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Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

Posted by californian 10 (My Page) on
Wed, Jun 1, 11 at 20:15

On another thread I mentioned some new high tech composters being developed in Orange County, CA. On page 4 of today's local section of the Orange County Register they have an article about a demonstration project set up outside the Anaheim Convention center. The composters turn 250 pounds of food scraps and paper into 25 pounds of finished compost in only 12 to 15 hours. The finished compost looks like wet coffee grounds and smells like barbecue sauce, and is so rich it would burn your lawn if directly applied. The composters will process 50% of the food waste generated by a million visitors annually to the convention center, and is currently being used on the landscaping in Disneyland.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

"...finished compost ...." . ".....so rich it would burn your lawn ...."

In that case I wouldn't class it as 'finished.'


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

And how much fossil fuel went into doing that?


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

If compost smells of anything other then good rich earth and burns plants in any way it is not finished.
There is simply no way the bacteria that work on waste material can digest that material in less than 24 hours, just won't happen.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

I have this mental image of the Dirty Jobs TV show where he visited a pig farm outside of Vegas. They boiled the leftovers from the casino buffets.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

On a transatlantic flight between NY and Rome, I once sat next to a FAO expert on composting pig manure, who described to me a similar system - insulated, aerated, constantly turned. It can be done.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

No fossil fuel, they use the methane gas generated by the composting process to for all fuel needs, even run electric generators on the methane gas.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

  • Posted by pt03 2b Southern Manitob (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 2, 11 at 18:20

If they generate methane, it isn't being "composted". I suspect it is an anaerobic digestion (AD) unit. This is more common in Europe but there are more and more of these being developed in North America. It's also pretty expensive.

I know I can't "do" finished compost in 12-15 hours. ;-)

Lloyd


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

Aha, a biodigester. Still will not produce compost in 12 to 15 hours since it takes about that long for the anaerobic bacteria to get to work. One of the dairy CAFOs down the road got a grant from the state to build a biodigester to run an experiment to see if this is something worthwhile doing (keeping in mind that some scientific types need to reinvent the wheel every year) and it takes about 5 days for the material to work its way through this continuous digesting system.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

OK, so based upon the responses to this thread looks like the demonstration project set up in front of the Anaheim convention center is a big con game and the reporter who wrote the article in the Orange County Register was either conned or is in cahoots with the researches pulling some kind of scam saying they can produce finished compost in 12 to 15 hours. And the lady who bought some tomato plants from me who actually works for the company running the project and gave me additional supposedly first hand info about it must have been lying to me? Wonder why she would do that as she wasn't going to get any financial gain out of it. Looks like you can't trust anyone anymore. Maybe one of the compost experts on this board should set the reporter straight and demand the article be corrected.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

  • Posted by pt03 2b Southern Manitob (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 3, 11 at 13:42

I suspect the person being interviewed, and the reporter wrote, in the simplest terms he/she could so that average people could understand it. Sometimes you have to dumb things down for the general population to understand (think "air pockets" when flying and trying to explain turbulence). Heck when it comes to compost we often dumb things down for the general population to grasp. How often do we use the correct terminology for the different temperature levels of micro-organisms?

When it comes to AD, I can't recall the official name for the leftover byproducts but it usually isn't "compost" in the technical papers but I can understand using that term to describe it and would hesitate to claim it's a conspiracy or a con game.

Lloyd


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

californian-

I'm with Lloyd

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity/ignorance/incompetence/poor communication.

My apologies for butchering and clarifying the quote.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

Don't get upset, it's just healthy skepticism. :)

The idea is that, whatever it is, if it processes waste into something usable that's better than piling it up in a landfill. But it isn't technically 'finished compost' if it burns plants when applied or has any odor other than an earthy smell. In that state it isn't usable and still needs some curing time.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

Found the article online, californian. Linked below.

Readers will note that the finished compost should be mixed with soil, ratios given.

HTH, and thanks to OP.

