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| I am new to composting. New as in this is my first try. I recycled an old rubbermaid container, 30 gals?, drilled plenty of air holes and filled it with kitchen scraps and a bunch of alfalfa cubes I had left over.
Our temps have been over a 100 and extremely humid. This quickly became horrendously smelly. Got another bin, tranferred half of the steaming container of putrid yuck to it and filled both with as much shredded paper as I could get my hands on for the next week. The smell went away, the neighbors stopped glaring at me. I opened my bin today to add some scraps and Lo and behold it was nothing but crumbly brown, not icky but loamy. Is it possible for this bin to be usable in only 3 weeks? Was it too much alfalfa that causes it to overheat so quickly? |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Too many greens and too much water will cause a smelly mess. Adding the paper (browns) balanced it out and allowed nature to take over. |
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- Posted by tropical_thought San Francisco (My Page) on Sat, Jul 7, 12 at 23:19
| Yes, it can be ready in a short time, but you could let it continue to cure a bit longer in a holding bin. I can harvest some compost every two weeks if I want. I just put the unfinished parts back in a cooking bin. I have multiple bins for this reason. If you let it cure longer it will be more ready. |
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- Posted by rosesinny 7a (nefw2@yahoo.com) on Sat, Jul 7, 12 at 23:27
| It's not compost in only 3 weeks. But the alfalfa has a lot of nitrogen and that's going to stink. I don't know where you are but in NY we're having a heat wave. I put some stuff in the compost bin and when it was pretty wet last week - today I looked at it and it's stinking. So I dumped it on the ground and let it dry out. Having done my composting in sealed bins and in bins with holes, I now only do it in sealed bins. The holes only let in rain and insects. The way I do it now is mix it up and put it into a garbage can. Every week, or every couple of weeks, depending on how busy I am, I dump it out and mix it up. Leaves, shredded paper, garden clippings, food scraps, lobster shells, shrimp shells, anything that went bad in the fridge, etc. As long as you have sufficient browns and as long as you don't let things get too wet, you're in good shape. When I was growing up we had plenty of space and we just made a pile. But in smaller quarters, it's different. I've been doing compost in garbage bins for 15 years or so now and as long as you get the moisture right and make sure you mix it up, it's fine. When you do it outside, you don't need to mix it - nature does it. But when you do it in a closed container, you need to distribute the moisture and the browns and greens. Best of luck! |
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- Posted by JamesMarconnet 7 (My Page) on Sun, Jul 8, 12 at 6:21
| This year I made several batches of compost in a Mantis ComposT-Twin tumbler in about a month a batch. I put the resulting compost into or onto my several flower and vegetable gardens. But instead of helping things grow, it seems to have stunted the growth unless I added a lot of fertilizer. I've been told that compost needs a year or two to "finish". If I must wait that long, I'd only make a batch every year or two in the tumbler. Or I'd need a huge amount of storage space in my yard. Has anyone noticed compost stunting your plant growth instead of helping it? Another thing I noticed was that adding compost mid-season caused all my Tomato plants' new growth to be a bright yellow instead of green. That new growth eventually turned brown and died off instead of ever recovering. That seemed to slow down my Tomato plants a lot. |
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| There are a lot of myths surrounding making compost, especially the time needed. Compost can be made, and be finished, in 14 days. Compost does not need a year, or two, to "cure". The material put out to become compost needs enough Nitrgogen, air, and moisture but not too much of any of those. The Nitrogen feeds the bacteria that digest the high carbon material and they need some moisture as well as air to work. Too much wet excludes air and in the absence of air anaerobic bacteria start to work and they create offensive odors, putrid odors. Too much Nitrogen results in gassing off of the excess and an Ammonia like odor emanating from the compost. Working any organic matter, compost or what, into the soil can result in a short term Nitrogen loss. If compost is to be added to soil with growing plants it should be put down as a mulch, on top of the soil, not as a soil amendment, mixed into the soil. Perhaps this lonk will be of some help. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Composting Tutorial
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| Wow! Thank you for all of your help. I am amazed that I have a usable bin in such a short time! Is there any benefit in letting it cure longer? My plan is to start top dressing a small section of my lawn with it in the hope of eventually improving heavy clay soil. What an amazing process. Toss in garbage and junk mail, get something wonderful. |
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| If your compost is finished, there are no identifiable bits and pieces of what you put in and it smells of good rich earth, there is no benefit to "cure" that compost more. Many that advocate the need for "curing" compost are simply allowing it to finish composting, and everything i have read about "curing" compost is doing just that. |
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| kimmsr wrote: Working any organic matter, compost or what, into the soil can result in a short term Nitrogen loss. If compost is to be added to soil with growing plants it should be put down as a mulch, on top of the soil, not as a soil amendment, mixed into the soil. Following up on this point. I have an endless supply of wood shavings obtained from a school's wood shop program. There is too much for me to use in my compost so I was thinking of adding it around the plants ie the 'raw' shavings come this fall to serve as protective mulch. And then as it slowly breaks down into the soil from above it will benefit the plants in the short and long term. Do I have this right? |
