Patrick, you're such a cynic.

You probably also attach some significance to the fact that Rebag, Lorig08 and Cfancher (who joined a couple of years ago) all posted from the same IP address. I'm sure it's a coincidence. They were probably sitting in an internet cafe or a library, taking turns at one of the computers there or something. It's either that or they're the same person masquerading as several people, not realizing that GW tracks IP addresses.

Call it what it is - SPAM. :^(

Dave

I wonder cfancher was hawking in 2006. I really feel bad tonight how crooked some people are.

I was being polite when I said I raised worms in an $8 Rubbermaid bin ( I should point out that I have stock in Rubbermaid.) The truth is that I've found out that, given a sufficient amount of organic matter, red wigglers survive just fine in my garden year-round---without the $8 bin.

Mostly birdhouses back then. I think it's more the Songbird garden store than any particular product.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cfancher posts

Well, I'm all ears about the $8.00 Rubbermaid bin. Seriously. I know very little about vermicomposting. How do you make the $8.00 Rubbermaid bin and where do you find the worms? If it's not too hard, I might try it. Thanks!

SOUNDS LIKE AN OBVIOUS SALES PITCH TO ME. i'm glad you are advertising a worthy product, but sorry, SPAM IS SPAM-- and we do not need that here!

i'll stick with my simple and cheap rubbermaid bin.. which works great.

redthistle, you might want to check out the vermicomposting forum. I was given my first worm bin as a Christmas present. It was a Rubbermaid footlooker with holes drilled in the top and around the sides. I've since used other containers with holes only drilled in the top and have paid careful attention to moisture levels. I quit vermicomposting when I discovered that red wrigglers survive just fine in my heavily amended garden soil, despite our harsh winters. But it's a fun hobby and children love it.

And you certainly don't need an $89 dollar bin to do it. I've got lots of better things on which to waste my money.

Thanks to these "three" individuals, I know enough about the Songbird Garden business to know where not to spend my money.

See, Spamming does serve a purpose.

Wayne

Wow! I just returned to this forum and can't belive some of the posts I am reading. I was simply sharing my experience about a composting system that I purchased recently called the Worm Factory. I posted a link to the site where I bought it only because I though it might be useful information to other readers. Apparently, I was wrong! The item that I purchased is not a rip-off as some here claim it is. I used a cheap homemade composting bin once as someone suggested, but it did not work for me. Matter of fact it turned out to be a nightmare! Perhaps, I was doing something wrong at the time, I just don't know (definately a novice). So I purchased one of these Worm Factories and have never regreted it. Yes, it did cost me a few bucks (approx. $90), but feel it was worth it. It is well made, easy to set up and should last for years. An instruction manual came with it that was easy to follow. I'm not criticizing anyone who builds their own composting system. All the power to them, if it works! Guess I should have never even brought the subject up! Reba

The problem is advertising here, which is not allowed, period. The wiliness of you posters is kind of amusing given how easy it was to see through your scheme.

Cost is not the issue IMO (assuming this fancy worm bin does what it's supposed to do - buyer beware). There are people willing to pay $90 for an Earth Machine that frustrates the hell out of them, when they could make pallet bins for next to nothing; $90 for a Green Cone digester when they could use a garbage can set atop a laundry basket; $9 for a Rubbermaid tub for a worm bin. Buying fencing to make our big leaf bin was ridiculously expensive. People pay for ease, reassurance, out-of-sight-out-of-mindness. Some people pay hundreds for a flat screen monitor when their old one worked fine. Etcetera. Etcetera.

Maybe we're not giving Reba the benefit of the doubt. After all, couldn't it be a mere coincidence that two people join the very same day, both have husbands who like fishing and both of their very first posts, 11 minutes apart, are to sing the praises of this product, followed by a third person, less than an hour later, whose every post but one so far also sings the praises of that same company?

And couldn't it be even more of a coincidence that they all posted from the same computer in less than an hour? I know the local library here sometimes has a waiting line to use the computers and wouldn't it have been interesting to see Reba, Lori and Clay all standing in the same line thinking about the same product from the same company?

