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pennymca

Why I love the internet...really it's ON TOPIC

pennymca
15 years ago

Googling "bokashi" composting lead me to this article discussing BIM, or, beneficial indigenous microorganisms:

http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/200441/hamilton

Feeling teased (what? no real RECIPES?????), I googled BIM and finally found a link to the actual booklet/recipes:

http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A3=ind0307&L=sanet-mg&P=599129&E=2&B=------%3D_NextPart_000_2be4_2499_6525&N=Indigenous+Microorganisms+Boolet.doc&T=application%2Fmsword

Not only that, I ended up with VISUALS when I went to this site:

http://www.janong.com/ENGLISH/04.htm

My favorite visual on this last site was the picture of the guy sticking the rod down into the dirt...5' or so...the description of how using the different concoctions for the microorganisms, plus earthworms for tillage, makes the soil "inflate like a balloon" and you can "slide your hand in like it is cake".

I'm swooning at the thought.

The other exciting thing was reading in the first two articles about ferementing different types of plants for specific bionutrients to enhance flowering, fruiting and growth.

Perhaps there IS a use for KUDZU after all...

Comments (90)

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Penny said:

    What amount did you use?

    I used ¼ cup of molasses in ½ gallon water. The LB was in 2 (two) gallons of water in a bucket. You are going to have to trust your feelings on this one Penny; as with most things organic, looking for exact measurements are going to be frustrating (note your example).

    In your experience, how long has this taken (foam stopping)?

    About an hour depending on how hot the water was and hot warm the room was. Again, they are not going to react like things in a "cook book", we are going to defer to "it depends". You will know when it is done; the foam will start to clear on the top of the bowl.

    RJ, I'm thinking EM1 has more than just LB.

    It does, but LB is the main ingredient; the good doctor is being very vague on exactly what EM1 really is. This is why I said BIM is renegade, that man holds nothing back (although he is not very specific). The good news is that if one reads between the lines it is easy to figure out what is in EM1 (or pretty close to what is). Using the link below start at:

    "CLASSIFICATION OF SOILS BASED ON THEIR MICROBIOLOGICAL PROPERTIES"

    Read to the end of the conclusion, one should be able to put it all together from there. Also, the link Luckygal provided has a bunch of clues in it as well.

    Like I said, we are going to have to put the pieces of this "puppy" together or get busy buying some EM1. I am with the renegade (Carandang); it aint all that hard to see what he (Dr. Higa) is up too

    Blutranes

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thought I have is this. Is more really better? When making AVCT I would include 5gal rainwater, a lb or two of vermicompost and a lb or two of sifted cured compost. This year I'm also going to include BIM harvested from a nearby field(forest floor). Would adding alcohol, vinegar, yeast to this increase the benefits, or should I brew a bugjuice seperate from my normal AVCT?

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rj asked"

    Is more really better?

    No, the idea is not to use "more"; the idea is to mix. Bug Juice is ACT; once the ingredients are blended, one is to add compost (for you worm castings) and make your brew. The Bug Juice will multiply the microorganisms in the compost at a fantastic rate. Once added to the soil the juice will continue to feed the soil food web within the soil. The fermented BIM will feed/react to a different food source within the soil and feed the plant. What they have found is that combined (ACT/BIM) the reaction and fertility of the soil will be such that the plant will be in an environment of maximum fertility. All soil borne diseases will be outperformed for nutrients, the results being a healthy soil.

    The above is what EM1 really is, a mixture of fermented and aerobic microorganisms (and food stock) that will feed the plant and coexist within the soil. Fermented nutrients, nutrients fixed from the air (nitrogen), and nutrients from compost are consumed and fed to the plant. Add to that the dynamics of compost/humus added to the soil when you amend the soil results into soil that needs less amending as long as the organisms are not destroyed. Biochar offers long-term moisture and nutrient holding characteristics. This is why "Terra Preta" is such a dynamic soil; the native people discovered how to amend soil with both fermented as well as aerobic microbes, and a way to hold nutrients without the soil washing away during the rainy season.