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| What kimmsr wrote is not entirely correct. He should have mentioned the OM would have to be a higher carbon content material that is easily digestible. For example, working in a high N content material (often referred to as a 'green') will not tie up any N from the soil. It may lead to other issues just as bad if not worse but it won't be an N deficiency. Lloyd |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Mon, Jul 9, 12 at 11:04
| rouge: yes you can use wood shavings as mulch. I've done this and also used them for composting and for mixing with grass clippings for a brown/green mulch that will compost into the soil. Just make sure the wood is not treated and that no exotic allelopathic woods are involved. sandy: I would guess that the vast majority of composters are using their compost in the range of about 3 months to a year from starting. The 14-day'ers and the age-for-two-years people are at the ends of the bell curve, so to speak. Not to suggest that they're wackos - any of them might be right after all. ;-] Just trying to give you an idea of the typical, that which works fine for most people. Happy composting! |
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| I started a new bin, the 3rd, and it is not as crazy hot as my first bin was. My 1st bin, which became 2, was filled with mostly alfalfa cubes, coffee grounds and shredded paper. This was not my original plan but I had to get it under control quickly and paper was what I had on hand. I read everything in the link kimmsr provided. It would seem that the overdose of nitrogen and the humidity were the reason it cooked so quickly. Is compost that has been cooked quickly less nutritious for my soil than a slower cooked batch? I live in a new subdivision and have neighbors and an HOA. Previously I had fed my kitchen scraps to the deer or buried them in the yard. I have no leaves and grass clippings stay on the lawn as part of my soil rehab. Any ideas for other brown/carbon sources? I'm assuming that shredded paper isn't the best food source. I have plenty of nitrogen/greens generated by kitchen scraps, unlimited UCG, etc. Thanks again for all of the great answers. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Mon, Jul 9, 12 at 18:00
| - Leaves saved in the fall, stashed in bags wherever you can or piled in a wire fence bin. - Sawdust and wood shavings from a cabinet shop, lumber yard, woodworking friend. Make sure there is NO treated lumber sawdust mixed in. - Wood chips from the power company tree trimming crew. Sometimes they will deliver free. In summer these will heat up briefly but over time will act as a brown. |
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| "Is compost that has been cooked quickly less nutritious for my soil than a slower cooked batch?" Possibly, but not guaranteed. I would not worry too much about it. Being mature is more critical to me. Straw from any of the main grains would be a decent brown. Lloyd |
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| I don't think there would be any significant difference if the compost was "cooked" slowly or quickly, but if a high temp is reached it is less likely that weed seeds or pathogens would survive. |
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| What nutrients are in your finished compost depends on what you start with, which is why a wide variety of material is always suggested. You could, conceivably, make compost from shredded paper and a Nitrogen source but what nutrients would be in that compost? What nutrients were put into the mix? How fast your compost was digested, "cooked", has little to do with which nutrients are there. If wood chips, usually a high carbon material, are placed on top of the soil as a mulch there will be very little soil Nitrogen tied up since the soil bacteria will not get busy and digest them. If those same wood chips are tilled into the soil, put in as a soil amendment, then the soil bacteria will get busy and use all of the available soil Nitrogen to digest them depriving growing plants of this Nitrogen. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Tue, Jul 10, 12 at 10:34
| It's an interesting question. It seems reasonable that the speed of composting wouldn't have much of an effect on the nutrient value of the product, all else being constant. Obviously the salts and metals would be the same, but one wonders about the structure and properties of the organic matter and whether it affects fertility. It might be a good research project: mix up a big batch, split it in half, cook half of it hot and fast in a pile and cook tha other half slowly in smaller piles that don't heat up. Compare the lab test results *and* controlled growth tests. Maybe someone has already done that, somewhere. Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud. I certainly wouldn't worry about it with respect to the typical home compost pile. |
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| kimmsr wrote: If your compost is finished, there are no identifiable bits and pieces of what you put in My main source of browns is wood shavings from a workshop. It appears now in one of my bins that I am close to dark earth except for the wood shavings that are still clearly visible throughout. So my concern is using this compost as a planting medium ie to go in the hole with the wood not being enough decomposed. If so I guess I can use this compost as is above ground spread around the base of the plants as a healthy mulch? What do you think? |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Jul 11, 12 at 10:57
| I think that's a good idea rouge. OTOH it may be close enough that adding just a bit of nitrogen fertilizer to the mix would make your plants just as happy. But I've used plenty of half done compost as well as straight wood shavings as mulch. |