So, Reba and Lori, welcome to the forums! Have you met Clay?

(I see you're posting from a different computer today, Reba. Our library is closed today also.)

Wayne

OMG, tough crowd! My posting about the composting system was not an advertisement. If I purchase an item that I am enthusiastic about I sometimes share information with others. Just because I included a link where I purchased this product from doesn't mean it is advertising and certainly not "spam". But I see your point. It may appear that way to some reading it. Sorry if I offended anyone by my post! I could have just as well posted without the link. But from the looks of this crowd here I would have been criticized and made fun of anyway. To each's own I guess. Happy Mother's Day eveyone...
Reba

You you explain to this computer dummy where the isp address is?

Karen

Oh my goodness! We're a tough crowd! We criticized and made fun! Well, that's what happens when you try to deceive people.

If you look closely at all the posts made by Rebag/Lorig08/Cfancher on this thread (and in the other "The Ultimate Home Composting System" threads in Vermicomposting and the Organic Gardening forums) they are all written in a highly similar style.

Each of those posters writes short, one-paragraph posts. Usually 3-6 sentences long with no paragraph breaks. About every third sentence is ended with an exclamation mark; most of their posts contain at least two exclamation marks.

By contrast, so far in this thread 8-9 other people have posted, by my rough count. Only three of them have used any exclamation marks.

As well, of the six posts by Rebag/Lorig08/Cfancher on this thread so far, all but one repeat the product name: "Worm Factory". Repetition of a product name is a standard advertising technique. It can help in search engine rankings.

Rebag/Lorig08/Cfancher, you've been caught. All "three" of you write in very, very similar styles. Two of your three login names here on GardenWeb were created yesterday. The older identity (Cfrancher) has repeatedly promoted commercial products sold by Songbird Garden. And one of your brand-new logins posted the exact same praise -- and link -- about a commercial product, on three different threads in three different GardenWeb forums.

This isn't strictly speaking spam, because spam is usually defined as unsolicited commercial email. But it is an attempt to deceive and con people. For money.

Personally, I would not consider buying anything from Songbird Garden. Their use of sockpuppets and viral marketing to promote their products is IMO highly unethical and dishonest.

Rebag/lorig08/Cfancher, the evidence is overwhelming. You're one person pretending to be three people -- and you have posted multiple ads for commercial products which you have disguised as personal endorsements.

Songbird Garden is not a company which will ever get one dollar from my pocket. Regardless of the quality or price of your products, your "advertising" smells. Far worse than any "cheap" worm bin I've ever seen.

I hope GardenWeb leaves this thread up, so anyone searching the Internet for information on Songbird Garden reads it. The best way to stop these attempts at deception is to make them backfire on those who try to deceive.

All the best,
-Patrick

p.s. If you follow the link Rebag/Lorig08/Cfancher first posted in this thread, the same writing style of repeated exclamation marks is built right into the company prose: I count nine exclamation marks on the web page linked. Looks to me like this is an in-house sock puppet.

nothing in this forum can claim to be "The Ultimate" until its stamped approved by the resident anarchist

"You you explain to this computer dummy where the isp address is?"

It's the IP address, not the ISP address.

IP=Internet Protocol
ISP=Internet Service Provider.

Toy see the IP address, right click and select "View Source" (IE and Safari) or "View Page Source" (FireFox).

The IP addresses are in comments like this:
<--e--><--nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn-->

The ip address is the group of numbers in the second comment.

It's possible for posts coming from more than one computer to have the same IP address. For example, all of the computers in my house would show the same IP address externally and these would be different from the IP addresses these computers would display to me if I used ipconfig (windows) or ifconfig (Linux). These would report addresses in one of two ranges (10.0.0.n or 192.168.n.n) depending on how I've got them connected. But they would all have the same external IP address.

I just love the Ultimate Home Composting System---(even though only a person with money to burn would buy one)!

Here's what I like about it best! The Worm Factory has the smallest footprint. It takes up 20% less floor space than larger units but there is no restriction on how many trays you can stack. The Worm Factory is capable of holding the largest capacity in the smallest area.