    All this sounds like a lot of work; however, so did learning how to mix "browns and greens" with the right amount of moisture to make "hot" compost. Some still havent figured out how to do that yet

    Blutranes

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bluetranes, I understand the multiplication of microbes during the brewing process of my ACT+AVCT. My real question is would I want to add LB to my tea or use it as a seperate soil drench. I'm just wondering how the ACT reacts to the addition of the LB.

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    RJ said:

    " My real question is would I want to add LB to my tea or use it as a separate soil drench. I'm just wondering how the ACT reacts to the addition of the LB."

    Oh, sorry Rj, I misunderstood what you were saying. I have been doing both, depending on which I feel like dealing with. My logic says there is air in the soil; if LB can survive in the soil it should survive in a bucket of ACT. From the last link I provided:

    " The processes of putrefaction, fermentation, and synthesis proceed simultaneously according to the appropriate types and numbers of microorganisms that are present in the soil."

    So all this is going on at the same time; in reality this is exactly what we are looking for. And too, when I am using a "bionutrients" I am not adding ACT to the mix, however there are going to be ACT microbes active in the soil. This is what "Zymogenic and Synthetic soil is; soil that can handle both types of microorganisms.

    Your logic in wanting to not have to make two different brews for the soil is correct IMO

    Blutranes

  • valerie_ru
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Once I brewed ACT and decided to add milk there. After a day the smell of brewing was like a cake and during the spray a cake odore was all around a garden. I decided that this kind of tea can attract only children to the garden but they are not beneficial organisms in my garden. They are rather pests. So, I stopped add milk to the brewer.

    LB are used in making silage. It conserves the hay for a long time and increase nutritious quality of the grass. My opinion is that it is lacto acid that prevents grass from spoiling in anaerobic conditions when it is covered with something. The same result can be obtained using vinegar. Harmful organisms (as well as many beneficials like nitrogen-fixing bacterias) simply dont survive in acid medium. Its not good for normal soil I think. Higa writes about soils where the level of water is up to one's knees, extremly anaerobic. Did you ever seen how the rice is growing? Think about the rice fields when you think about Hidas theories. That is where they took rice grains for making BIMs!

    Summary: For the purpose of gardening, LB are good for conservation of OM (with high N) if you have a lot of it and you have no a lot of "browns" (with high C) or time to make ordinary compost. Making anaerobic compost demands special knowledge. There is a sense to learn it if you have a lot of organic wastes (and time to learn).

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Valerie, Valerie, Valerie...that link, that link, that link.

    Way too many fun things to think about there, especially the raised goat pen.

    Sigh.

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Valeria RU,

    I see you take issue with children too; we welcome children in our garden, we do not view them as organisms, but something to cherish and love. Teaching them to love nature, how to grow and protect the earth, and to take pride in knowing how to do something other than play video games or drink vodka is one of many virtues we enjoy. Children are our treasure; sorry to see you have such a low opinion of them.

    As it relates to milk, maybe you should have waited until after brewing your ACT before adding the milk to your tea. Here in the southern USA we have a terrible problem with powdery mildew, most folks can¤Ô¤±¤Í¤½ grow squash, melons, or cucumbers due to the air borne disease. Learning how to use milk to keep it at bay has been a great blessing; those who have learned how to use milk enjoy that benefit as well as the nitrogen milk provides. Again, I suppose it depends on weather you view using milk as an affront to something, we don¤Ô¤±¤Í¤½ have that problem over here.

    You may want to take another look at BIM/EM and other techniques that weren¤Ô¤±¤Í¤½ "borrowed" from other cultures. Contrary to what you have stated they do enjoy eating foods other than rice (see link below). Nor do they all wear glasses, wear funny hats, practice Kung Fu, or use carts for transportation. Indeed, they have much to offer, manners not being the least of these.

