Okay. Right now I have a basic composter. It was free. The Earth Machine. Well, I keep adding organic material. I keep turning it. I make sure it is damp. The pile keeps shrinking. Yet, no finished compost!

Hmmm... What am I doing wrong?

I read in a few articles that the bin should be 3' cubed and nicely aerated. The Earth Machine is roughly 3' x 2.5' x 2.5'. There are some air holes.

Maybe I need a bigger bin!

I would like to build a wooden bin. Pallets or pressure treated planks? Floor or no floor? Wooden with wire mesh sides?

My brain is composting with all this info! Help!

By the way, how do you acquire these wooden pallets that I read are so easy to come by?

I like this design. With the floor, it's a stand alone bin that can be added to and taken away without interfering with the other bins. The floor keeps rats out and provided additional aeration,

These bins can easily be made from pallets at a very low cost.

Well, I keep adding organic material. I keep turning it. I make sure it is damp. The pile keeps shrinking. Yet, no finished compost!

I think you'll need to stop adding materials if you want to let it finish. Also, I understand pressure treated wood should not be in contact with the ground generally, so I assume it's not a good choice for a compost bin.

I got pallets for free and wrapped the inside of the bin with chicken wire. If cinder blocks or straw bales or something else were free I'd have used those instead, would have saved the cost of the fencing.

nygardener - The pile doesn't smell, it smells nice and 'earthy'. I am conscious of the mix and keep a stockpile of browns for throughout the seasons.

I have been able to get some pallets. Should I attach the hardware mesh on the inside (technically the bottom side of the pallets) to keep animals out and put a mesh, hinged lid on the top?

I have seen some real elaborate set-ups, but do not want to go entirely overboard right now.

This pallet/mesh bin set-up can also be free standing? Meaning I do not have to secure any 4'x4's into the ground? I think I would use the 4' green fence stakes in the corners to keep it somewhat in place.

Thanks any additional help!

The simpler people make composting the more likely it is they will continue. Make it difficult and it's a chore many will not keep doing. Best to find what suits you and you will be successful.

It is often quoted, probably because it is easy to remember.

It is the Minimum size for good heat retention.

I use a round mesh bin resting on the ground, 4' in diameter and either 24" or 30" high.

Materials may also determine the best width (or depth and width if you have a square bin). If you use a lot of sawdust, then 3' or (3'x3') might be best. If your primary brown is shredded leaves, then 4' (or 4'x4') might be best. If your main brown is large-ish wood chips, then 5' (or 5'x54').

The height does not have to match the other dimensions. The dirt under the pile acts as heat storage. I do think the min height would be about 24". Keep in mind that the pile shrinks a lot.

I also would like a lid on it to keep the tree rats and other critters from stealing the good stuff. You know what I mean?

Also, if I do put a lid on it, I do not want to locate it in a conspicuos place. Maybe lattice around it will help with that?

I have a steel garage/shed where the current composter is now. Would it be safe to locate a pallet made bin next to the garage/shed? I do not want any critters or bugs (i.e. termites)taking up residence in there as I do have wood inside the garage/shed.

robertz6~ You said, "The dirt under the pile acts as heat storage." I have a pallet on the bottom because I thought it would help with aeration. Would it be better if I remove the pallet? This is my first attempt at composting, so any ways to make it easier... ya' know?

So my bin --a 4' diameter mesh bin either 24" or 30" high bin sitting on the ground is easier to turn.

To get the same heat retention in your bin --- add 6" air space +36" to 42" high = 42" to 48". Would you rather turn a 30" pile or a 42 to 48" high pile?

I was able to get a bunch free where I work - the loading dock area accumulates them, and if people didn't take them, I'm not sure what happens. I've seen them at almost any type of manufacturing facility too.

Our pile is staying quite warm in the middle - I don't have a thermometer to use, but I know that it's uncomfortable to leave my hand in there for a long period of time. We are always on the lookout for more "browns" - we have trees in the backyard, but way more lawn (3/4 acre) that generates clippings than we have dry leaves to keep up. So I have some "side piles" of just grass clippings that we're using for mulch in the garden (the piles are turned frequently to speed the drying process and reduce the stink) as well as waiting to add into the compost pile.

My daughter just started horse riding lessons a month or so ago, and the stable said that we can have all the old (i.e. pre-composted) manure we want! So each week I fill 2 trash cans while she's riding, to help add organics (I've got a clay+manure pile going separately from the compost - we plan to use that stuff around the yard in flower beds etc initially as we have bad clay problem almost everywhere, then sprinkle w/compost as needed)

I have a plan in place, but I now have a few final questions.

Does the bin need posts that have to be sunk in the ground? Or, can it be "free standing" on top of the ground or on a cinder block perimeter?