I just love it!! And my husband does, too! Our marriage has never been so exciting since we purchased The Ultimate Home Composting System!

bp - thanks for the explaination of IP vs ISP. Honestly, my posting about the Worm Factory was taken out of context. I was simply sharing with everyone my experience with the composting system I bought and posted the link where I bought it. I don't see anything wrong with doing this, but I am new here. Maybe I shoudn't have included a link? As for these other folks who posted comments, LoriG is a friend of mine and I told her I posted something about the composter on this forum. I had no idea she was going to post a comment and it appears to coincidental. I told her what a mess this caused here! As for this Cfancher. I don't know who this person is. I feel some people here are jumping to the wrong conclusions about my intentions. It certainly was a learning experience for me as a newcomer to the forum. I've been learning a lot from reading some of the posts here. Reba

For heaven's sake it's a worm bin, not internet porn.

Here's a picture of ours, in about January. It's thawed and kicking again now. These wooden lobster crates are useful for many things. I took the bottom boards out and put it on the ground after removing the sod. Note the rope handle; it is hinged to the bottom with two rope loops and Bob's Your Uncle.

{{gwi:259144}}

Paul - great looking worm bin! I'm sure it cost less than what I paid :( However, I am still happy with what I got. I'm sure lobster crates make great worm bins. Not sure how many people can find lobster crates. Surely not in Missouri where I'm from! Reba

Thanks Reba. We got it at the dump. Maybe if I lived in a highrise I'd consider a highrise plastic worm bin.

No, but they sell Rubbermaid (or Sterite) storage containers in Missouri, I bet. Your friend, Lori, ought to try my method before she spends a lot of money unnecessarily. No smell. No mess. No fuss. And it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Oh and you can get worms for free, too, Lori. Ask any person on the vermicomposting forum and I'm sure they could set you up. Red wrigglers are found in horse manure.

I'm usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt when they post a link to something they've found useful. I've posted links to the weed hound numerous times.

The reason people (including me) jumped to the wrong conclusion about this is that there are people who will join and post a link in an attempt to get around advertising bans here, so when people see somebody join and post a link to something the same day they joined, they get suspicious, especially if there are posts on several forums (known as cross posting). Then, when there were several posts from the same IP, it added to suspicions. As I said in my prior post, this doesn't always mean it's the same person or the same PC. It could be two computers at the same location.

Thanks for the explanation.

this highrise hasnt yet been blessed by kimmst has it? bbbk

Reba, GW people don't like to see solicitations in posts, and, with that said, I too sometimes find certain "tones" too sarcastic for my tastes, but "c'est la vie."

If you enjoy composting, really get into improving your soil, or love gardening, or would like to, welcome - and pls do share your interests, knowledge, experience, questions & affinity for these things w/us.

All the Best, Tree

Rebag wrote on on Sun, May 11, 2008 at 19:34 EST:

"Honestly, my posting about the Worm Factory was taken out of context."

No, it was not. Your posts -- you've made multiple posts on this thread, under various identities -- were taken entirely in context.

Three people posting within less than three hours from the same Internet IP. Which means, at the same network address, and in most cases, the same computer.

All three using the same style of writing short paragraphs with exclamatory sentences, which include high praise of the same commercial product. A writing style which is also used on the (linked) web page of the commercial site.

Two of the three posters are brand-new GardenWeb members who happened to join on the same day. The third (Cfancher) who is a member since September of last year, has posted half a dozen times. Almost all of Cfancher's posts praised or promoted Songbird Garden, a commercial site. The same site which was linked in the ad for the commercial product, an ad posted yesterday on three GardenWeb forums.

Nobody here has taken you out of context, Rebag/ Lorig08/ Cfancher. There is no coincidence; there are no wrong conclusions being jumped to here.

If your "friend" Lorig08 just happened to use your computer and just happened to create a new account here to follow up your post on this forum -- within fifteen minutes of your first post on this thread -- where were you, at the time?

Why did "Lori" start her followup post "This is a great idea!"
and end it
"Thanks for the info! Lori"
...in the very same way you end your posts, for example:
"Over time it would surely smell! Reba"

Is this how friends talk with each other on an Internet forum? Friends close enough to use the same computer?