    To each his own I suppose; however, I choose to not close doors based on some preconceived notion. It makes life something to smile about�

    Blutranes

  • valerie_ru
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Blutranes,

    I have nothing against children. As for the children in the garden, they may be either beneficials or pests depending on do they under the control of adults? (Friendly, its a joke from me about children-pests. lol. We also love them no less than you or at least equally.)

    If CT is aerated then milk shall not sour. It is my fact. I brewed CT 1 day and then added milk and continued brewing 1 day more. It smell like a cake and therefore have no LB but probably have yeasts. I dont think this make CT better. Using milk separately against mildew is really good thing and we use it also, no problem with morality (we are not as poor as you may be think).

    As for EM I just stated it is good for anaerobic soils (rice fields) where organic matter has tendency to the harmful decomposition. Gas methane CH4 is released in abundance in such soils. Addition of EM (LB primarily) conserve OM from volatilization. And EM increasy acidity of the soil. May be it good for the rice and no good for other plants. But I have nothing against EM also. Someone will try and have fun.

    Keep on smiling, gravity is a sign of dementia! :)

    Vah-Larry

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Luckygal...

    I am excited to have found pictures of someone experimenting with kefir whey (could just as easily be yogurt whey) on plants. WOW, what a difference. I'm looking forward to some similar experiments here.

    This just reinforces what Blutranes has already seen with his LB brews!

  • luckygal
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh goody, more links! :-) I may never again have a life - this research is taking time. It's a fascinating subject tho and as soon as I can do some hands-on experiments I think the method will become clearer.

    Penny, I am convinced of the benefits of LA and the pics of those 2 fig plants is good evidence. I think I previously mentioned I used it for our lambs and calves and had almost no problems with scours. So I look forward to improving my soil using these methods.

    Looking forward to more info on this topic and even more links! ;-)

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Luckygal...

    I know, it is all so overwhelming to a non-scientific type like me. But, SO FUN!!!

    I decided to print out the Gil Carandang piece (and I wish I knew how to make a link out of his name so it would be easier for other readers new to this or just as overwhelmed)
    and do what I used to do in college..type out a summary of each thing "recipe" so I can understand easier.

    I've also got to dig back through those links because it seems there was something about the best time of day to apply BIM/LB (early a.m. for foliar feeds, I know) but about not even doing LB as a drench or compost spray during sunny periods so they would have a chance to "bury" down a bit and not be killed off.

    Ha, I'm reminded of the strange little man with the magic green crystals in JAMES AND THE GIANT PEACH. I have become that strange little man....oops, strange little woman.

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm wondering if LB applied to a cooking compost pile would be a bad thing? Make the greens take longer to break down? hmm...

    I was at the doc today and got an anitbiotic and a probiotic, the pro is LB! I eat lots of yogurt any way, but just thought it was interesting.

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rj said:

    "So from what I've read from all the links in this thread, LB is the same or similar to EM1?

    While looking deeper into all this I ran across this web page linked below. On the page they list all the ingredients in EM1 as well as may other links chalked full of information. Apparently EM1 is mostly LB BIM with other organisms (nitrogen fixing bacteria found in mature compost) and yeasts. It doesnt appear to be that hard to duplicate at home.

    Also, further down the page is a discussion (and links) to information concerning fermenting worm compost. Apparently India is the vermicompost capital of the world. They provide many links to sites you may be interested in. I have a worm drum with an abundant amount of liquid available for use; the insight provided is most valuable.

    I plan on posting pictures of the potatoes I planted last month that have been getting BIM as well as Bug Juice later today. I want to get some pictures of my cousins potatoes to compare to what not using organic techniques provides. This is beginning to get interesting

    Blutranes

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, lotsa links there, I'll be back in a few weeks when I get done reading, lol

    Time to get the tea brewer out, I think it may be going all summer w/ all the different Ideas I want to try. I'm thinking it might be best not to throw all of them in at once, but foliar feed w/ them and soil drench at different times.

