EVERYBODY PEES ON THE COMPOST. What is the effect of direct human urination on a compost pile of grass clippings? Yay or Nay? Please leave any comments regarding the grossness/socially uncouth notions of this situation aside.

Thank You.

a lot of poeple do not make a big fuss about the proper ratio, they just mix until it heats up the way they like it.

why don't you try mixing the grass clippings into a larger amount of shredded dead leaves, staw, or even sawdust.

As for the morals....you're recycling, saving water, lightening septic stress, and helping your yard or garden out all in the same by using urine.
one word of advice.....if you make a hot compost pile out of urine, make sure your friend doesn't try to touch it after you tell him about how warm the pile gets......(yes my friend came over and almost did, i was like whoa whoa!!!)
I pee in a bottle that I keep in a room which i have seedlings started in, and the next day i take it outside and pour it into the center of my pile, the thing i like about using pee is that you're also helping to keep the pile moist as you add nitrogen, and it does work.

Today's brainstorm; I have a 40 gal. tub sunk into the ground for the ducks to take a dip in. They 'fertilize' the water and algae starts to grow. It finally occurred to me that the algae makes an ideal 'green' for compost.

And, when everyone is doing it like in past times volume, I can see public health issues. A few into compost piles, I suppose gets up into the odds of winning the lottery, to the extent a possibility exists?

Millions of cats, dogs do it outside, but a human here or there on a compost pile really matter?

Honestly, doesn't most of the reluctance about it just have more to do with mental concepts than public health?

and even if i knew i was in perfect health, i probably wouldn't use in urine made compost in crops. i plan to use it on ornamentals.

We haven't used the indoor facilities to dispose of urine for five years now, and our wild rose hedge and other perennials are widely admired.

E. Coli maybe? On the human anatomy, the involved anatomical structures are in pretty close proximity. Moist structurs, close together, Stuffed into underwear which will move at least slightly...

So no, I don't use urine in my garden. If you are doing so, I think it should certainly be used in the hottest spot of the compost pile, in the middle.

Like Kimmsr, I use modern plumbing and plan to continue to do so.

Karen

For all the people who say "Eeeeewww!", just keep in mind that septic and sewer systems are mostly 'eyewash'. The fact that a couple of gallons of good clean drinking water are used to flush away half a cup of urine so it's out of your sight and out of your mind isn't exactly being environmentally responsible.

All that nitrogen that is produce doesn't just evaporate, you know. Like DDT, it all goes somewhere, either into the groundwater or into the ocean. Have you ever gone down to your favorite little creek and wondered where all that green algae came from? Have you passed by the marsh on your way to the ocean and it didn't smell so great and had quite a lot of algae growing there? Between 'modern' farming methods and 'modern' waste dumping, we're contaminating a lot of the world.

Sue

Urine has the same level of salinity as seawater. It doesn't seem like a good idea to pour seawater with some N into the compost or garden. This is especially true since there are plenty of good sources of N that don't have high levels of salt.

Some plants may tolerate the higher salt levels but others may not. From what folks are saying it looks like some roses in some soils may be OK with it.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ;),

a pile of grass clippings is NOT a compost pile. It is just a pile of grass clippings. As explained above it lacks any carbons to make it a compost pile so to answer your question - the effect of adding more nitrogen to it, in any form, is pointless.

First, make it a compost pile and THEN you can debate the pros and cons of adding various liquid ingredients to it.

Dave

As I said above, the only way to obtain a sterile urine specimen is sterile catheterization of the bladder or clean catch technique. I doubt that most of you are following these techniques in obtaining urine for your compost or garden.

Karen

Urine is high in nitrogen, and is a strong green. Many people use diluted urine directly in the garden rather than in the compost. Either way, its a great way to save water (by not flushing the toilet) and fertilizing plants for free.

Joepye: ideally urine is sterile, but in many cases it's not, as noted in my link above. If it accumulates in the body for a while, it will grow bacteria. This could be due to that small stone in one of your kidneys that you have had for years, it just hasn't moved or grown enough to give you symptoms yet. Or if your bladder is somewhat hopotonic, and you feel the urge a little later than optimal, urine stasis results and bacteria grow while still inside your body.