Is Douglas-Fir more rot resistant that pine? Cedar is a bit expensive around here. Doglas-Fir isn't much more than pine. Just curious.

The dimensions are 3.5' Long x 3.5' Deep x 4' High for each bin I am going to build. probably a side by side system, so. 7' long, 3.5' deep, 4' high.

Do I need to put a lid on the bin or can it be open to the elements and other critters?

Thanks.

It can be freestanding. My pallet bins used a few steel posts or tomato stakes at the corners for strength.

>Is Douglas-Fir more rot resistant that pine? Cedar is a bit expensive around here. Doglas-Fir isn't much more than pine. Just curious.

I think so but I'm not sure. I always use free pallets and they are often oak around here, which is pretty nice material. I'm spoiled.

>Do I need to put a lid on the bin or can it be open to the elements and other critters?

You don't have to have a lid. If you put food waste in and it draws raccoons, lions, bears etc. make sure you bury it in the pile. In the rainy season I put a piece of tarp or old tin roofing over the top to reduce leaching out of nutrients. But you don't have to.

Thank for the info.

What is the sentiment around here about using pressure treated lumber for the compost bin? A lot of building plans I have read say to use pressure treated lumber. I am not totally sold, since it is still chemically treated even though they outlawed the arsenic treatment a few years back.

Has anyone here used pressure treated lumber?

The parts I am thinking of using it on (if I find it to be safe) would be the base of the bin.

Thanks.

Some tips:

- first and foremost - keep adding stuff, and don't give up. I think it took me at least a full 2 or 3 months of collecting yard and food waste before I felt any real success.

- If you have an opportunity to fill it all at once, do it. This will let you see what happens when you can ideally just let the pile finish without adding new stuff. It might sound like a bummer to stop adding to the pile while it's finishing, but it's really educational.

- following that, consider getting a second bin. Then you can be filling one bin while the other one is finishing.

- Occasionally turn the whole pile. In an earth machine, this is done most easily by just lifting the whole thing off the ground, setting it aside, mixing up the pile and shoveling it back in. It helps to have a tarp to pile the compost on. (Also, I don't bother with the plastic screws that come with it that you're supposed to use to bolt it to the ground.)

Good luck!

I just wanted to point out that this may not be a viable option for those of us who do not own farm animals, and chop our leaves up and let them decompose naturally on the lawn (their original destination, btw).

I'm fairly new to it, but I've made a batch in a relatively small container already, and it seemed to make ok in about 2 months with one month of curing. I didn't put it on my vegetable garden -- it was used on some bare spots where I planted grass seed (looking fine, btw) -- so I do understand your concerns about pathogens and such, but I don't think it's necessary to stop composting just because you might not get a ton of materials. I would think that the elements would take care of the bacteria over time, so if you allow it to cure long enough before adding it, wouldn't it still be ok for your veggies even if higher temps aren't achieved during the process???

I went outside just now and re-measured the area I want to put my bins. 3.5' deep might be a little too much real estate to be taking up. 2.5' would be better.

Does a compost bin need to be a certain dimension? Or, can you suit it to your needs? Say 2.5' deep x 4' long x 3' high?

Glad I did re-measure!

:-)

Lloyd

My four bins are made with three pallets, louvered front, free-standing and chicken wire inside. I assemble the ingredients so able to load a full bin; gradual filling will not achieve the heating cycle. My lack of a shredder means I chop stuff with the mower. Smaller pieces does speed decomposition. I do use a composting thermometer to monitor and determine need to turn.

I use a tarp to cover only when heavy rain expected. Rainfall acqually aids in supplying oxygen. As for height of a pile/bin, it varies with the diameter and shape of the pile. 8 feet is the average limit or the limitation of turning equipment (farm scale). For an inclosed bin of straight vertical nature, five feet high is the limit. Compression is the force limiting height.

A freshly built pile can reduce by 25% in a couple of days. It is a natural occurence and shows the decomposition has started. Avoid further additions to a working pile; let it finish. A good pile (volume and C:N) with good management can finish in three months.

Check out the Cornell composting site. It was one of my info sources during an agricultural course.

Do find a source of animal (pig, cattle, horse or sheep) manure to obtain a more enrich, diverse finished compost. The compost calculator will offer choice of straight manure or with bedding.

Check out Part 2 of the link about the Indore Process of composting. Manure is a key ingredient determined by observation of plants to different compost mixes.

Good composting,

Dan

"Keep weeds and diseased plants out of the mix since the temperatures reached with cold composting may not be high enough to kill the weed seeds or disease-causing organisms."

I'm also not convinced it is the compost itself that is fertile. I suspect it is the soil that becomes more fertile once it has been amended with the compost.

Hot versus cold has been discussed before.