  • luckygal
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Penny, I previously downloaded that Indigenous Microorganisms booklet and have read it a couple of times. I think I need to read some of this stuff many times to really get the full value. I've also started c&p "recipes" so I can sort thru and do what works best for me.

    My situation is that I am planning a new garden with heavy clay soil and not much else. It's an area of forest we've partially cleared where my new garden house and labyrinth will be and I want some flower beds and eventually veggie beds as well when the soil improves. Hope to use whatever animal manures and veggie compostables I can scrounge, fine wood shavings, and these fermented juices to turn this into a good growing medium. The other prime ingredient in this will be biochar as we still have some burning to do so I may as well try for charcoal as ashes.

    Can't imagine where this plan would be if I'd never heard all these good ideas from you guys! I'd probably have thot I had to haul in loads of topsoil. Much prefer this more natural "mad scientist-ish" approach. ;-)

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I keep having to go back to the links in Penny's first post, I know I've saved the .doc and emailed it to my self but this is the LB recipe. I've edited a few grammatical errors for those of us that are native English speakers.

    ''Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air. Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like a plastic pot with a lid (ice cream bucket). Allow an air gap of at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the container with lid loosely(not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container). Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when the temperature is 20-25 degrees C(68-77 F). Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour.

    Strain and simply get the liquid. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different types of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk is best. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals.

    The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amounts of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as it has been chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. 1:1 ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, to serve as food for the bacteria to keep them alive. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture.

    To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals. For bigger animals, the 2-4 tablespoons of this diluted lactic acid bacteria serum should be used without diluting it further with water. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help.''

    Can any one help me? my math is bad. The first dilution is 1:20, next four tablespoons = 1/4C = 2oz. That would make for 1/64 of a gallon. If I have a 2gal sprayer, how much would I need from the pure culture I'm keeping in the fridge?

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    1/2 cup of the 1:20 dilution in a two gal sprayer. That's what I did today, though, ahem, I might have used more the 1/2 cup.

    1/4 cup (4 T) to 1 gal non chlorinated water
    1/2 cup (8 T) tp 2 gal non cholorinated water

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I kinda meant w/ out diluting in two steps. something like 1Tbs per 2gal.

  • luckygal
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not sure if my math is correct but I think it may be 1.2 tsp. per 2 gallons. You want 1/20th of that 4 tbsp. per gallon so 12 tsp./20 = .6 tsp per gallon so 1.2 tsp per 2 gallons. Or just send me back to math class!

    Hope someone will check this, I'm still figuring out what vessels to make this stuff in. I had 40 gallons of stinky alfalfa tea brewing last year and DH is tolerant but thot it was REALLY stinky stuff! LOL

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My bad! I totally didn't read the last sentence, RJ. And my math is horrible, but I can do simple stuff. I just can't READ! Ha!

    So, you're just going to add the serum/whey straight to the water, no molasses/sugar?

    Makes sense....and I would think either 1.5tsp per 2gal would still work or 1t in a little less than 2gal..just to make measuring easier.

    Which then leads one to think of the possibility of making a small jar of a combo of the concentrated things (should one wish) for storage in the fridge.

    Hmmmmm, fingers tapping chin.....

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lol, I've heard about alfalfa tea.

    I came home and strained my rice wash and added the milk. I had 6 cups of brew, would have needed 3.75 gallons of milk, yikes! I used 2 cups skim, 2 cups powder, and 1 can evaporated, hmmm.... fingers crossed. I know it's not enough, and not sure about the stabilizers in the evaporated milk but it's done. It sure didn't smell sweet, not bad, but not sweet by any means. I hope it gets better in a week.

    I also filled the tea brewer w/ rain water, 4C sifted compost, 2C sifted vermicompost, 1/4 cup rich earth, and a little lb.

  • sunnyside1
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you, rj. And Blutranes, and pennymca and everyone else for all the posts, experiments, etc. I have printed it all out for reference.

    I feel I can now venture into this weird science a little more confidently. I'm willing to try it, because I really appreciate and see the value of the work of those who have gone before and also because I want to help myself grow the finest crops I can. In the best soil.

