|
| My dad has a dump truck and has been hauling pig manure for a landscaper to make "topsoil" or "compost" (don't know what he's selling it as) with. I want to get some mulch or wood chips for my garden, probably could use a whole truckload esp. if use in paths, but I'm worried about contamination.
Do I need to ask my dad to pressure-wash his bed with 10% bleach solution before hauling anything for a veggie garden in his truck now? |
Follow-Up Postings:
|
- Posted by lazygardens PhxAZ%3A Sunset 13 (My Page) on Wed, May 16, 12 at 9:46
| You say "contamination", but with what? What is your specific concern? Disease? Odor? Or just the ewwww factor of pig manure? |
|
| Pigs are biologically very similar to humans and can carry the same pathogens. Since I am just now about 90 days from harvest on my long-season heirloom tomatoes (and 60 days on the "early" ones), I should not be using raw manure on the beds, even if it is cow, horse, chicken. Some sources say pig manure can be used if hot-composted (I'm sure this wasn't, even if it was sitting in a pile and "aging"), other sources say not to use it at all. I'm worried some manure may get mixed in with the wood chips/mulch. Even if he rinsed out his truck with water, would there still be a risk of picking up something (e. coli, etc.) in the mulch? I hope the guy who's buying it to mix in with his other stuff labels it for landscaping use only, not for edible gardening. |
|
| You have fallen prey to the disease paranoia that some try to brand animal manure with. Ninety days is a LOOONG time. Any nutrients in the manure will have long washed into the ground by then. Stop falling for the paranoia being preached and stop worrying. |
|
| Not worried about nutrients - worried about pathogens. USDA NOP regulations state "The U.S. regulations for organic production require that raw animal manure must be composted unless it is applied to land used for a crop not intended for human consumption; or is incorporated into the soil not less than 120 days prior to the harvest of a product whose edible portion has direct contact with soil; or is incorporated into the soil not less than 90 days prior to the harvest of a product whose edible portion does not have direct contact with the soil surface or soil particles. See 7 CFR 205.203 (c)(1) and (2). " U Maine says not to use pig manure: |
Here is a link that might be useful: UMaine
|
- Posted by lazygardens PhxAZ%3A Sunset 13 (My Page) on Wed, May 16, 12 at 16:51
| Comparing the quantity of manure left in a water-rinsed truck with the volume of wood chips he's hauling ... there's not going to be any "manure" worth worrying about. The USDA regulations apply to manure - identifiable quantities of it - being applied to fields as the main fertilizer. It's notable that the most likely source of contamination for the E. coli in spinach was either raccoons or wild boars, not anything the farmers directly did. |
|
| Many people will tell you that their grandparents used animal manures on their gardens with no problem because they lack enough information to make good decisions. The Center for Disease Control believes that food poisoning from contaminated foods is not reported as often as it should be because people often have what is called the "24 hour flu" and that is not even close because that last much longer. Seldom do people suffering signs and symptoms of food poisoning see a doctor, and often doctors do not have samples tested even when they see patients with signs and symptoms of food poisoning because of cost and time. People often recover before it can be proven they do have food poisoning. Many who have a paranois about potential heavy metal contamination have no apparent concerns about manures. There are very good reasons to follow the guidelines that state to not use animal manures in the garden for 90 days before harvest of above ground crops or 120 days before harvest of root crops. Potential disease pathogens can hang around on the material that trunk is made of and could, theoretically, contaminate the mulch and could then get on the hands of anyone handling that mulch and possibly into their system, causing s disease that would be very difficult to track the source of. None of that is as far fetched as some here might think. |
|
- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, May 17, 12 at 11:12
| While kimmsr is technically correct, I'm going with the relative quantity viewpoint. You would be shocked at the microbes that are in typical soil already, that can potentially give you an infection. If you were mulching your spinach and eating it in a couple of weeks, I would be more concerned. Hose out the truck and it'll be fine. No need to sterilize. PS I just saw a bird poop in your garden! LOL |
|
| As a Dad, if my daughter asked me to do this, I would do it. Ask him, see what he says. Having said that, cleaning the box with a simple car wash soap solution would probably do the trick easily and I'd be comfortable with this and then hauling stuff for a garden. Lloyd |
|
