|
| I am trying to identify the type of soil in my front garden, following some descriptions given in various articles on the web. The soil seems sandy to touch (to me) but does not absorb water. When I water, the water just runs off, or sits in puddles if there are depressions. Therefore it is very difficult to get moisture or nutrients to the roots of the annuals (zinnias and peppers) growing there. To get moisture in the bed, I make holes, add water and leave it there. The peonies, which have been there for about 7 years flourish. What kind of soil is this? How can I amend it? Thank you in advance. |
Follow-Up Postings:
|
- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Jul 27, 11 at 17:16
| I am afraid to guess what type of soil you are dealing with up there in Canada. HOwever, there are ways to find out! Couple of ideas for you: 1) In the US there are 'agricultural extension' services supported by the federal government with offices in every county. They are an excellent resource for this kind of thing as they are familiar with local conditions. 2) The aforementioned (in the US) also offer inexpensive soil testing. 3) For a quick estimate of soil type, put a sample into a jar with a lid (fill about 1/3- 1/2), cover with at least an inch of water, shake well and let settle for a day. Then estimate the ratio of sand (at the bottom) to silt (middle) and clay (at top). Report back. |
|
| I won't give a definate answer, but if you can get water to puddle in any depressions, it isn't sand. Clay soil is notorious for staying wet really long, but once it dries, it is very difficult to rewet, because the water just runs across the surface, and collects in low spots, where it sits for a while, until it slowly absorbs. Try this: Take a scoopful of soil, if wet, try to make a sort of "snowball" out of it. If it's dry, soak it down good, then try. If it just crumbles apart, it's sandy and loose. If it makes a good, solid ball that you can toss from one hand to the next, it's clay. If it makes a ball, but can fall apart somewhat easily, it's right in between. The latter is what you want, but before going in depth about how to ammend, we gotta know what you have for sure. Joe |
|
| He's talking about totally hydrophobic conditions. It's not all that uncommon, but it is caused by a number of reasons. I am most familiar with it on sandy soil, as a matter of fact...very sandy soil. Northerner, I suggest a couple of things. One would be to make sure that your garden areas have a layer of mulch on them, such as wood chips, pine bark, pine straw or other. Not too much, but at least a couple of inches. Then, I would get an inexpensive hose-end sprayer and put a little bit of liquid dish soap in the bottle and fill it with water. You'll want to set it so that just a tiny bit of the soap mixes with the water you're spraying. Use that VERY dilute soap solution to water with a few times, and that will break the surface tension that is preventing the water from percolating through the surface. The mulch will help, too. You can experiment with this before you put the mulch down, just to see how well the soap works. Remember, you need very little soap in order to break that surface tension. You'll be well pleased. |
|
| Soils are composed of, basically, three minerals, sand, silt, and clay and they are distinguished by particle size with sand particles being the largest, silt much smaller, and clay the smallest. The type of soil you have is determined by how much of each of those minerals you have as all soils have some of each in various ratios. Your local AgCanada office might have the answers you seek, AgCanada is kind of similar to the USAs Cooperative Extension Service. However, you could also use these simple soil tests to see what you do have, 1) Soil test for organic matter. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains� too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy. |
|
- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, Jul 28, 11 at 11:25
| kimmsr, it's very helpful information, but you could just post it once and post a link to it whenever you wanted to share it with someone. Just a thought. |
|
| "kimmsr, it's very helpful information, but you could just post it once and post a link to it whenever you wanted to share it with someone. Just a thought." While you're at it, fix #5: 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Just a thought. Lloyd |
|
| There are lots of threads about adding compost to garden soil here on the forum, so you could read all about them if you'd like. Simple answer is to add 4" of compost around, but not touching the plants & let the earthworms work it in. Keep a 2-3" layer of mulch (but not around the peonies). When you plant annuals you can add compost to the holes. That might be enough to fix it without removing all the plants & building a new bed. That's an option, but you mentioned peonies (dislike disturbance) & front bed (big project for 1 day & very visible to neighbors), so making it into a new planting bed might be too big of a project. |