Lloyd

Thanks for link! Really interesting discussion.

Our desire for hot or cold may be influenced by our demand and/or need. Maintenance of humus is influenced by the soil and the crop demands. Compost is but one means of adding organic matter; green manures, crop rotation, etc.

The fact that a healthy soil with proper proportion of humus does mean healthy plants. The resulting soil organism community is the defence mechanism against disease and pests. Healthy soil and healthy plants is the harmony that enables natural cycles and balances. Imbalances, humus and fertility, increase the threat of disease and pests. Our attempts to replace the natural give advantage to our perceived problems; if given back to Nature, the rebalance occurs in course.

From my own observations, fungals are more prominent in heated compost. Temperature influences populations during stages of decomposition. Humus is in constant cycle of use and replacement. Break the cycle of replacement and the humus disappears. Nature then takes possession.

Nature is our teacher but it appears we are poor students.

Sorry,

Lloyd

If you need enough compost for 5 acres in the fall. that is a need. If your management schedule calls for 25 tons, that is the demand. In order to meet the need or demand you are likely to go with a 'hot' compost. Many compost pile building coincides with material availability. Cold is really a more casual approach. Organic matter does include the living plants/organisms, the dead plants/organisms and those long dead (humus). Compost application is predetermined by it finished state; cured/stable at any time, while unfinished (nitrogen depleting) is best applied before planting or after harvest. Compost nutrient loss is minimized by shallow incorporation which allows organizes immediate access.
A fertile soil does not mean it will grow plants, the necessary humus is what drives the cycles and converts (mineralization, nitification, etc) non-organic minerals to organic state (ions, anions, collodials, compounds, etc).

"The fact that a healthy soil with proper proportion of humus does mean healthy plants. The resulting soil organism community is the defence mechanism against disease and pests. Healthy soil and healthy plants is the harmony that enables natural cycles and balances. Imbalances, humus and fertility, increase the threat of disease and pests. Our attempts to replace the natural give advantage to our perceived problems; if given back to Nature, the rebalance occurs in course."

Healthy, living soil does prduce healthy plants. The nutrient cycles are related to plant exudes as much as the soil organisms; sugars and carbohydrate exude from roots stimulate bacterial and fungal activity. If soil was tested bi-weekly you would find peaks of fertility matching plant needs. After harvest, if all the refuge is removed or temperatures drop, the organisms reduce activity as if in hibernation; awakening when conditions dictate. The soil organisms, particularly in the rhizosphere (immediate area of roots) protect from pests and diseases. Thus the statement about healthy soil leading to healthy plants; or a healthy plant sees little damage from pests and diseases. Likewise, a healthy plant has the essential nutrients to develop its own defences; call it an immune defence. An imbalance (surplus or deficient) fertility/nutrients means that something is not reaching the plant which the plant does require for some growth function. Similarly, it humus is deficient or absent then nutrients are not cycled to the plant and predatory organisms are absent; resulting stress, weakness or lacking invites pests and diseases. Any exhausted soil can be returned to a natural state (meadow or forest) and Nature will reestablish a balance. It is the human attempts to replace Nature that create our problems; too much cultivation, improper cultivation, lack of diversity, lack of recycled organic matter, poor rotation of crops, fallow fields, chemical substitutes for Nature's nutirents, etc, etc.

"From my own observations, fungals are more prominent in heated compost. Temperature influences populations during stages of decomposition. Humus is in constant cycle of use and replacement. Break the cycle of replacement and the humus disappears. Nature then takes possession."

In my own hot conpost I observes more fugal growth at high temperatures. There are microscopic bacteria and heat tolerant species also at work within the cycles (hot to cool) as dictated by there temperature limitation or preferences. These population cycle with the level of decomposition and materials (lignin & cellulose particularly). Humus is the nutrient store that a specific group of organism can process; usually when the less decomposed humus and organic matter is depleted. Such depletion occurs when organic matter is not returned to the cultivated fields; more is removed than returned. The fields become unproductive... or they turn to the chemicals for a false production deficient of the 56-58 total nutrients essential to the entire food chain. If nature reclaim a soil, it will make efforts to return it to production, by Nature's methods.

As our predecessors, we must learn from Nature. The highest percentage of this learning is by observation of the above and below soil. We are indeed poor student if we distract our eye from Nature's teachings.

In fact, most of the 'good' farming practices came from observations. All this occured before we had microscopes and miniscule measuring capacity. Read some of the pre-1800 agriculture literature and appreciate the progress of the early farmer.

Hope this is more understandable Lloyd. I rushed my earlier post, sorry.

Frank (aka west9491) used straw bales, I don't know if he is still around.

Tiffy did/does but I couldn't find any of her pictures. :-(

Lloyd