| IF I get the flu I know it is those darn birds pooping in my garden. Be very careful of getting the swine flu, it causes you to drive around holding a spinner out of the car window while going - weeeee-we-we-weeeeee.... I have had the 24hr flu more than a few times, at least I did in the past. Now all these current parents or childless adults with their paranoid fear of getting something, anything, from dirt, or heck anything that has not been sterilized is moronic. They go to doctors to get, or have their children, injected with diseases to "protect" them from diseases, but are incredibly ignorant that getting a mild case of most things naturally is the same thing they pay doctors for. I had one flu shot, over thirty years ago, in my life and missed a week of work a week after I got it. I usually work in the garden barefoot, including when I put in animal manure but for some reason, unlike people I grew up with, I do not take any prescription medicine while every day they shovel down a handful. The inmates are running the asylum. |
|
- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, May 17, 12 at 17:45
| I agree with much of your post RpR, but... "They go to doctors to get, or have their children, injected with diseases to "protect" them from diseases, but are incredibly ignorant that getting a mild case of most things naturally is the same thing they pay doctors for." Are you one of those anti-immunization people? Ever had a mild case of diphtheria? Polio? Riiiight. |
|
| I am NOT anti-immunization, I & my children have had immunization. But RpR is right about people running to the doctors for any little thing. I have had Food poison, if you have not, please stop playing Doctor by reading journals. I was in the floor in pain for 20 minutes,& stayed in bed or rest room for two days. I have never had a 24 hour flu or 48 hour flu like this. I traced the FP back to a week old Easter egg, stupid,stupid I know, Man do I KNOW! But I did not have diarrhea, if you want the gross detail then email me. See I can be tactful.:-) |
|
- Posted by blazeaglory 10 SZ22 OC Ca (My Page) on Thu, May 17, 12 at 22:03
| A week old easter egg! Classic! |
|
| I have had shots, but only when necessary, last one in 1998. I do not run to the doctor for a shot that is makes people money based on paranoia. They took out my cousin's gall bladder to fix a pain they found out was caused by kidney stones. The worst case of food poisoning I had, or may have been, was after I went to a well know rib place around here. During the night I threw up, not dry heaves, heavily threw up till I guess I was empty, with the remaining coming out the other end. I was told when I was very young, after my attending my first funeral; you start dying the day you are born, get used to it. |
|
| The onset of signs and symptoms of food poisoing can be anywhere from an hour to 24 hours after being exposed to the pathogen. It depends on how much of the pathogen you consumed and how good your immune system is. The only way a pathogen that would cause food poisoning would develop on a boiled egg is if that egg was not properly stored, unless this "easter egg" was not boiled first. |
|
| Thanks for all the feedback. I have gotten 19 bales of spoiled hay to use as mulch and can probably get more - definitely after the first cutting this year (if it rains unexpectedly). Hauled in my pickup, didn't have to ask dad (or buy mulch). I have had food poisoning (a couple times on vacation in Italy - ugh - as well as from eating in another person's home here in the US, turned out she had BBQed some questionable pork, and other times when I probably didn't even know what it was). I've also had swine flu - not something I would wish to repeat, or be responsible for giving to someone else (though I don't know if the flu virus is transmitted in manure, or how long it lives without a host - I think viruses are more fragile than bacteria). I also believe it doesn't matter how MUCH of a certain pathogen is present, but just that it IS present, in some cases (some bacteria and someone with a compromised immune system). Since I'm growing for market, I just can't take the chance - though I will tell people that I followed the NOP 90/120 day rules in applying manure (in fact, no fresh manure at all, only composted) and let them make their own decisions (based on dr's advice if they have an immune disorder). |
|
- Posted by fairfield8619 8 N La. (My Page) on Sat, May 19, 12 at 18:11
| I would worry more about that person flipping burgers and hacking in the food than pig manure. Rinse it out and go on. |
|
| As a rule the virus pathogens cannot live long outside of the body while those bacterial pathogens can. I have taught classes on Preventing Disease Transmission for years and it is amazing to me how few people know much of anything about disease transmission and how many myths are out there. Apparently for many people their source of knowledge are the innacuurate and misleading Ads for the magic elixars you see on TV. |
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Soil Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.