    Thank you, all of you.
    Sunny

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Sunny! Hope it all works out for you!

    I can't wait to see Blutranes pix of his veggies vs his cousin's non organic beds!

    On another forum on gardenweb, someone asked "WHY Gardenweb?" "Why not another site with more bells and whistles?"

    I think the answer is right here in this (among tons of other) thread(s). Questions, answers, experiments, experience,patience, and humor all shared freely, among friends. How great is that????

    Penny

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    After getting these pictures I feel kind of bad about my "hard headed" cousin and his mentality about gardening. I did offer to share some potato BIM with him and he has decided to give it a try. One good thing about pictures, they never lie. And too, to be exact, he is using "Black Cow" and some of my compost on some of his garden. However, he is admitting that he didnt use my compost on his potatoes, he did use "Black Cow". Again, we planted on the same day; I havent watered mine, he waters his just about every day.

    This is how much his has progressed:
    {{gwi:266290}}

    This is mine:
    {{gwi:266291}}

    I rest my case

    Blutranes

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the pics BT!

    The fridge at work got cleaned out and I scored almost 2 gal of milk for my LB I screened yesterday. Should get it up to the recommended amount. Also scored a bunch of other stuff for the CP.

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bluetranes..WOW, WOW, and WOW. And, why are some people just so HARD HEADED?

    I ran out of my rainwater yesterday and have just poured some whey off my yogurt and would like to try the RJ method of concentrated LB into water. (I probably have 1 T or more, or enough for 4 gallons of water.)

    Wonder if the aquasafe will mess with the LB?

    Maybe I should aquasafe the water in a 5 gal bucket and let it sit outside for a day? Hmmmmm

  • valerie_ru
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Blutranes,
    Your compost is a great thing!
    I suppose it is a compost with charcoal?

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rj,

    You are very welcome, thanks for the compliment. If it were me Rj, I would use Bug Juice on the compost; it is designed for that as well as for plants. For me, the juice has brought the smoke out of a pile quicker and longer than any other inoculants I have used. And too, the statement by the scientist that designed the juice that plants will have a "long life" is being modest IMO; I have had to pull plants with fruit still growing on them just to get them out the way. Also remember, I have never used BIM on compost, so what results you will get from using BIM is unknown to me.

    Penny said:

    " And, why are some people just so HARD HEADED?

    I dunno Penny, but you know what they say, "it makes a soft bottom" (being kind). I took my cousin 1 (one)-gallon of Potato BIM and gave him instructions on how to use it. After seeing my potatoes he just had this real funny look on his face (like he had to go to the bathroom really bad), and said "gimme some of that plant whiskey". I cant wait until I get all my watermelons in the ground; all I want is big, sweet, juicy, nutritious, tasty, and heavy watermelons. I (kinda sorta) promise I might not ask for anything more.

    Valeria RU said:

    " I suppose it is a compost with charcoal?"

    Oh yes, all my compost has charcoal in it. But, that is not compost; that is the mulch I was speaking of earlier. It is a blend of leaf mold, charcoal, and mature compost. My compost is a lot darker than that. Tiffy gave me the idea earlier this year to blend the mulch; we will see how it holds up in this intense sun.

    Again, thanks everyone. I must admit most of what I have learned about organic gardening has been obtained here on this forum, or comments made have motivated me to dig deeper and take it a step further. IMO, taking the best of the past, combining it with what we are learning today, and being open-minded enough to allow myself the privilege to think about what I have learned could only lead to the person this community has taught me to be. Thank you all very much

    Blutranes

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh my...I'm just DYING to try my bug juice but it is about five days away from being able to be used.

    For the record (and I hope I've not made a mistake), I also threw in some alfalfa and fish emulsion, along with the blood meal. It was pretty stinky, even then. I poured some of my concentrated LB in (LB+molasses)....no smell today.

