all by themselves. I don't fully trust any company that stands to make a profit by selling an inoculant that goes in the ground. I do trust the research that shows if you balance your soil's nutrients and contribute a smart ratio of green and brown manures, all the microbes take care of themselves and the soil benefits...

    If we are all now citing our comments, look to any one of Albrecht's Volume's (I prefer Vol. 7 "Albrecht on Soil Balancing", since he was a little less prone to run on sentences by then) and Hand's On Agronomy by Neal Kinsey. Acres USA website is a good jump off point since they've been working with Neal and Dr. Albrecht for a very long time and coordinated the development of Brookside Laboratories in New Bremen, OH. A company that represents no fertilizers, amendments, or any other products other than knowledge.

  • Puppet2
    8 years ago

    jolj(7b/8a) I do not think that everyone is just now getting excited about Mycorrhizae, now, all of a sudden. I think that there is continually new gardeners becoming interested in soil and gardens and growing organic healthy food for themselves and their families. To them this is all very new information because they have not been around this stuff as long as others have say since the 1970's. I am excited about so many people talking about these things because I hope eventually the big bully's like Monsanto will have to stop giving people the wrong idea about growing things because Monsanto and other companies like them, are one of the largest contributors to the killing of our soil and genetically modified seeds and food introduced into the food chain.

  • jolj
    8 years ago

    I do not use round up, but I know people who have used it for 20 years around their garden & still grow some beautiful, tastefully vegetable I have ever eaten.

    I keep hearing how Monsanto & round up kills the soil, yet this man has used round up to weed his garden for over 20 years, is 80 something year old now & works like he is 60, & harder worker then some 40 year old people I know.

    So I am not sure why people who do not use round up are sure or have proof that it is killing the soil.

    But I can only go by what I see, cause I have been a organic gardener for 40 years & do not use round up, just know folks who do.

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    8 years ago

    The WHO report is totally bogus, and should be retracted. A great example of fake science.
    I don't like to agree with Monsanto, but in this case they are correct. Actually the WHO is a joke. Coffee is also considered as dangerous as round up by WHO. So I think that says it all. Also being a barber is just as dangerous.


  • david52 Zone 6
    8 years ago

    FTA: estimated agricultural use of glyphosate in 2012, the most recent year available, at more than 283 million pounds, up from 110 million pounds in 2002.

    Tots harmless, eh?

  • soilhugger541
    8 years ago

    http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/26614-monsanto-s-roundup-linked-to-cancer#


    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/05/monsanto200805


    WHO/IARC or not, Monsanto has been perfecting the art of world food domination. Causing cancer along the way would not be enough to stop them.


    The WHO never said coffee is as dangerous as roundup. The only mention of coffee by the WHO indicated that they will assist coffee growing regions by helping them identify a fungal toxin that can be present in their coffee, and to prevent that toxin from making its way to consumers.


    What makes this fake science? Anyone up for drinking a cup of roundup?

  • jolj
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The man in my story has a wife, 3 grown children & 5 gran children.

    None are sick, all eat his vegetables most of their life.

    So while I do not use round up, & have been organic for 42 years, I can say that if anything short of drinking a cup of round up is half as harmful as many say.

    Why is this family so healthy?

    As for drinking round up, I do not drink beer, moonshine, smoke pot, cigarettes or use nose candy & they are proving beyond a doubt to be harmful.

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/index2.html

    I would think any poison used to kill plant is not good for you, & only an insane person would drink it. By the way tomato plants are poisonous, too.

    I just do not think because I do not like what someones doing, it makes them Satan.

    So we can just agree to disagree.

  • soilhugger541
    8 years ago

    None are sick? Compared to whom? The rest of America that is sick? Seen any statistics on what is really killing Americans these days? It's what they eat. Eating out of the home garden that sprays roundup near their food crops, not a big deal. Try spraying the crops you do eat (that survive!), then we can talk. Good news for most everyone in the world, is that your food came presprayed, and probably with more than just glyphosate.