|
- Posted by nutsaboutflowers 2b/3a (My Page) on Sat, Jul 30, 11 at 0:16
| All of the suggestions here are great and you should definitely try them. One simple thing you might like to do before anything else.... Are you in a city or town? Does one of your neighbours garden? Ask them what type of soil is in the area and if yours behaves the same way his/hers does. It'll give you an idea whether or not the previous owner "messed" with it. In the area I live in, everyone knows we have crappy clay soil, so your neighbour may be a great help. Good luck with your gardening, and if you don't already have one, start a compost pile. It'll do wonders for your soil =:) |
|
- Posted by joepyeweed 5b IL (My Page) on Sat, Jul 30, 11 at 11:34
| Does Canada have soil maps like we have in the US? In the US most of our soils are mapped.(Except for the older urban areas). The soil maps were in books by county, now they are on the web. |
Here is a link that might be useful: US Web Soil Survey
|
- Posted by northerner_on Z5A ONCanada (My Page) on Wed, Aug 10, 11 at 1:55
| Wow, I had no idea that I had all these wonderful responses to this problem. I usually track my posts by e-mail, but something must be amiss on this site: the only one I received was from Corinne and I came on the site to reply to her. Thanks for all the valuable information, which I believe I have read at some time on the copius threads about this subject. Last fall I did the mulch thing: my son bought a leaf vacuum with a chipper attachment. We chipped leaves for hours and spread it on all the beds, including this one. Nothing seemed to happen to it over winter as I expected, and I was advised (on this site) to remove it once the spring was here and I was going to plant the bed, so that's why I am at square one again. I am following a procedure I found in a book and the first step is to know what kind of soil I have. Most of their 'tests' included the soil's reaction to water, hence my question. I will follow some of the advice given above, maybe I'll start with the soil in the jar with water first. Joepyeweed: I don't know if we have soil maps, but it would not be accurate for me because I live in a suburban development, about 50 years old. The builder is well known for bringing clay in to 'landscape' all his developments, and there is evidence of this here and there. I even fashioned a little pot out of it once!! This bed in particular has been re-built several times, most recently by me about 10 years ago because it was full of cat faeces. I had topsoil delivered and used it all around. The front bed was amended with composted cow manure and we continued planting petunias. The cats continue to be a problem (not mine) and I have recently added lots of coffee grounds to deter them. Perhaps that's why it has this strange consitency. Of course I am looking for the fast way out, and don't know what I will do eventually. I have surgery coming up in a couple of weeks, so I won't be able to do much until late in the fall. I have a composter which does not work, and I have followed the directions for filling it several times. I have come to the conclusion that it does not get enough oxygen, but that is the design selected by our city for our use. Thank you all and I'll be back when I have someting to report. |
|
- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, Aug 11, 11 at 12:20
| Post some closeup pictures of your soil and of the entire bed, and maybe we can help. Wouldn't hurt to start a thread about your compost bin also, maybe we can be of assistance there too. Good luck with the surgery! |
|
- Posted by northerner_on Z5A ONCanada (My Page) on Fri, Sep 23, 11 at 4:36
| My surgery is over and now I am back to the problem of my soil. I did the soil test and to my surprise, it is almost all organic matter, just all floating on the top. Now I must go through all that material again and decide what to do next. Winter is fast-approaching here. Northerner. |
|
- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Fri, Sep 23, 11 at 10:41
| I'm thinking maybe someone put a lot of peat moss in there. That stuff can be pretty hydrophobic. You might want to just add some soil to it. Of course you can't dig it in where you have existing perennials, but perhaps you could mix it with compost and apply in small amounts as a sort of mulch. Over time the worms and freeze/thaw cycles will work it in. Glad your surgery thing turned out OK. |
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Soil Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.