Rosie, Sugar Hill, GA

Here is a link that might be useful: Orange County Register article


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

cool stuff.

semantics aside.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

"OK, so based upon the responses to this thread looks like the demonstration project set up in front of the Anaheim convention center is a big con game and the reporter who wrote the article in the Orange County Register was either conned or is in cahoots with the researches pulling some kind of scam saying they can produce finished compost in 12 to 15 hours. And the lady who bought some tomato plants from me who actually works for the company running the project and gave me additional supposedly first hand info about it must have been lying to me? Wonder why she would do that as she wasn't going to get any financial gain out of it. Looks like you can't trust anyone anymore. Maybe one of the compost experts on this board should set the reporter straight and demand the article be corrected. "

Yea I am not sure why some are talking about microbes I am sure this "compost" is dead. Not sure why so many dont understand that this is infact true. Fact is they turn paper/food scraps into a usable fertilizer for plant in 15 hours. That to me is amazing and completly understanble becasue they are prob using the gas to "ultra heat" it.

Some fail to understand that this can also help cut back on petrol based ferts.

They use it at Disney Land? If so, I think that says it all.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

  • Posted by jolj 7b/8a-S.C.,USA (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 3, 11 at 22:36

Maybe finished compost is over stating it.
I think any machine that breaks 250 lbs. of waste down to 25 lbs of a unfinished, but workable/usable product in 24 hours, is a good thing.
Can we a least agree it is better then dumping the 250lbs in the land fill.
If I could break down that much in 3 days I would be using it all Fall, though the Winter into the Spring.
I am sure that It cost way more then a home owner could pay, but that is what THEY said about computers.
Hope this work leads some where!


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

Lets assume that food and paper is mixed, the decomposition happens in 12-15 hours and a combustible gas is produced.

Then I would speculate it is a small gasifier that produces syn (synthetic) gas (CH4, CO, H2) and (smoky smellin') biochar residue. if the raw material has lots of green stuff, then some nitrogen will be left in the char.

A reporter would not know the difference between methane and syn gas, and compost and biochar (and the smell of a smoke house and barbeque sauce!).

I hope someone reports "the rest of the story".

Until then, Californian's tale is OK by me.

Rick


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

When I read the thread title "...15 hours..." I, too, was skeptical. But then I thought of waste water treatment plants that manage to biodegrade sewage in much less time.

But I think the point remains that certain composting processes take much longer than 15 hours, hence the problem of 'burning' plants. Unfinished compost contains acetic, oxalic, butyric and other organic acids, and these acids are what burns plant roots. In composting, these eventually form humic and fulvic acids.

I'll bet it's good stuff, but, yes, semantically, it's not finished compost.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

"It smells like barbaque sauce and if put on you lawn it would burn it" is not compost.
Compost smells like good, rich earth and will not burn any plant when appied to any soil.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

My eyes keep going back to the statement: "so rich it would
burn your lawn if directly applied"

Maybe that is a new definition of "finished" compost, though.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

I think the process sounds awesome, and will be something that will become more prevelant for municipal solid waste processing.

But calling it "compost" or calling something hot - "finished", are semantics problems for us composters.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

I guess the devil is in the (accurate) details, as to how long is the process and what the result is really like, but it sounds a lot like composting in place after having blened & processed the materials to a homogeneous stuff, rather than me having a melon rind or burger bun sitting out in my garden.

If they are using it as mulch but their landscaped areas include large mulched areas not densely planted with small plants or shrubs, then there would be large areas that could benefit from this as weed-barrier and eventual soil-builder and it would not be hurting plants much.

When I have a need to cycle through a compost container more quickly, perhaps to take advantage of a large new influx of compostables, I will do the same thing with partially finished compost by putting it on an open spot away from plants or in a fallow garden bed. Of course I have to pick out the occasional read-able paper item or chunk o' something.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

I'm just glad there are projects such as this so that environmental friendly methods of dealing with tons of usable waste will eventually become common practice and landfills will, in the future, be less toxic and take less space than they now do. Perhaps there is hope for Earth after all.

Whether finished by composters' standards or not it's still a usable product which turns garbage into an Earth-friendly product. We need to look at the big picture.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

Does anyone have the name of the machine they are using?


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

I'm thinking that compost that damages growing plants may not be of much interest to gardeners.


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RE: Finishd compost in 12 to 15 hours

"I'm thinking that compost that damages growing plants may not be of much interest to gardeners."

That is why you would add to somthing (peat/wood chips) then mulch with it.


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