Everybody does what the want in their own practices and composting. But with my medical and strong science background, I know I won't to do these things. You owe it to yourself and your family to make informed choices.

Karen

Blutranes

The use of urine in compost or gardening is not going to change the amount of the bacteria we have in our environment.

You cannot be sure of any of those things, but does that mean that you should perform deliberate acts to spread infection? I don't think so.

I work in the OR, as, of course, do all of my colleagues. I'm pretty sure that we all wash our hands much more than necessary. It is patients who walk in with obvious infections, known MRSA... trust me, we scrub our hands. A lot. With bacteriocidal agents and brushes.

To afford yourself some extra protection in a public bathroom: Turn on water and wash your hands. Dry on paper towels. If you have to "pump" out towels, do so before turning on water. Only after finishing washing and drying hands, use that paper towel to turn off water and turn the doorknob to exit. Then dispose of the towel. Foolproof? No. Helpful? Probably so.

Are you saying that you shouldn't bother to wash your hands after using the bathroom? Or teach your kids this? Because someone else doesn't do it?

Look, you will do what you care to do. I am only saying that maybe some folks need to read up a bit on the possible problems before recommending the widespread practice of peeing in one's compost or yard. Chances are good that it will never cause a problem to you. But if you kid got seriously ill or worse as a result, or someone else's kid did, just imagine.

Blutranes contracted Legionaire's disease last year by messing with compost material. It wasn't urine, but still, it was compost material. We all do this daily without a thought, but it doesn't mean that it can't make us sick. I'm only saying why increase that risk if I don't have to.

Karen

Compost it well and there shouldnt be an issue.

my brother grows the most beautiful blue hydangeas. i asked for a cutting to have those electric blue beauties in my garden. he told me that the secret was to pee on them. i coddled those babes and they grew and grew and grew -- 4ft x4ft in the first year. and yes they were and are year after year gorgeous. but mine are the most vibrant shade of pink. is that because i'm a girl? is boy and girl pee that different?

I see that you are in the PNW. When visiting that area a few years ago I saw the most gorgeous blue hydrangeas that I have ever seen. I remember entire hillsides of them, I think that was along the road to the Quinalt Rain Forest, but I couldn't swear to it.

In my area, soil is alkaline and hydrangeas are pink.

Karen

Urine contains large amounts of urea, an excellent source of nitrogen for plants. You can buy urea, but why would you when you have an unending free supply at home?

Peeing on a compost pile makes sense if the pile needs to be watered. Grass clippings make a slimy mess all on their own - peeing on them would make them slimier.

Karen, I respect your training and experience, but I feel safer in the bacterial free-for-all that is the natural world outside my door than I would in the 'sterile' environment of a hospital, where resistant bacteria are becoming more and more common - recent outbreaks of C. difficile in Canadian and other hospitals, for example, are alarming. There's a good body of evidence to support the theory that anti-bacterial cleaners promote the development of resistant bacteria.

And I'd be worried if this conversation about using urine were taking place in industrial England, or medieval times, with urban overcrowding, open sewers, etc., but it's not.

Whether you should dilute urine before applying it to the soil depends on your soil and climate. We have sandy soil and lots of rain and overcast, so I don't worry about diluting it except in the dry heat of summer.

Somebody mentioned the salt in urine and that's something else to bear in mind. Our wild rose hedge is naturally salt tolerant. According to the website below, some crops are salt-sensitive - carrots, beans, onions, strawberries - and some are tolerant - some say asparagus even thrives on salt.

mrclint, 'saving a flush' is no big deal? In SoCal? I thought your part of the country was so desperate for water it was ready to requisition large quantities from British Columbia.

I feel another gardenweb warning coming on.... :)

As far as adding it to a grass cliping pile, I much prefer to add it directly to my plants. Putting it in grass or compost is wasting the effects of waste. Can you do that, waste waste? Don't think it is high in nitrogen? Pee in the same spot for a few days and see what happens.

