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| About 1/2 acre of our lot is oak woodland, Soil is 6"-9" of topsoil, then sand and gravel. Soil structure test comes up with 4" of sand, 1/8" of silt and <1/8" of clay.
I'd like to set up a long-term program to improve the soil. I can easily get seaweed and woodchips, and buy good compost @~$25/yd^3. Woodchips and seaweed are free, <1 mile away. Realistically I can haul and spread up to 300 lbs/1000ft^2 of each per year, and I'm game to put down maybe 1/2 yd^3/1000ft of compostonce or twice. Does it make sense to haul seaweed and woodchips into the woodlot? I'm in this for the long term, but would like to believe that some benefit will result from this effort. Has anybody investin gated long-term soil improvement of a woodlot? Perhaps orchard folks do it? Thanks in advance. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| I looked into growing oak or other hardwood for timber.No compost is needed or any other fertilizer. One pepper plant has one pepper on it & the fruit falls to the ground & rots. The seed come up next year, so the pepper lives on. A plant does not need many fruit or to bear bushes of fruit to keep the specie alive. We have to build- up the soil so the plant will produce many more fruit then in the wild. Wood lots do not need compost, some plants do better with less compost. Orchards are like pepper plants , oaks are not. What is the reason for building the soil? Are you going to plant shrubs under the trees? If I were you I would compost the seaweed & wood clips for my garden. I believe your compost pile should be limited only by the room & materials for composting. Check out "Coffee chaff for composting" to see what I do. |
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| A wood lot would be similar to a small forest and as long as the leaves from the trees growing there are allowed to accumulate along with whatever else grows there there should be no problems. In addition to how much mineral soil particles are in your soil that "soil structure" test shows the level of organic matter, which is the reason for doing that test in reality. |
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| It is flagrantly obvious that the same tree species will produce more wood in a fertile soil than a poor soil, other factors being equal. So importing minerals and nutrients to a poor soil will certainly improve tree growth. Is it worth the gain? I would say no. The only valid reason to spend resources importing minerals would be to produce mineral-rich food, IMO. Some soils are good enough that it wouldn't be necessary even if one was producing one's entire diet form that land; others are poor enough that a person would eventually get seriously ill without importing the minerals. |
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| Hm. Cape Cod soil typically only supports oak/pine 'scrub' which will stay @ ~15' for decades. There are pockets of better soil that support full-size trees. Our land was probably cleared before the revolution, a sheep farm until 1920's when it reverted to oak/pine scrub. So 80+ years of natural leaf accumulation hasn't done much. I would like to come up with a long-term program that will slowly improve the soil in the wooded half acre part of my lot. I'm not sure can define a 'benefit' in economic terms, but I would like to end up with better soil eventually (10+ years). Not quirte sure how to define costs and benefits, although I'd be glad to truck in and spread , say 10 yds of compost annually if i could be convinced it would make an appreciable difference. I was really hoping to find a reference to methods for slowly improving soil quality in residential wooded areas. |
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| Since your aim is to slowly improve soil quality in your wooded areas adding organic materials will certainly do that. IMO the seaweed and wood chips will make a good mulch and conserve moisture in the soil, encourage the growth of more beneficial soil organisms, and thus slowly improve the soil. I personally wouldn't 'waste' compost on an area like that but that's only my choice as I doubt there would be enough of a cost benefit. The seaweed and wood chips only require time, labor, and a small amount of gas for your vehicle so IMO the benefit, even looking at it as an experiment, is worthwhile. Can't hurt and likely will, over time, help the soil. Besides you will feel good knowing you are improving your little piece of earth and it's good exercise in the fresh air near the ocean so also a health benefit! :-D |
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| Wood chips are other trees that got shredded. I know a lot of nonsensical stuff happens constantly, but why do more? I would think that environmentally and economically it would make more sense to import rock dust, say. I'm thinking about getting a load of the stuff sold at the local mason's yard - the crushed rock that they use to lay bricks and flagstones in is cheap. Ever notice how nice and lush the grass is that grows around those walkways? |
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| I don't know as much as others on here but, isn't the seaweed going to add the trace elements needed, making the rock powders unneeded? And if you add too much rock powder isn't there alluminum and other metals in rock powders? Are they too small to cause a problem? I don't want to highjack this thread but I wondered about this stuff.Lava rock has aluminum in it too. |
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| How about wood ash? I think that spreading it around your forest would be an ideal way to deal with it. |
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| When people talk about seaweed, especially around the cape and islands of mass, often it is actually eelgrass. True seaweed is generally much more difficult to get hold of, IME. Eelgrass is not such a great thing in the garden in large amounts - it has little nutrients and takes an extremely long time to break down most especially in sandy soil. I still find pieces occasionally from years ago. I avoid it now, like I avoid wood chips and stable manure based on wood shavings. A heavy soil can tolerate stuff like that but not a light soil, not in large amounts. If one uses it habitually as a heavy mulch it ends up lingering in the ground. Real seaweed is excellent but it tends to collect in places that can't be accessed by vehicles. I suspect the commercially available products are harvested from trawlers. |
