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diana63_gw

Anyone use white clover for a living vegie garden mulch?

diana63
15 years ago

I have a new very large garden and a new compost pile- the compost pile is not ready for use as mulch and won't work for the lasagna method because it has hot horse manure in it.

So I'm looking at buying something for mulch. I've read a little about using 'new zealand white clover" as a living mulch and wonder if anyone has experience with this and can offer advice or thoughts.

THANKS!

Comments (20)

  • fertilizersalesman
    15 years ago

    In the past I left white clover when I was weeding the garden. Eventually it was all over the place and was effectively a living mulch. If it started getting out of hand I would mow it down a bit and spread the clipping where I thought they would do the most good. I thought it worked really well, but it was pretty labor intensive so I stoped doing it when the garden got bigger.

  • davidandkasie
    15 years ago

    around here clover is the spawn of SATAN! in less than 7 days time it can easily grow 6"+!

  • diana63
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks for your thoughts and warnings! Silly me, I've always enjoyed flirting with Satan's spawn :) :)
    I'm thinking that some kind of living mulch would be cheaper (buying seed) than buying something else already made. It looks like the clover does get around 6 inches, but that would be fine if it was in between rows and under larger plants- broccoli kale corn tomatoes, etc...then it has the added benefit of giving nitrogen.
    Around here, clover has shallow roots, but makes a good mat, so I'd think it would keep other weeds at bay...?
    Anyone have experience or thoughts about other living mulches?

  • davidandkasie
    15 years ago

    i can tell you that clover will suffocate the other weeds and keep them at bay. in your area it may work just fine. in mine it grows and grows, i had some a few weeks ago that was over the front tires on my riding mower! i could not get to the area to cut it for 3-4 weeks due to standing water,, and the clover jsut kept growing.

    luckily for me it has now started to hit the mid 90's for highs, so the clover is stunted and dying off. by the end of the month you won't find clover anywhere here other than small patches under some shade. so it would not do good here in a garden either.

  • elphaba_gw
    15 years ago

    I use green wandering jew as a "place holder". I guess that might qualify as a mulch. It grows fairly rapidly (more rapidly than the purple wandering jew), looks rather nice, keeps weeds from popping up, and is easy to pull up when I finally make up my mind and decide what I really want to plant.

    It is more than 6 inches (maybe 8) and does expand beyond where you've planted it but that is what I like. Seems to do okay if it isn't watered regularly but it loves water too. Seems to work okay in sun or shade.

    It even has tiny pink flowers periodically. I haven't figured out if there is something that encourages flowering. I haven't fertilized it and have it growing in several of my beds until I make up my mind or have time to do the planting that I want.

    I haven't found another plant that would serve the same purpose that I like as well though I have looked. My yard is a little boring with this growing in most of my beds, LOL.

    Let us know if you come up with something you like. Inquiring minds want to know.

  • diana63
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks davidandkasie and elphaba!

    I've seen ads for underseeding/living mulch in Johnny's seed catalog and wonder about the pro's and con's of planting right into the rows and spaces between vegetables.

    Does anyone out here in gardenweb have any other experiences with living mulch?

    I really appreciate your input!

  • alphonse
    15 years ago

    Clover gets mixed reviews from me. I too try to promote volunteers, which aren't too invasive, but too sporadic to comprise a plan.
    Sowing for the purpose has had some success, but only if water and temperature cooperate. As noted above, high and dry tend to stunt it.
    Although not a living mulch in the true sense, buckwheat has proven effective.Sown thickly, it chokes other growth. When desired plant growth would be impeded (say,melons spreading) it's easily uprooted and laid as cover.Seed is very cheap, and can be harvested if allowed to mature.

  • shebear
    15 years ago

    We've used red clover in the community down here in Texas. It seemed to work fine and pretty much died off in the heat so make sure the clover you pick can take your temps. It worked fine for us since we only wanted it for winter coverage.

  • peter_6
    15 years ago

    diana: I once planted tomatoes into a cover crop of white clover. It was a failure because the clover out-competed the tomatoes for nutrients. So now I bury my white clover covers and the soil tilth is marvelous. I also planted white clove in a path alongside my end vegetable bed. It is lush after 3 years; it keeps weeds down -- somewhat -- but it does creep into the vegetable bed. Regards, Peter.