It gulls me to waste 2.5 gal of water to flush my pee. ( live in an old house) I'm not without conscience though. I stop for 2-3 weeks before working on a bed, and keep it to ornimentals. Lucky for me I have an acre of gardens in which to spread the wealth around.

Germs be damned.

I don't pee on my compost, but I may give it a try next time I am short on greens.

However, I am well aware that handling anything like compost that is full of bacteria can be hazardous. I think it is an excellent idea to wear gloves whenever handling compost, worm castings or soil and to wash hands thoroughly, with a nail brush, whenever coming in from the garden and especially before eating.

"And, we must note here [following precautions against composting manures from carnivorous animals] that urine is much cleaner than manure, microbially speaking, so we will not deny those so inclined the occasional deposit of personal liquid nitrogen in their compost piles."

Now, fellas, you know that too much smells bad, right? Hope I can say that without hurting your feelings.
Barbara Pleasant

Do you have blood in your urine? How do you know you don't?
Most women during their cycles have blood cells in their urine, honest they do. Under the best of circumstances you have healthy urine. But unless you have had it tested very recently, (today) you don't know. Nor have most people ever been tested for HIV, hepatitis, or any blood borne disease.

As kimmsr pointed out, there are reasons for public health laws that govern human waste disposal. Someone mentioned that it might have been a concern in the Middle Ages...... can't you see that today, in the age of superbugs it is much more of a concern that it ever could have been in the past?

I said I'd shut up and I'll stick to that. Obviously you guys are going to pee wherever you care to. Your minds are already closed to any thought which doesn't agree with your own. I will continue to use modern plumbing to go to the bathroom and scrub my hands with a brush. And I'll call my broker and tell him to get me more pharmaceutical stocks now.

Karen

If you are assuming that if you keep manure and urine out of the compost and garden entirely, your garden will be bacteria-free. Sorry, but no.

E. coli ALONE is everywhere in our environment. We're exposed to it all the time. Just keep in mind that all E. coli are not the same. The one in the news is E. coli O157:H7. Most of it has come from the intestines of infected cattle, and is transferred to meat apparently from sloppy butchering practices (when the guts are perforated during butchering and the contents get on the surface of the meat). I believe that every known case of O157:H7 from meat came from ground beef. The sewage-contaminated meat surface was ground up and mixed together and sold as food. There have been a few other instances of contamination, but the vast majority has been from meat.

Getting back to bacteria (practically poetry!), when all is said and done, without bacteria, there is no US. We are dependent on bacteria. It is the bacteria and fungi in the soil that break down plant debris to feed it back to new plants so we can have food to eat. It is bacteria that breaks down dead animals by the side of the road.

Sure, you want to take care with bacteria. You work in the dirt and you wash your hands before you do anything else. You don't want to put uncomposted manure directly around plants that might get it splashed on the leaves and the leaves get eaten (one tiny bit you missed when washing, etc). Plants like lettuces, spinach, strawberries, etc, come to mind. I was just reading that most bacteria are found in bruises and damaged parts.

Wash your hands. Wash your food that comes from underground or near the surface of the soil. Be careful, but don't get crazy. You have other things to worry about.

Complete pathogen destruction is guaranteed by arriving at a temperature of 62C (143.6F) for one hour, 50C (122F) for one day, 46C (114.8F) for one week or 43C (109.4F) for one month.

If you're making compost, you do have to turn the pile to get most of these temperatures. It has to get to 150F EVERYWHERE in the pile, not the just middle. You'll have to scrape off the outside and over it with the stuff that was inside. You should probably turn it several times to get all the material up to a killing temperature. You can't just make a pile, let it sit, and have everything in it come to 150. Even compost isn't that easy. (sigh)

p.s. My sister works at a hospital, and she says the general consensus is that the worst non-handwashing offenders are doctors.

Sue

Geez, can you be any more arrogant and condescending?

Since you brought up your "medical and strong science background", why don't you share your qualifications with us?

Compost piles and humans are different. The billions of microbes in my body would not survive in my compost pile and vice versa. We are exposed to microbes daily and have a symbiotic relationship with them as well as ever other creature on this planet. The use of antibiotics to create superbugs can not be compared with a compost pile.