Wouldn't a friend say in person "hey, I just used your computer to join GardenWeb too and I followed up on one of your posts"? My friends sure would. They'd also likely say "Hi Patrick" in their followup. Not pretend to be a stranger who just happened to enthusiastically agree with me and used a highly similar writing style to endorse the same commercial product.

As well, why do four out of the first five posts on this thread read like commercial ad copy, repeatedly mentioning the product name and the business name in nearly every post? Repeating over and over the so-called advantages of the commercial product for sale, conveniently linked at the top?

Annpat is a good friend of mine. We agree on many gardening subjects. But we don't write in the same style -- like Rebag/ Lorig08/ Cfancher does -- and if Annpat happened to post from my computer or I posted from hers, we'd very likely mention it here. We'd certainly know about it.

And even though it is possible Annpat could mention a commercial product here, and link to it from here, and it's also possible I might enthusiastically agree -- we wouldn't write endorsements that sound like ads.

This entire thread strains credibility so much, I find it astonishing anyone can take anything Rebag/ Lorig08/ Cfancher says seriously.

Including the protestations of innocence, and being misunderstood, and inexperience with GardenWeb forums. Rebag/ Lorig08/ Cfancher knew enough to post their ads yesterday in Vermicomposting, Organic Gardening, and Soil, Compost and Mulch.

Last issue: since I drew attention to the writing style of Rebag/ Lorig08/ Cfancher, there's been a bunch of short followups by Rebag on this forum and on Vermicomposting. As if this person has suddenly realized their multiple identities are going to be looked at very closely, and it's time to start appearing like a real community member, here.

Funny how there was plenty of time to sing the praises of Songbird and sing the praises of the Worm Factory (Worm Factory Worm Factory Worm Factory Worm Factory Worm Factory) and protest innocence of wrongdoing, yesterday and this morning. But only when confronted with clear and obvious evidence of deception -- does this person even bother to comment on other threads, here.

This forum is an online community. Not a marketplace for Songbird to try to take commercial advantage by deception.

All the best,
-Patrick

p.s. Paul, you're right this is a discussion about a worm composter and not Internet porn. However, I personally really dislike commercial businesses pretending to be individuals here, and aggressively trying to promote their products under false flags. Especially when they refuse to admit what they've done, when they're caught.

I came to look at this thread just for a hoot. Anything titled "The Ultimate Home Composting System" was obviously going to be touting some product that cost a lot when as we (mostly) all know, composting doesn't need to cost anything.

As for worms, if you make a lasagna bed, just wait a few months and one trowel full will have so many worms in it that it gives you the heebie-jeebies. The "you get what you pay for" line doesn't apply in composting. It is more like you get taken for whatever you are foolish enough to spend. Compost starter is another funny and completely useless product.

Marcia, who makes a LOT of compost and does use exclamation points a lot

Yes, I have also linked to the brand of compost bin I bought, and recommended it, too. But I usually point out that it is expensive and a handy person could build something a lot cheaper, and indeed no bin is necessary for composting. I like it, but have no connection to the company. The thing is, I have been a GW member for several years and post regularly on 2 forums- this one and wintersowing- only. And my posts might also be general soil questions, wintersowing comments, even complaints about the weather. So you see, Reba, I don't appear to be linked to pushing a particular company or product because I am not. I am employed in a totally unrelated field, I just happen to be a home gardener, like most others here.

You have to realize that folks on any particular forum generally know those others who hang out there, or at least recognise the names. Most are courteous to new people, but new folks generally find their way here when looking for information on a particular question or problem, not to promote a company.

bpgreen: Thanks for taking the time to explain IP adress. You just right click the body of the text? I've wondered what all that computer code meant! I still can't tell. When my husband is here, I'll do that and have him point to exactly what I should be looking for. He's generally my computer advisor.

Karen

Karen--If you right click, then view source, you can search for --e-- which is just before the IP address. The IP address is right after that and is a group of four numbers separated by decimals like 12.34.56.78 (each of the numbers can be from 0 to 255).