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Penny,

    Needless to say your juice is going to be very concentrated with nitrogen, something to keep in mind when you are using it. As I said earlier, making alfalfa BIM is a lot more pleasing on the nose. IMO, you have not made a mistake (hard to do organically); again loading it up with nitrogen is a matter of choice (and that growth hormone in alfalfa is going to have your plants running away).

    Here is something you may be interested in; it is a site that posts moon phases (that southern thing again). Why I am sharing it is because they list what days to make and use BIM/EM as well. They just started doing this (maybe I just started noticing); something I feel may be a sign from the organic spirits. For those with an esoteric streak in them, the calendar may be a useful tool. It comes up in "German", but there is a button one can select which converts the calendar to English (near the top of the page). I use the calendar every year; it has never let me down. Yet again, for those interested, see link below.

    This thread is loaded with very good links IMO, a great deal to read and learn. Obviously I really like this kind of stuff, it keeps the neighbors running over here trying to not act "nosey", but spying for a good idea the entire time

    Blutranes

  • valerie_ru
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's a religious things, Bluetranes...

  • lisetn
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you all for the many links and info, this is a fascinating subject. I just added milk to my LB yesterday, the waiting is the hardest part.
    Could someone please post a link to the recipe for "Bug Juice"? Is it the one with ginger and garlic?
    Lise

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jumpin Jehosephat, Blutranes! What a find on that calendar!

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    More to study, more to study, more to study.

    Off to gather more grass clippings from curbside this. a.m

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lisetn asked:

    "Could someone please post a link to the recipe for "Bug Juice"?"

    Sure Lisetn, the juice was a carry over from another thread (see link below). There is no garlic or ginger in "Bug Juice", just rotten fruit and other tidbits. Thanks for your compliments and trust your interest will be well rewarded

    Blutranes

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Blutranes, one more question...and many thanks in advance.

    How much water do you use in your bug juice? I added my "kitchen concoction" part to an almost full five gallon bucket of rainwater. Do you make yours more concentrated?

    Lisetn, recipe below:

    Also, go back up to the top post and copy and paste the LONG link for the ginger/garlic concoction. It is several pages in. It is actually a fungicide and made with G/G, beer or wine and 40proof alcohol. It can be added to other stuff but it is sort of separate in its preparation.

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For someone who is impatient, you may also gather LB from the whey in yogurt. You just need PLAIN yogurt with live cultures...Dannon or Stoneyfield will work.

    1. Line a sieve with a coffee filter and place sieve over bowl or large measuring cup.

    2. Pour in yogurt and let it drain.

    3. Collect the whey and store in pure form in fridge or mix 1:1 with unsulphured molasses to store at room temp.

    4. Mix the pure whey, 1.2t to 2 gal de-chlorinated water (or rainwater or pond water or well water) (like you would use in a 2 gal pump sprayer.

    5. If using room temp whey (with molasses), double the whey/molasses proportion above. 2.4t (or just use 2.5 for ease) to 2 gal water.

    You can use the LB plain to spray on things/soil drench or mix it with other BIM/BN (bionutrients) you create.

    NOTE: The drained yogurt will either be stiff, like cream cheese (longer drain) or thicker like sour cream or pricey greek yogurt(less drain) and can be used as both. Also can be flavored any way you wish. Search yo-cheese or lebnah for some ideas.

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Penny said:

    " How much water do you use in your bug juice?"

    If I have a 5-gallon bucket of Bug Juice, that would make 50-gallons of tea. For every gallon of juice I make I add 10-gallons of water (mixed with water 10:1). Since you are just starting out you can make yours stronger (say 5:1) until you get your bugs (microbes) well established. Remember, not only is this putting microbes in your soil, it is also putting food (fertilizer) for your microbes and plants. A little goes a long way; there is no need to be greedy putting it out. And too, the juice will store well, it will ferment (just like BIM), but you will want to use even less as it gets older (50:1 or more just like BIM).