If you are uncomfortable using urine in your cultural practices than don't. I use urine to generate hot compost piles and would advise others to do so as well (within reason).

Stepping off my soapbox now.

If a stranger came along and threw anything in my compost, I wouldn't like it.

But if I dripped a few drops of my own blood in my compost, I wouldn't care one bit. In fact, that may have happened. I would, however, take care not to let any cut get infected and I would also stay away from compost if I had a deep cut on my hands or lower arms.

If you don’t want pee in your compost, then don’t pee in your compost. There is no need to throw bizarre hypotheticals about. If you want to get concerned about health issues on private property, then worry about dog-poo, which is much more common.

And for Christ’s sake, as mauirose said, HIV won’t survive outside of a human host for long. Your willingness to promote paranoia on that subject, being of a medical background, is disturbing. And your condescension is not appreciated.

I'm now fully on board with the Martha Stewartization of America. Everything has to be used at least 10 different ways before it gets thrown away, and everything always has multiple uses. Someone, please post the link for that festive holiday centerpiece sleigh made from the leftover turkey carcass.

Those that don't pee in their compost are simply germaphobes, evil water-wasters, and most certainly anything but thoughtful. These evil people probably use more than one square of toilet paper at a time as well. I'm glad I'm no longer one of these dupes.

It feels so good to be with the majority now. Thank you all so much for showing me the light!

Composting humanure safely demands forethought and care and reading the Humanure Handbook is a good idea. By comparison disposing of urine safely seems a piece of cake, especially after reading that book.

About blood, I like to repeat (but only on this forum - who else would understand?) the story of my wife dumping a bucket of p*ss and monthly blood around the rose hedge just as the mailman drove up. Next time she saw him he didn't seem traumatized, so she figures he didn't clue in. She likes to say, Imagine paying money for a box of bloodmeal.

I agree with you, Karen, that I would have qualms about eating somebody else's produce knowing they'd fertilized it with their urine or humanure. But they're aesthetic qualms, I think, and not hypocritical.

I put the following things in my compost bin (by far not the ONLY things that go in)

Weeds, that have probably been peed on at one time or another by the dog

Chicken poop covered straw from the chicken coop

Rabbit poop and shredded paper soaked in rabbit urine, graciously given by my rabbits

Horse poop from the horse down the road, occasionally

With the above things that MANY people put in their compost AND farmers use that grow the food at the stores, I don't think that MY urine is going to be what does me in.

Also, if anyone is concerned with E.Coli and the like just stop peeing in the pile 120 days prior to using it. This is the same standard used in farming in regards to manure applications. E.coli and the like only sustain in the soil for 90 days or less, hence the rule about no applications after 120 days prior to harvest.

Basically, the veggies at the store were grown in pooped on and peed in soil too.

Wow, who wizzed in your cheerios this morning?

If your comfortable peeing in your compost pile, no big deal go for it. if you dont like it or don't think its safe, don't. Personally wasting 2.5 gallons a flush X 4 times a day X 2 people equals 600 gallons a month of drinking water wasted.

Frankly there are alot worse diseases you can catch from animal manures and soil than you can catch from your own urine. Notice I said "your" I wouldn't want my neighbor peeing in my compost! My germs only at my house!

Ya see, personal attacks do work. I'm ready to throw back to the "golden days." Early man and native peoples didn't need to flush anything, shower or even brush their teeth. And all the lush green lawns, golf courses, and ball fields of the modern age -- well that's all just a lot of water going right down the drain. After all there's only so much water to be had, there isn't any more being made and when it's all gone we'll all be in deep, deep wee wee. Just imagine all the water that pours fight off the edge of the earth (with it being flat and all)!

"The planet has a fever." -- Al Gore

True! Which is why many of them are converting to artifical turf.

Did we cover the middle ground? These smarty-pants types are going to want to know more of the finer points of compost wetting. Things like, do we perform our alchemy every time we "have to go" or do we do it when it is called for? Or right after reading the water and power bill? When is compost wetting called for? When does one know if they've applied too much or too little? Is it still OK to get started with this if I'm not the lone toothless inhabitant on a 40 acre stretch of land? If a person is on a medication or takes a painkiller that day is it still OK to wet your compost? These people can be so naggy, and something we say may lead to more questions and our topic will just get longer. We do not want to upset the official topic ender when they have put their foot down.