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| True, most of my seaweed is eelgrass, but let me put in a few words of defense for it: the attached link shows it to be 37% carbon with an NPK of 2.7:0.4:4, which is at the upper end of all seaweeds investigated in the article. The stuff does take its' sweet time to break down, but I've been able to get my garden OM to 9.4% (UMASS test) with NPK and micronutrients at the upper half of advisable range. I'm able to incorporate a ~6" layer applied to the garden each fall and spaded in come springtime. In short, it works for me. On top of it all, it piles up on our beach each fall and I kinda need to get rid of it regardless of the garden. I agree that rockweed decomposes much faster, but don't believe it has significantly more nutrients and NPK content than eelgrass. I'd love to see a comparison. All my wood ash goes on the veg. garden and lawn, where I use it at twice the rate recommended (in the soil test) for calcitic lime. We burn 3-4 cords/year, and that just about sufices. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Eelgrass nutrients
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| josko, you do not want fast growing trees for timber. For fire wood & shade it does not matter. Some trees will not even grow in fertile soil, the seedling will die.I was going to plant Long leaf(needle)pines on my spare land. The forest agent said my sandy soil was too loamy/ heavy for long needle pine. I now have loblolly pines.He also said to have no pines closer the 5 feet between rows & 8 feet in rows. He said to never trim limbs, it retards the growth of the tree. But you need to talk to your forest agent, he is like a soil test that walks & talks, when it comes to trees. |
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| >Does it make sense to haul seaweed and woodchips into the woodlot? Yes. >(I) would like to believe that some benefit will result from this effort. Something will come for it. >Has anybody investigated long-term soil improvement of a woodlot? Must have been done. Google is your friend. |
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| I am surprised that eelgrass is high compared to other seaweeds (is eelgrass actually a seaweed?) |
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| EELGRASS is a sea grass or a sea weed? I do not care, I will take a few truck loads with nutrients like that. josko, have fun with your trees & good luck. |
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| "A heavy soil can tolerate stuff like that but not a light soil, not in large amounts. If one uses it habitually as a heavy mulch it ends up lingering in the ground." I do wonder just how much eelgrass my garden soil can take. I've been using lots of it, and think it's done great things, but wonder if it is possible to overdo a soil amendment. You'd find bits of eelgrass in every shovelful of soil in my veggie garden, but I'm not sure that means the soil's bad. |
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| I don't think you can unless the area is very small. I pick areas of my yard throughout the year and just start dumping stuff there---seaweed, pumpkins, straw, leaves, etc.---deep layers. Then I move to another area. While it may be possible to overamend a small area, I've never seen any evidence that my yard is overamended anywhere. I guess I'd stop if I did. My vegetable garden gets at least eight inches of (loose) seaweed applied overall annually. I use it for mulch. I have used tons of seaweed in various gardens for 34 years. This year I had so much seaweed, I gave my last haul away to a friend for Christmas. Rockweed is not difficult to access here in Maine. I go to the Deer Isle causeway, drive my truck along the beach, and fill it up. Then I put bagged seaweed on top of that. I tried to singlehandedly clean up the causeway this fall, but I couldn't do it. I'm a little annoyed with myself because I buried the clover on my side yard under seaweed this past fall. Now I'm going to start beekeeping and wish I had that clover. |
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| Bees, wonderful. I have deer in my garden every year, so this year I am planting red clover for the deer an acre away from my garden. So why can't you plant some this spring? |
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| I wouldn't pass up eelgrass when its easy to get, like piled up on the beach where one can get a vehicle close. What can be problem is really putting on a lot of stuff on light soil that takes a long time to break down - stable manure that is based on wood shavings hasn't done me any favors long term, as a notable example. The eelgrass is better if its a choice between those. Regarding mulches, hay and straw are very good for breaking down nicely, IME. Straw, urine, and wood ash is a sweet combo. |
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| pnbrown, I do not see the problem with manure & shaving,or sawdust,brown leaves. I worked with a nursery man who put brown fall leaves in his garden in Oct.-Feb. & planted in April every year. I have done the same with no problems. |
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| annpat - good to see you again. I was beginning to wonder ..... good look with the new livestock. flora |
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- Posted by joepyeweed 5b IL (My Page) on Thu, Mar 3, 11 at 9:55
| A healthy oak forest would have old trees, middle age trees and baby trees. If you don't have that, I would suggest selectively thinning the canopy, to encourage the growth of baby trees and it can stimulate growth of some of the stunted trees. What gets cut down is left in place to rot and feed the growth of new and old trees. Most people aren't comfortable doing that, so you may want to consult a professional habitat specialist. |
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| Flora, I got so ashamed that I couldn't write a decent limerick, I had to leave. Flora, are you coming to Maine this summer? If you do, I'll get joepye to join us here. jolj, I bought 1/2 pound of red clover myself----to replant that which I mulched over. I actually mulched over a host of buttercup, but the clover was intermingled. |
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