    Using a small amount takes a lot of getting used too. Especially when adding Bug Juice to a compost pile; it just doesnt seem like such a diluted amount will make that much difference. However, trust me, all these brews we are making are "very powerful" indeed. Better to use less more often, than to use more less often

    Blutranes

  • valerie_ru
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So,
    Why I love the internet?
    Hm...
    Because really it's ON TOPIC!
    "My dear, beloved from the bottom of my heart country - Russia"

  • lisetn
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the links Penny and Blutranes. I am going to start a batch of bug juice today.

  • maifleur01
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Would the calendar needed to be adjusted for local?

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Maifleur,

    A good point, and I would say yes (6-9 hours). Although it is not critical, if one wants to be more exact one could use a local almanac or other moon gardening guide. And too, if one is not interested in all the "bells and whistles" of the moon calendar a good weather forecasting program that lists moon phases (Weather Watcher comes to mind) could be used.

    There is a lot of good limited information about moon gardening out there (free), it is just a matter of searching around...

    Blutranes

  • AlchemyAcres
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm the owner of the website Bokashicomposting.com
    I'm excited about all the interest I see here.
    I'm currently working on a redesign and update of the site.
    Would you folks be interested in a forum on the site to discuss the topic?

    Thanks!

  • gjcore
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a question about this -

    ''Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air. Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like a plastic pot with a lid (ice cream bucket). Allow an air gap of at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the container with lid loosely(not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container). Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when the temperature is 20-25 degrees C(68-77 F). Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour."

    When was the rice bran added?

  • AlchemyAcres
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They're using whole grain rice...the rice wash water can contain a small amount of bran.

    ~Bokashiguy

  • AlchemyAcres
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They're using whole grain rice...the rice wash water can contain a small amount of bran.

    ~Bokashiguy

  • pennymca
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bokashiguy...

    You have a great website and great visuals. It REALLY helped me "get" the fact that I could use the whey from yogurt (or even kefir) for my lactic acid bacteria.

    Thanks!
    Penny

  • rj_hythloday
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Update on making LB

    I separated the milk from my LB yesterday. I have a colander that fits nicely in my 6gal garbage can that I use for brewing tea. I strained it once to remove most of the milk solids, they went in the compost pile. I then strained it again, w/ brown paper towels in the colander, it took a long time to drain. I ended up w/ a clear yellow (mountain dewish) sweet smelling liquid. The milk solids smelt sweet as well. The smell of the whole thing reminded me very much of a good vanilla yogurt, I may get brave and try home made yogurt one of these days.

    I used a green 2ltr bottle to store most of it in the fridge, the rest went in my 2gal sprayer (about a qt) and topped off w/ rain water, I drenched the beds, straw bales, front and back lawns w/ it as the down pour began again. I'm hoping the extra rain was enough to dilute the amount I put out.

    I need an extra fridge in the garden to hold all of my concoctions and seeds, right now they are taking up the bottom drawer.

  • blutranes
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Update on the update:

    Got my shelves together today for where I am going to store my brews. I am trusting that as I empty one container another batch will be ready. I am finding that the word is spreading about my "plant whiskey" around town. My cousin is going through the stuff (tea) like he has his own brewery; but I must admit his garden is looking 100% better save his lack of compost on the soil in some areas.

    The important thing is that all the teas I need are ready, the only thing missing is getting the plants in the ground (we will start on the 10th of next month). Anyway, here are some pictures of my storage shed with the brews in place. I love my brews and I love my BlackBerry!

    {{gwi:266292}}

    {{gwi:266293}}

    Ummmthe gin is for my "Ginger/Garlic" extract brew. Nice having a lil brown jug too

    Blutranes

  • lisetn
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I added molasses to my LB today and sprayed my garden spot and compost bin. I wonder how long it will take to see some action in the garden, there are not many earthworms, hoping to fix that. I also have bug juice cooking.
    Cool pics Blutranes, please keep us updated. I am especially interested in the Garlic/Ginger stuff. I had an awful aphid and white fly problem last year.