It's much more fun for me to just do stuff that I don't have to think about, and if there are more than one or two "rules" to follow (or things to consider) it will make it a lot less fun for me. :)

IMO worrying about pee in a compost pile is comparable to worrying about getting West Nile virus from a mosquito or being struck by lightning. Is there a possibility, however remote, that you might be infected with something awful from the bacteria in the compost pile? Maybe so, but then there are probably a million other unlikely ways to catch a bug.

I worry about much more likely threats - Lyme disease, car accidents, tooth infections...things that are hundreds or thousands of times more likely to happen, and are equally threatening to one's health.

I make fabulous compost. It is very satisfying

I wanted to point out that the salt content of seawater is approx. 7% w/v IIRC. The salinity of the human body ('normal saline') is 0.9% IIRC. I was not able to find the salinity of 'average' urine, but I can't believe it's as high as seawater - that would be 10 times more concentrated than the average in the body.

Unless you're doing it all in one place for a long time, it's unlikely there will be negative effects from the salt.

A teaspoon of salt weighs 6000mg, and 2300mg of that is sodium.

The official normal range for 24hr urine sodium is 40-220mEq/day. That's about 1-5 grams of sodium, or about 1/2-2 teaspoons of salt. Those of us who sweat a lot in our gardens will be on the lower 1/2 teaspoon level, and if we weigh about 160 pounds we'll put that out in at least 3 1/2 liters, or about 1 gallon.

A gallon of urine will have, on average for a summer gardener, 1/2 teaspoon's worth of salt.

Normal saline is 9gm (1 1/2 tsp)of salt in a liter, or about 31gms (~5 teaspoons) in a gallon. If toxcrusader is correct, then seawater would be 70gm (~12teaspoons) of salt in a liter, or 245gm (~40 teaspoons)in a gallon.

I think I figured this correctly, but I'm not a sharp as I used to be. (I used to be really, really sharp.)

About seawater: since asparagus is very salt-tolerant - some say it is even salt-loving - I'm planning to fertilize one patch of it with pure seawater, see what happens. All those minerals, trace minerals...

Seriously, 1/2 teaspoon in a gallon doesn't sound like that much to me, since I would put that much into one batch of compost that was spread over 100 sq. ft. I don't really know how much salt is a lot of salt for the soil. Good luck with the seawater/asparagus plan!

Back in the day I worked summers at a Boy Scout camp. We counselers would pee right by our cabins all the time rather than hike to the latrine, especially in the wee (HA!) hours.

During the summer you could watch the foliage get burnt from the urine. I don't think it was salt causing the burn I think it was the nitrogen levels, maybe ammonia? Heck what do I know?
Anyway the following summer the foliage would be back growing taller than ever.

The moral of the story is not to put your pee on just a couple plants or to dilute it well with water. Dilution helps keep the smell down too. I remember one summer there was a drought and we all agreed to pee in the latrines phew!

I've tried many times to understand the difference between table salt and fertilizer salts, since we use some rather 'salty' amendments like urine, seaweed, eelgrass and chicken manure, but I've given up, and take the word of people here who sound like they know what they're talking about, including yourself - I appreciate it.

Now that I think about it though, is it safe to say that all salts have a parching effect on plant roots if there's too much of them (salts)?

About diluting, I find the foulest smelling urine - stuff that's been forgotten in a closed bucket for days in summer - the smell will go away in hours, if not minutes, once it's exposed to soil bacteria and air.

Doctors and nurses and other germo-phobes (I think I just made that word up) are paranoid about cooties, but studies (beyond my own independent studies) show that kids who are allowed to get the sniffles & eat dirt & go outside without their coat on in 20-degree weather, grow up to have less health problems. So, I plan on having a HEALTHY compost pile AND a healthy garden.

I mean, when using any type of waste, common sense should be used, but urine really is good stuff. It's as urine was made specifically to recycle nutrients back into the food web

You and I must have been reading this at the same time. I was laughing my head off.