Worms should be free,
As free as the wind blows
As free as the grass grows
Born free to follow their little worm hearts

Confinement in a worm bin is like raising mink for fur, or testing cheap, glittery cosmetics on lab animals.

Don't be surprised if you find your worm bin upended, and the worms running free.

SPCAworm division

Dave, I liked your haiku better.

Anyone read the testimonials at Songbird Garden?

Wow! The first one is from Lori G! Wow!

And there are a lot of exclamation points! in the testimonials! and Wow! they almost all sound like they were written by the same person! Wow!

Without a doubt it was an advertising scheme, and a transparent one, and Patrick I know how seriously you take community networking. But I consider anybody who promotes composting to be part of my community as compared to, say - well so many others.

What's with the little ad inserted into every post? Never noticed that before. Could it be a virus carried by that Ultimate home composting ad? Now I'm getting paranoid.

I don't like disingenuous liars, Paul, and that's what reba of Songbird Garden is. (Patrick, it's Songbird Garden that you need to expose. There are other, no more reputable, people selling the Worm Factory---you know for $90 dollars more than you can do it yourself---. I was fine until reba tried to make us all feel guilty by making her and her twin siblings---newcomers to the forum---feel so ostracized.

With you, Annpat.

I've found that even in a $90 worm bin, Spam still stinks from a mile away. You can't hide it, no matter how much you deny it. Everyone knows it's there.

By the way, one can get the same thing for $20 less at a lot of other places online if one is so enamored of the item. Why waste 20 bucks? Should I post links? :)

Wayne

Your honor, we've reached a verdict. Rebag/whoever is guilty as charged. This is as low as stopping the PTA meeting to push your company's brand of superduper $2 pencils, all the while pretending to participate in a discussion on how to teach writing in the curriculum. Easy decision: no promotion in the forums. Where's Reba now?

OMG, you all are cracking me up! We are talking about worm poo here! LOL
I was delighted to find worms in parts of my yard, in Dry, HoT, rural NV. Doing my best to make them happy in my new flower beds and garden.
where can I get some tips?
thankx!

The post title even rings like a company sales pitch. Capital letters on all words to catch the eye too!

Give it up Rebag/Lorig08/Cfancher, you've been marked (or is it marketed?).

tj

>OMG, you all are cracking me up! We are talking about worm poo here! LOL

No, Blondenka, Not Worm-poo, we're talking about Spam here. Granted, they both stink to high Heaven under certain circumstances, Worm Poo in anerobic conditions for example, and Songbird Garden's pathetically amateurish try at free advertising here.

Maybe "worm poo" might be another term for for Songbird Garden Spam, though it may be an insult to worms and those who care for them. Worm poo is good, the Three Spamateers posting here is bad. Pathetically bad. (Now is an appropriate time for LOL, Blondenka.)

But the beauty of this forum and a few others that I participate in, (don't even try this on other forums now, Reba or whoever the Songbird Spammer really is) is that members do 99.9 percent of the moderation, seeing through spammers in a heartbeat, spammers who see these communities as an opportnity to exploit for their own gain, rules and guidelines be damned. Spammers who, in their unsophisticated minds, mistakenly see their ever-so cleverly-crafted "unsolicited" testimonials as being just the free ticket to sing the praises of a product their company offers while appearing to be just regular forum members. Spammers who haven't the experience to know that their lack of skills can't help but set off alarm bells in even the most novice of Spam Spotters.

It is almost a game at times, to be the first to expose opportunists. Sometimes, like this round, it's just a simple race because seeing through them is way, way too easy. In this case, it was so blatantly obvious that this was not a serious challenge that the League's Executive Committee has ruled that this contest can not be included in this season's standings.

We need to start screening these spammers better to make sure they at least meet the bare minimum of skills. Especially teams. Who's next? Moe, Larry and Curly extolling organic, non-invasive hammer-induced lobotomies? Please, don't insult the worthy competitors here. (More LOL, Blondenka.)

