Thank you, John. It does get confusing when the "science" of it tells one that years of practical experience is somewhat lacking.

I admit I enjoy the science of it, and I take from research and from this forum and its knowledgeable posters willing to share, what information I can use. But when the rubber hits the road, I still produce my own compost by piling up a mix of readily accessible ingredients - not really experiencing any angst if the ratio is a little off or if the worm count isn't up to anyone else's standards. From December to April, I'm reluctant to trudge through several feet of snow to turn the pile or to hope against hope it's somehow hot in the middle.

It all works - I have (biased) a good looking lawn, healthy trees and shrubs, prolific perennial gardens... and yet like you, John, composting practices that don't pass the scientific litmus test. Go figure.

hey jbets,

go to it hey? your way is working for you same as my way is working for me and the rest just simply don't count. all my composting and vermicomposting happens right in/on the garden beds right where it is needed nothing lost and everything gained.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: len's garden page

If you dont like one experts opinion, Im sure there's others who share YOUR opinions, thats the beauty of opinions, they're fluid~

Dorisl, most of the information is more than just opinion. There is a lot of published technical data that supports there claims.


John

It's pretty easy to obtain any amount of technical data to support virtually any claim. That's one of the biggest drawbacks (as well as one of the biggest assets) of the Internet :-) On the otherside of the coin, consider Mother Nature - she reads none of the books, supports no specific school of technical experts and has been composting for eons, with pretty much unlimited success. There are differences to be made between the natural environment and a cultivated garden, but if you follow the examples established in nature (avoiding chemicals, minimal/no tilling, leaving OM in place, encouraging biodiversity, etc.) it's hard to go too far wrong. Backyard composting is a contrived process that is intended to accelerate the natural decompostion of organic matter. The "books and sources" and all the technical "experts" are just offering their take on how best to achieve that. There is no right or wrong way - only the way that works best for you.

Sometimes I think we tend to overly complicate what is essentially a very simple process. It may often be best to avoid reading too much and rely more on common sense and our powers of observation to show us the way.

"IALBTC." -- Prof. Dirt.

If it works for you and you're happy with your methods and the results John, it sounds good to me. :)

All the best,
-Patrick

John,

You are so right! There needs to be a whole new word for unconfused composting. The best my colleages and I could come up with is Compost Gardening.

Please keep sharing your cut-to-the-chase composting methods that have worked for you here, and maybe at our website, too.

I think much of the confusion is rooted in fundamental differences between commercial and home composting. Trusted home methods developed by gardeners like you define home composting. The heat-it-up fast method (necessary in commercial waste-disposal applications) does have a place in one's composting repertoire -- like when you have a weed seed problem on your hands -- but cold composting methods -- and there are a lot of them -- work better at home.

You made my day.

Here is a link that might be useful: my website

Well John, the only thing I can sat is that your gardens must have forgotten to read the books.

Sounds to me like you should stick with what you know. If it aint broke.......don't fix it

First you need to know something about the "expert" and how this person came to the conclusions they did to know whether the information they are providing is valid for you. There are people giving advice about composting that have never made a compost pile, there are some people giving advice about gardening that have never gardened, those people usually, eventually give themselves away. But there are some that have tried to make compost and garden but because they have only done a little have not gotten the results others that have done it right and so they do not get the same results without spending large numbers of dollars on "fertilizers", pesticides, and herbicides and are then convinced these are necessary. Not because organic gardening does not work, but because they have not committeded to it.

Most of the "how to" information pertains to those who want to hot compost, and produce more of it in a shorter period of time. Most sources I've seen, though, include mention of "if you're not in a hurry, throw it in a pile and it will rot eventually" methods of cold passive composting, too.

And then there's the fact that many who hot compost see it as a challenge, I think, and enjoy the process. We like to flip the compost, monitor the temperature and progress. It provides a certain satisfaction as a hobby.

I hate cold weather, and don't go anywhere near my compost all winter. I put it to sleep around November with the last garden debris and fall pumpkins. Yesterday, our first warm day of the season, I got out there and flipped the bin. It smelled wonderful- I wanted to burrow in there and stay. Now, as the weather warms, I'll get back into composting gear. I just like to do it, and that's why I do it.

If your method works for you and you're happy doing it your way, that's great. Keep it up. We all do what we can do or want to do.