  • diana63
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks for your information. I've bagged the idea of living mulch because of the nutrient competition info and have used what I had of the cut down cover crop- wasn't enough, but then got a good deal on a straw bale from the horse person-neighbor. Put all that over newspaper and it was very cheap.
    Again, I appreciate everyone's input!
    Diana

  • kanejamison
    12 years ago

    We decided to use white clover as a living mulch this year. There were too many pros to not try it. Cons are the clover out competing the primary crop. For the most part, I think I'll be able to pull it back by hand pretty easily since it's just a home garden. I don't know if I'd use it for a larger farm scale living mulch unless I was doing a Fukuoka-style grain production.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Clover as Living Mulch

  • fertilizersalesman
    8 years ago

    Another interesting thing about white clover is that it is fairly tolerant of roundup when it is mixed at the weaker end of the recommended dilution (10 ml/L). If you find yourself inundated with weeds after growing melons or whatever, you can spray an area and burn everything back and be left with nothing but clover. Then of course go back to more natural means of weed control :)

  • glib
    8 years ago

    Mr. Koperek, I just read several pages of your blog, and I think you are doing a wonderful service to the community.

  • ubro
    8 years ago

    erickoperek, I have read the links you provided and they are very interesting, I do a cut flower business for farmer's markets, how well do you think Dutch Clover would do for a peony cut flower field? They are well established and I am looking for a living mulch I can put in between the rows that I can still walk on.

  • erickoperek69
    8 years ago

    TO: ubro

    FROM: eric koperek = erickoperek@gmail.com

    SUBJECT: Dutch White Clover Living Mulch for Peony Cut Flowers

    DATE: PM 5:51 Wednesday 3 February 2016

    TEXT: Neither I nor my family have ever grown peonies for market. I could not even identify a peony plant if my life depended on it. That said, I can provide you some small assistance. Dutch White Clover = Trifolium repens is often used as a cover crop in row middles, alleyways, tramways, farm lanes and other transit applications. Dutch White Clover is a tough, persistent, dense growing legume that blots out weeds and is highly resistant to field traffic. Plant Dutch White Clover anywhere you want good traction and drainage for farm equipment. An established sward of Dutch White Clover will prevent your tractors (or horses) from sinking into the mud. Make sure to buy low growing (6 inch to 8 inch high) 100% pure Dutch White Clover = common lawn clover seed. Do not buy tall growing varieties of White Clover which can reach 10 or even 12 inches high. High growing living mulches compete too strongly with companion cash crops.

    Row middles can be top seeded as desired: Mix clover seed with a large quantity of corn meal or weed seed meal (for even distribution) then apply with a common hopper type lawn spreader. (Do not use a rotary spreader because you want the clover seed to drop only between the rows). Alternatively, plant a field of Dutch Clover then till narrow strips with a rear ended rototiller. Plant cash crops in the tilled strips. I recommend flame weeding within rows. Watch your fields carefully: Zap the weeds the same day you plant then flame again directly the first crop seedling emerges. Flame weeding is an excellent way to grow small-seeded crops like carrots (and many flowers) that are not very competitive and take a long time to germinate and become established. The clover will overwhelm weeds between rows and flaming will kill weeds within rows. Result: 95% weed control under average field conditions (without synthetic herbicides or mechanical cultivation). Note: You do not want to obliterate every weed in your fields. To preserve field biodiversity leave 1 weed spaced every 3 or 4 feet apart = about 5,000 weeds per acre. Weeds provide pollen, nectar, shelter, and alternative hosts for beneficial predator and parasitic insects.

    We often use Dutch White Clover as a living mulch for tall growing cut flowers like Zinnias, Marigolds, and Daisies. Many tall perennial flowers grow well when broadcast or drilled with Dutch White Clover. Some of my relatives plant their pear orchards and vineyards with California poppies and lawn clover. Result: A great sea of flowers and very few insect pests. (Do not overlook the photographic value of poppies and similar flowering plants. Seed with wild abandon as flowers attract both customers and journalists. Your farm will certainly benefit from extra, free advertising).

    One last bit of advice: Remember to irrigate your flower crops. Dutch clover (and all other living mulches) compete with cash crops for light, water, and nutrients. Don't be skimpy. Apply water generously because you are growing 2 crops in the same field at the same time -- cut flowers AND living mulch.

    If Dutch White Clover seed is not available or too expensive, substitute Crimson Clover (Trifolium incarnatum) or Sub Clover (Trifolium subteraneum). Crimson clover grows 12 inches tall (but the red flowers are strikingly beautiful and will make your fields "pop").

    For more information on old-fashioned biological agriculture visit: www.agriculturesolutions.wordpress.com -- or -- www.worldagriculturesolutions.wordpress.com -- or -- send your questions to: Agriculture Solutions, 413 Cedar Drive, Moon Township, Pennsylvania, 15108 USA, -- or -- send an e-mail to: erickoperek@gmail.com





  • ubro
    8 years ago

    Thank you very much, I have found a supplier of low growing white clover seeds. Since peonies are very large perennials I would guess the clover would be good between the rows. I am also establishing a fruit orchard and was already considering some type of wild flower to seed with the clover, california poppies sound wonderful. I am looking forward to trying this in the spring.