Sorry madmagic, I know you were first in spotting this Spam but this would be like spotting a three-legged donkey jumping from the stands at the Kentucky Derby and crossing the finish line ahead of the pack. Let's continue the contest when a truly gifted Spammer offers something worthy of your skills and that of the rest of the competitors. I say we all give up points earned for this round and resume training for a real challenge.

League standings will be reported in the next Spam-Spotter newsletter. (More LOL.)

Songbird Gardens, please do not be discouraged by this failure. When you can present a team worthy of professional-level Spam, please do try again.

Wayne
(Un-official scorekeeper, American Spam-Spotters League, Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

Oops, I forgot to end my post with an exclaimation mark!Wayne

Anything titled "The Ultimate Home Composting System" was obviously going to be touting some product that cost a lot

I seriously thought it was going to be about a goat.

Kristin

This thread is hilarious. I'm actually surprised that some people didn't think it was spam! lol

Oh... I used an exclamation point. Let me, then, extoll the virtues of my cheap rubbermaid bins. They have perfectly spaced ventilation holes on all sides! My worms have been content for many years and much happily away at all my kitchen waste, and producing stink-free black gold for my mother's garden! Wow! My mother also said wow!

And they are on sale this week for only $59.99! An amazing price considering everything you get:

* Blue plastic bin!
* 2 matching plastic lids! One can be used as a drainage catch! Wow!
* Perfectly engineered ventilation holes drilled up the sides in an attractive zig-zag pattern!
* Also perfectly engineered drainage holes in the bottom drilled in a somewhat straight line!
* We cast magic spells on all of our cheap plastic bins so that the worms will multiply from one lb to 100 lbs in a mere three months! Wow!

And all of this for $59.99!

;)

And I also got some oceanfront property in Nebraska for sale... :)

But yours doesn't have a handy, high tech plastic spigot conveniently drain the
compost tea. LOL!

ok, i'm ducking and running as i'm saying this, BUT.....i sometimes copy and past when i'm really excited about something. also i sometimes try to remember what i say, HA HA HA but i do really try to remember what i say in the first post, mine have been in 3 different ones, but mine are in rr's. LOL i can say scamming tics me off though and decieving is bad too!!! , but that is what i have done!! just my 1/2 cent :')) LOL

I am beginning a journey into vermicomposting, this is what I found.
http://newfarm.rodaleinstitute.org/features/0804/wormbin/index.shtml
This is what I am going to try.

I got my Rubbermaid container for the low low price of only $4 - on sale at a back to school sale in a college town Wal-Mart.

I know you're all jealous now.

So far I'm doing fine without and products from Songbird Gardens.

What a hoot! The Songbird people could be great for all I know, and I've no problem with people crowing about a wonderful product they've bought. But be honest about it, and don't try to take me for a fool. That's not a lot to ask, is it?

A minor amount of internet sleuthing took me from Songbird Gardens to Fiddle Creek Farms, also sellers of bird-related stuff and worm stuff, and also in Missouri. Naturally, I had to check out the testimonials, and look what I found. Sound familiar?

"Received my Worm Factory Composter about 2 months or so ago and have tripled my production of Euro Nightcrawlers while making lots of rish compost for my flower garden. This is a wonderful product and I would recommend it to anyone. My husband does quite a bit of fishing and has an unlimited supply of bait worms. Because of this he saves money on fishing bait!" - Sheri G., Hawyard, WI

Oh Reba, that wasn't very nice of you, now was it....

And how interesting that Lori G, in her testimonial on the Songbird site, is also from Wisconsin.

Well. That was fun. Now I'm going outside to continue working on some of my lasagna beds. I've had cardboard laid down for a few weeks now, and I've got to start piling stuff on top, before it gets too unpleasantly cold to work outside. I took a peek under the cardboard yesterday. Can you believe it? I had, yes, sit down for this one, folks, I had WORMS there! Lots of worms! They came all by their lonesome, and I didn't pay a penny for a single one of them. Who'd a thunk it?

but the little humming bird that follows the cursor is cute..........lmao

oops, am I bad..........forgot the !

but the little hummingbird that follows the cursor is cute! lmao!!!