Karen

This is my first post, but reading this one makes it seem worth while to necro this post.

One thing I try to remember when I read about all the different methods is this, nature has done this for billions of years without my help. If I compost too slowly, use too much water, don't space my plants right, etc, nature will help things along. If things go horribly, scary wrong, I'll try something else next year. I'm not going to get worried about the fact that I get different advise in different places, I just figure the more I know the more I can figure out what's right for me. Me turning down advise is something you probably will never see, although I may not use the advise, I hardly thing a better understanding of what has/hasn't worked will hurt me in any way.

If one person says to adding water to my plants every day is nessissary and another person says every other day works fine for him, then I elect to go with every day, then I miss one, I know that it's probably not going to cause any problems.

So if one person says turn your compost weekly, and somebody else says never, and you do it monthly, who's right?

(The point I'm trying to make is you are, because you are doing what's right for you. The others are doing what's right for them. Years down the road you may switch to a hands off approach and you'll know that not turning it is OK too, just a little slower. Don't we all slow down with age?)

Gardeningduke,

Your words are wise and well accepted by this organic gardener. The only right way to garden is the way one gardens. This forum is here for those who are not satisfied with their results, or are not sure where to being or how to begin. The ego gets in the way when some want their way to be acknowledged as the "best" way, and there is no such thing. Better to express what works for me, and maybe it may work for you...

Blutranes

"The options available to you are many. Hot compost, cold compost, leaf mold, Interbay Mulch. Many roads to the same end result, which is well rotted, rich organic material to enhance and feed the soil. "

This info in the Gardenweb Compost FAQ. Seems a rather open point of view to me.

In general, plants want to grow, and they're good at it. Barring something terrible, you'll get a crop, and it might be great.

Mostly, I use GardenWeb when that "something terrible" happens, where my environment isn't up to snuff or needs correction, or when the geek in me wants to try and eke the absolute maximum out of the plants and soil.

I think of the soil forum as the equivalent of car modding groups you can find at other sites. Your vehicle will get you to work just fine without a chromatographic analysis of the exhaust or knowing it's dynamometer readings, re-boring the pistons or a high-end exhaust. But you'll never know if you're pulling 100% out of it unless you put in the effort. If pulling 100% out of your car isn't something that gets your juices flowing, then feel free to ignore the freaks until you want to know what that new clunking sound is when you change gears.

Personally, I'm not an Olympic-class gardener, but I do love seeing them at work, and would like to be one sometime in the next decade. You, on the other hand, might just enjoy the garden and it's fruits at it's most simple level, and there's nothing wrong with that.

P.S. Please note that I don't know anything about high-performance cars and made all that gobbledygook up. :)

Your method seems to be based on your empirical observations. That is part of the scientific method even if it doesn't seem so fancy when you are doing it.

It is true that experts and pamphlets are always going on about layers of brown and green of particular depth, and wetting and turning the pile, Probably they are thinking they should start newbies out composting according to best practice, without the experts realizing that they make it sound so complicated that it might stop people from even trying.

A health and fitness magazine I used to get had a small article about composting. They made the whole layering/turning/wetting business sound mandatory. I wrote a letter to them explaining that if you throw whatever you have in a pile, it will rot, and those other things are optional. They printed the letter, but who knows how many people had already thought, "Oh, composting is too hard."

John, you say that you leave the greens and browns pile up separately. The fact that they compost faster than predicted is probably because they are doing some composting while they are waiting to be mixed together, also because you shred them. Smaller items compost faster.

As for quantity applied, well, most people don't have that much, so they don't say to use that much. I garden mostly in lasagna beds that are quite deep with compost, and almost everyone agrees that this will work fine. As for turning, that can help the process, but I think most of us know that is optional. So really no conflict with composting theory per se, you just don't follow the 'best practice' possible for fastest, hottest composting. So what, sounds like you are doing great. (You must have one heck of a shredder to shred that much material!)

Marcia

Hi All,

One thing I enjoy is reading about experienced composters or gardeners for that matter take everything in stride and seem not to be anxious about anything. It is like reading Zen and the Art of Compost Pile Maintenance. Give it time grasshopper. Very relaxing to us beginners. Thank you for all your aloha. Excuse me I have to go turn my piles.