I remember back when I first started composting and wondering what all I could put in my compost. I searched the NET and found all kinds of stuff to use not to mention all the different types of composters. I was talking to a nursery guy and he suggested I go to the horse stables that are just down road and use horse manure because it does not have as much unin in the poop as cow manure does. He said horse manure is great because it is not as "hot" as steer manure. It is so funny to me that people say they will not pee in their compost piles and yet they put manure from cows, horses, rabbits, chickens,etc into their pile. The last time I checked we are mamals too. I would not put manure from sick animals into my garden either. How is it that people get so turned upside down when it comes to human urin vs other animals?

Man I gotta say that I laughed and laughed. I just had to read every post. I spent an hour reading and laughing. People, when it comes to someone telling me how qualified the are to speak on a subject I get very suspicious if they try to convince me of their point of view by using extremes or data that does not seem to jive with what is logical. Pleasse remember one thing, on the internet a person can be anything they want to be. They can be a Nobel Prize winner if they want. When people start saying things like they are in the medical field but then resort to exaggeration or fear tactics to bolster their argument then as far as I am concerned, their credibility is immediately suspect.

Pee in your compost if you want and don't pee in your compost if you don't. But dont tell me that I am at risk for getting HIV from a compost pile. If you are in the medical field, and that is a BIG if, you would know that. As a marriage and family therapist I know that. That is like telling me I can get HIV from sitting on a toilet seat.

But still, the last time I checked I was not going to be arrested for putting my pee along with the the pee from horses, chickens, cows, or rabbits into my compost pile. People are animals too.

Great thread people. Just great.

There is a big difference in the manure from herbivores and the manure from carnivores or omnivores. Plant eating mammals have a different digestive system and are highly unlikely to be able to pass parasites that effect people.

Carniovore/omnivore manures have the potential to pass parasites. However, those mammals would have to be infected/hosts in order to pass them. So if you are using the manure from healthy people or healthy animals (like a vaccinated/medicated dog eating commercial dog food) then you are minimizing the risk.

avid hiker, if you are interested in this thread, have you seen the Humanure Handbook? Its available free online. I think you will like it,

I do notice that my neighbor's corn isn't quite as green as mine.

My wife is not exactly enthusiastic about this process, so I told her I'd use organic fertilizer when the ears of corn start growing.

I've encouraged DH to "water" our compost as well and I think I'll get a bucket of sawdust for me to use (good idea). I always wear vinyl gloves when playing in my compost as use sawdust bedding from a horse boarding facility which has both manure and urine in it.

I think I was more at risk when working in a hospital or whenever I'm shopping than when working with compost. I just wash my hands well after any of these activities.

I was working in the compost bin last year, moving a pile from one bin to another when I banged my right hand on the splintery piece of scrap plywood that has been one side of a bin for eight years. Trust me, it's been exposed to compost.

A chunk of wood got jammed through my thumbnail. It was sore but I wanted to finish moving the pile, so I worked until it was completely done. Afterward, because I'm right handed, when I tried to pull that large splinter out of my right thumbnail, my left hand just didn't have the combination of strength and dexterity to do it. My wife was no help either.

I went to the doc-in-the-box the next day and they numbed the thumb and pulled that chunk out of the thumbnail. He said it was the fattest splinter he'd seen jammed in there like that.

There was no infection afterward.

Two weeks ago, I shot a brad through the tip of my left finger. My fault, I hadn't let the air compressor get fully pressurized before trying to nail a bit of laminate flooring. The brad hit the hard surface of that laminate and
bent into a fish hook shape. Through my finger. Didn't actually hurt.

I cut one end of the brad off, and carefully rotated that curved end out of my finger. I kept pressure on it to stop bleeding. Because it was Sunday night and the doctor's offices were closed, I waited until Monday to go in to get some antibiotics from the doctor.

It never got infected, despite the constant exposure to garden soil, compost, sheetrock dirt, etc. And I couldn't remember to keep taking the antibiotics because I just couldn't remember that I had injured my finger. No swelling, no discomfort, no nothing.