  • erickoperek69
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    TO: ubro

    FROM: Eric Koperek = erickoperek@gmail.com

    SUBJECT: Living Mulches for Orchards

    DATE: PM 6:15 Thursday 4 February 2016

    TEXT:

    I recommend multiple species cover crops for both orchards and vineyards. Wide biodiversity is necessary to control insect pests. When I was a child, we sowed our apple orchards with buckwheat, turnips, and hairy vetch = winter vetch. This provided many flowers that supported beneficial predators and parasites. Translation: The good bugs ate the bad bugs.

    Rule: Plant small flowers to encourage beneficial insects. The good bugs have small mouth parts so planting big flowers does not work. Any plant in the Carrot Family = Dill, Fennel, Caraway, Coriander is a good choice. Lacy phacelia, mustard, tansy, feverfew, and clovers also produce abundant pollen and nectar that are easy for beneficial insects to reach.

    I like to include 1 / 16th part = 6.25% by weight of assorted perennial wildflowers in my cover crop mixtures. Annuals also work if they reseed freely = abundantly. Wildflowers encourage large populations of beneficial insects. As an added benefit, wildflowers also attract customers.

    Don't forget to include weeds in your orchard. Weeds provide food, shelter, and alternate hosts for beneficial insects. The idea is to keep a resident population of good bugs waiting for the bad bugs to arrive. Growing fruit trees in weeds can nearly eliminate many insect pests. Mow the orchard once yearly or only when trees are ready for harvest.

    I recommend planting fully dwarf fruit trees. Short trees are much easier to care for and harvest. Note: Do not fertilize dwarf fruit trees. Do not use any soil amendments. Just dig a hole in whatever soil you have and stick the tree in. (Make sure that the graft line is well above the soil surface). Good soil will make dwarf trees grow much taller which is a waste of money. As long as the trees grow 6 to 8 inches yearly, they are getting enough nutrients from the soil. Don't try to help them along or you will be sorry. Over-fertilized trees attract insect pests. Remember to water and mulch your trees. Apply mulch from the trunk to the drip line = the tip of the farthest branch. Use leaves, straw, hay, weeds, wood chips, hedge trimmings, grass clippings, any kind of organic matter will do. Apply mulch not less than 8 inches thick. If you don't have any mulch or if mulch is too expensive, plant mixed cover crops under the trees. Water is more important than fertilizer. As long as you have water, you can grow all the fertilizer you need. (This is why you should include a mixture of legumes in your cover crops).

    Note: If you space your trees widely, then you can plant row or hay crops between the trees. This will provide income while your trees are growing. We like to plant about 40 different species of trees, shrubs, and vines per acre. Broad genetic diversity greatly reduces insect pests and economic risk of crop failures. Don't plant anything you can't sell. Biodiversity does not pay unless every plant produces a cash crop.

    We run chickens in our orchards to control insect pests. Chickens are housed in mobile chicken coops on wheels. Move the coops 200 feet every night so chickens have fresh pasture each morning. Chickens on good pasture will get most of their food from bugs, worms, seeds, and leaves. Pasturing chickens greatly reduces feed costs: Portion only 1 to 2 Tablespoons = approximately 1/2 to 1 scale ounce of rolled grain daily per chicken. Keep moving chicken coops all year long. 30-day rotations (1 day grazing followed by 30 days rest) are best. Pastures need about 1 month to re-grow before they are grazed again. Long rotation periods are also necessary to control chicken parasites.

    Remember: Your best investment is an irrigation system. I would not start any commercial agricultural operation without a reliable water supply. Dwarf fruit trees are expensive. Water is cheap. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish. Water your trees and cover crops.

    I hope this information will help get you off to a good start. For more information on old-fashioned biological agriculture, visit: www.agriculturesolutions.wordpress.com -- or -- www.worldagriculturesolutions.wordpress.com -- or -- send your questions to: Agriculture Solutions, 413 Cedar Drive, Moon Township, Pennsylvania, 15108 USA -- or -- send an e-mail to: erickoperek@gmail.com

    end comment.

  • ubro
    8 years ago

    Thanks that information is very helpful. I already have irrigation for my cut flower production, and we raise heritage chickens.

    Last summer I used geese to weed my peony field and it worked out very well. They never even touched the plants or flowers but they certainly ate many weeds keeping them from going to seed and taking over the flowers.

  • emerogork
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I usually mulch the clippings back into the lawn when I cut the grass but lately, in the fall, I collect the clippings to spread as mulch on the gardens.

    If I had a clover patch that needed mowing and I gathered the clippings for other beds, am I setting myself up for disaster with clover seeds germinating in other soils?