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Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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Posted by
isixpacku MD (
My Page) on
Thu, Apr 12, 12 at 0:38
| I had a load delivered this morning of mushroom soil. At the time I didn't know about fresh and aged soil and just assumed that it would be like the aged stuff I have purchased at the hardware store in the past. This mushroom soil is steaming hot and has a strong smell to it.
After doing a lot of reading today it seems as though this must be fresh mushroom soil. I have a large vegetable and flower bed that I am putting in in my backyard. I covered this new bed with about 2-3" of the mushroom soil and have started to work it in about 6-8" down. My soil is heavily clay in some places and I thought this would help with the soil structure.
I had planned on planting vegetables and flowers in the bed and then mulching it with more of the mushroom soil. However since this is fresh soil, I am not sure this is the best idea. Do you think I should be able to do this without burning up my plants if I keep the mulch a little bit away from the new plants?
Also I planned on top dressing part of my lawn with the soil. From what I have read though it seems as though it might be better to pile up the rest of mushroom soil in my backyard, add some compost tea, and let the soil age until the fall before I use it on my lawn. If I do this, how do I keep weeds from germinating in the pile? Is there a certain frequency with which I should turn it over? I hadn't planned on covering the pile and the pile will probably be around 5 cubic yards. I have never had a compost pile before and I am not exactly sure what I am doing. I know Mother Nature will always eventually take its course but I would like to help her as much as possible with as little effort as possible. Any input you can provide would be very much appreciated.
Besides learning about the risks of pesticides, potential for high salt levels, and the disputed lack of active organisms in mushroom soil, my greatest lesson learned today was to ask a lot more questions before buying anything!
Thanks for your help.
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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i am not sure about what is meant by "aged" or "fresh" mushroom soil since that media is mixed, allowed to heat up, spread on the raising beds where it is further heated by steam, innoculated withe the spores that will produce the mushrooms and once they are harvested is cleaned off to be recylced as Spent Mushroom Soil. Fresh may mean right off the beds and aged may mean it sat around a while. SMS is a good soil aendment, in moderation, but not a growing medium. There is a lot of information, as well as misinformation, about SMS out there. |
Here is a link that might be useful: About Mushroom Soil
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| I always heard it called mushroom compost, but in any case I don't for sure what you have there. Has it been used for growing mushrooms, or is it a mix of fresh manure and other stuff that is in the composting stage before it can be used to grow mushrooms? Anyway if it's steaming hot, it's going to be risky as a soil amendment and mulch. I would go easy with it. It might not take all summer for the pile to finish and cool off though. You can always ask whoever you got it from for advice on how to use it and what stage it's actually at in the process. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| The more technical term is Spent Mushroom Substrate. Do some reading on that subject. I use it to hill potatoes and then dig it in the next spring after adding addtional nitrogen in the form of alfalfa pellets. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Spent Mushroom Substrate
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| Nice info page bluegoat. I cannot figure why this stuff would be hot? If it's spent, i.e. already used for growing mushrooms, any composting process would already be done. Why is it steaming? |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| The reason SMS heats up is because it has not been composted. It still contains a lot of carbon that is being consumed by micro-organisms. The heat from that is fine for growing mushrooms but not for herbaceous plants. It is spent as far as mushroom production is concerned. I once brought home a 1/2-ton of SMS and put it a compost bin for storage. In less than a week the temperature had gone to 120F and mushrooms were appearing on the surface. Unless you know the quality of the SMS you bring home, I would only use it as a mulch or compost it further until it's stable. The stuff I have access to is a good source of "browns" if I run out of leaves. At $5 for a small 1/2-ton load, it's reasonably priced. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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Spent Mushroom Soil or Spent Mushroom Substrate are the same terms. Whether one is more corrector then the other is a matter of semantics. if SMS is steaming, or hot that means someone has added some Nitrogen to the mix, for some unknown reason. By the time this stuff is ready to be sold as SMS, after the mushrooms have grown and been harvested, in a low N environment, there should not be enough N left to get the bacteria working on digesting the stuff fast enough to generate large amounts of heat. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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I have bought a lot of SMS direct from the growers (20 yards at a time)and have never found any that was completely composted. They do not add more N before they sell it as this would only add additional cost them that would not be necessary. Placed on top of soil is moderate amounts it usually does not burn the plants. I age the media first to complete the composting process. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| Interesting, I learned something new about mushroom compost. I've never used any but a friend of mine did once, so I think it's available around here somewhere. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| I have a bunch of mushrooms growing up against the fence some ways away from my pile. Can I use the soil under those mushrooms? Or is it a specific type of shroom? Can I use the shrooms for compost? Or is it just the soil underneath them? |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| SMS is the growing media for commercial mushroom production. Not at all the same mushrooms as one finds growing naturally in the garden. Many of these are harmelss types of fungi; others much less harmless. I'm not sure I'd avocate either the use of these 'shrooms or the soil they're growing in as a compost ingredient unless I was a) sure of the type and know they are not some sort of harmful being (like armilleria) or b) had a very hot home composting operation. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| $5 for 1/2 ton, wish I could get that. Spent Mushroom Soil or Spent Mushroom Substrate are the same terms. Whether one is more corrector then the other is a matter of semantics. Like structure and texture eh? |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| $5 for a small 1/2-ton load is cheap but during the gardener appreciation week in May it's free. Anyone is allowed to load up as much as you want and as many loads you want for free. You have to shovel it yourself but then that's good exercise. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| again terminology seems to be confounding things, straight from the farm it is either spent mushroom growing medium, or mushroom compost nothing at all related to dirt or soil. it can be purchased in a blended form where other material like manures etc have been added, this closely resemble humus not yet at the soil naming stage. yes fresh mushroom compost is hot as it has not yet decomposed, we use it in the fresh state and plant in it almost straight away, keeping seedlings well watered and unmulched so the heat does no damage, generally about 2 weeks later all heat has gone so we can then start using mulch. currently local prices pick up are $5AUD per 1tonne bag, they no longer seem to use those smaller plastic bags any more. would suggest just lay it around existing plants leaving about 6" clearance, then in a few days mulch over it, we do no digging so we don't support the digging effort. len |
Here is a link that might be useful: lens straw bale garden
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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If the "mushroom soil" you purchase generates any heat it is like unfinished compost, not ready to use for growing mushrooms or in your garden. If the material has been mixed but no mushrooms have been grown in it that would be compost, not mushroom anything. Once mushrooms grow in that material it becomes Spent Mushroom Compost, Spent Mushroom Substrate, and it will be cool, never even warm, because mushrooms do not grow in warm growing media. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| kimmsr, The SMS I buy has been used and I can guarantee that is is not completely decomposed. It does not generate heat while in the mushroom growing stage.I think the reason for this is that before it is used for growing mushrooms it is steamed/sterilized. All the microbes are killed off. The only thing left in it to grow is the mushrooms. The other thing is that the media, while growing mushrooms is not very thick and the ambient tempeture around it would also tent to keep it cool. After it is used and discarded into piles somehow enough microbes get into it to generate a heck of a lot of heat and start the decomposition process over. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| kimmsr, all i can say is the stuff we buy from the mushroom farm is spent mushroom compost although mushrooms often do still grow once it is in the garden this is a culinary bonus of course, but it does get hot and generally takes a couple weeks to cool, but we do plant into it right away introducing a couple of hand fulls of growing material to create a growing spot for the new seedlings. yes it is unfinished but we use it, and it is mushroom compost. len |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| regarding blazeaglory's question about toxicity of mushrooms or soil they grew in: I don't see any reason not to compost mushrooms that grow in the yard, or any reason the soil they grew in would be harmful. There are all kinds of plants and fungi that grow in and around the gardens that you should not eat, but they don't poison the ground, the compost or your vegetables. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| Does anyone know a good source for SMS in the lower/middle Bucks County area? Free would be great - but not essential. |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| Err, pardon me for asking, but should we assume Bucks County is in the United States, and if so, which one? :-] |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| Tox is right on the random yard shrooms. I've been an avid hunter of wild mushrooms for years. One should never consume mushrooms they are unsure of. However they will not affect compost, soil, or vegetables in an adverse way. Kimmsr I'm confused as to how the sms would be compost if no shrooms have been grown in it, yet somehow be unfinished compost after growing mushrooms. Does growing mushrooms in it turn back time? |
RE: Fresh mushroom soil, now what?
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| No, but ingesting certain kinds can make it seem that way. |
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