My theory is that the bacteria in the compost bin are so numerous and so adapted to the environment, they they easily out-compete with the kinds of bacteria that would infect us.

We don't get infected from eating yogurt or cheese, or fresh bread. (In fact, I think that the application of plain yogurt is a remedy for certain infections.) I'll have to take someone's word for it when there's a report of Legionnaire's disease after working with compost, but it's the only one I've ever heard of.

I do wash my hands religiously when I'm at work, and I try not to touch public surfaces with my bare hands. No doubt that I still get exposed to public germs, but I try to minimize that. But garden germs just don't seem to be a bother.

My mother recently passed due to complications of COPD. While she was in the hospital, she got hospital MRSA. I know of a lady that's probably going to die from MRSA because she can't fight off infections (a quadriplegic). I think the human community environment is far more dangerous than our garden environment, pee or no pee.

Did you mean to add, "not yet" at the end of that sentence?

It's been a great way to get my grandsons interested in the garden and composting. I've been able to talk to them about chemistry, recycling and life cycles. For me it's going to continue, peeing in the pile...not mine, just theirs. The 9 year old asked..."Grandma, does that mean next year I may eat something made out of my own pee?" Spawned a discussion of how things change and benefits of paying attention to what we do...both positive and negative.

I have thought of doing the pee deal, but haven't gone that far yet ( "yet" like you hinted). I've read the benefits of adding urea. But I never did it. Being in a townhouse does not encourage me to go out water the pile. And I'm not gonna bother to save anything like pee in a bucket. I put my kitchen scraps in a bucket, but not much else. I did add horse manure in at one time, and that seemed to have a dramatic effect on my flower garden. But I don't have a truck anymore and so I'm not gonna load the back of my hatch back with horse poop. I don't think I would add pee to anything I thought I'd be consuming (i.e., vegetables). I like to experiment,and if I had more turf to work with, I would conduct a few of my own studies to see if one thing works (or enhances growth) better than another, including the whole pee concept. No humanure though.

I found GardenWeb through a link at journeytoforever.org
http://www.journeytoforever.org/garden_con.html#contgard
The germophobes and urinophobes on this site need to go read the fascinating account of how peasants in the slums of Mexico are successfully fighting hunger by growing their own food with leaf waste and household urine.

The discussion of the peasants in Mexico leaves out a lot of details. They take a 5 gallon bucket, fill 4/5 full with dried leaves, top with 2" soil, drill a hole a few inches from the bottom to release excess water, and use urine to fertilize and compost the leaves, thereby producing a crop plus a whole bucket of compost to use for the 2" topping on several more buckets.

Needs specifics: Is the urine directly applied to the pots, avoiding roots and leaves, or is a diluted solution used? Is urine fertilizer withheld for any period of time before harvest? Are different solutions used for different vegetables (fruit, leaf, root)?

I requested info, and Keith Addison replied with a general "I suggest you try it. Check our site for more information." Well, I DID check the site, and couldn't find the information I needed. That's why I sent correspondence requesting SPECIFIC information. I'd like to feel that I could be reasonably certain to be at least 50% successful.

There are many sources online for more information about using human urine for sustainable living. The biggest obstacle seems to be the "ick" factor. It's something like suggesting that the excess horses in the U.S. be butchered and sold in markets and restaurants. People are horrified . . . yet horses are livestock, they're herbivores, and they are prey animals that were born to be eaten. In the wild, if anything ever got on their back, it would either be mating them or trying to eat them.

There's no logic to resisting using urine or horse flesh efficiently, but it doesn't "SEEM right" to many people.

Any suggestions for more details about the system used in that Mexico project?

Good one. ;)

blood
sweat
nail clippings
hair clippings
ear wax
urine
saliva
boogers

Everything's been pretty much said about how germs that live in our bodies probably can't survive in a compost pile, so I won't repeat it.

Respectfully, I believe that the microbiote that causes legionnaire's disease grows in standing water, most commonly from condensation from A/C units.

The motto in our house is:
"If it's yellow, let it mellow.
If it's brown, flush it down!"

My five and seven year old are still working on flushing ANTYTHING.