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| Talked it over with my chemist husband who isn't at all interested in compost mind you and his opinion was that high heat in an open environment will gas off more of the ammonia/nitrogen. However, if levels were not balanced decomposition would slow. So I guess the answer is that hot or not it will balance itself and end up the same. |
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| Hubs is a pretty smart guy. I've heard there are actually people out there not interested in 'post but never expected to actually meet one (sort of). ;-) In the end, the N factor in a high heat compost product may be somewhat lower, but compost is much more than the nitrogen within it. Lloyd |
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| If your compost pile smells like an ammonia pile there is something wrong that needs correction. Those of us that have composted for many years know that when our compost smells that way we have too much Nitrogen in the mix and need to balance that with more high carbon material. We also know that if the compost pile smells putrid it is too wet and we need to add dry material, remix to help the excess moisture excape, something to lower the moisture level. High heat may cause some Nitrogen loss although that heat is the result of adequate amounts of N that the bacteria that are digesting the material use to power that work. If the Carbon to Nitrogen ratio of your compost pile gets around 15 to 1 you will get that ammonia odor, because there is too much N in the mix. If the ratio in the mix is in the 30:1 range there will be no ammonia odor and, all else being correct, the compost will be digested nicely and fairly quickly. |
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| Never had a compost pile that was not ready after 6 months. Some of them have never been turned. |
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| Still having an issue with enough carbon materials. Would adding some cocoa mulch work? Wood mulch? If so, would I need more or less than the shredded paper I've been using? My thought is to throw in mulch to balance the nitrogen items but the mulch being larger is it necessary to add more because it will break down so slowly, less available? I have no issue with screening the mulch back out and reusing for the next batch. I would still add shredded paper but I don't seem to have enough of that either. |
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- Posted by tropical_thought San Francisco (My Page) on Wed, Jul 18, 12 at 16:08
| I buy bags of sheared wood. The compost will be better and faster if you wrap the kitchen scraps in a matrix of browns. If the scraps sit there on top without any matrix around them they turn into a mulch, but quality compost. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Jul 18, 12 at 17:12
| Sandy, you're right about needing more wood if it's in bigger chunks. As long as you're willing to screen out those extra chunks, it should work fine. Someone around here once said the way to make compost is "observe and adjust". Good advice. |
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| Tropicalthought- not sure what you mean by wrapping the kitchen scraps? I would be using the wood chips with the intention that they would be left once the kitchen scraps have degraded andd the wood would be sifted out and go into the next batch. My plan is wood chips on the bottom, scraps and paper shreds in the middle, wood chips on top. Of course they will get mixed in as the compost is turned. The problem is I have a lot of scraps and UCG but no trees for leaves and limited junk mail. Basically I'm looking for a cost effective way to get browns. Toxcrusdr- would the wood chunks for smoking meat be too hard? I have a few bags that molded in my garage. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, Jul 19, 12 at 10:52
| That's probably hickory and it will break down more slowly than pine bedding chips, but it will eventually. Certainly a good use for them since they're already starting the breakdown party without you. :-D I think what TT meant, if I may interpret, is to mix the kitchen scraps well with the wood chips so they're in good contact, and that you can also use browns as a cover to keep down odors and absorb escaping nitrogen. It sounds like your plan is to do exactly that. |
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- Posted by VickyMatthews none (My Page) on Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 5:04
| Compost is ready to use if it has a crumbly texture and a rich, earthy smell... |
Here is a link that might be useful: Soil Testing Adelaide
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 10:27
| Vicky, I have seen two of your posts linking to this business, and it appears you are posting for advertising purposes, which is prohibited. |
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| alot of nitrogen rich items will cause it to heat up i know that for sure as i started bins with very little greens and lots of browns and it's been months already it's composting but takes time. all my greens go to my worms. if you just pile greens into a bucket you will notice it heats up significantly alone thus the heat from the pile. you obviously don't want too much greens it will make the pile smell and mushy same with too much water as well. the water will drain off though or should at least. as for when it it ready. simply stick your hand in it and pull w.e. is out. if it's crumbly like soil and smells like soil and is rich brown/black it's ready if you still see noticeable things in it then it isn't ready. you can sift it or remove the noticeable items in and compost those again. finished compost should look like soil and smell good you will know it is unfinished or not unfinished compost still looks like a mess or things you put in it. it is possible to get compost in 3 weeks but usually that takes more work and composting is something many people don't want to work for just sit and leave it and wait. you should also not have any noticeable items on the outside edges as well you should of been turning the pile inwards if only the middle is composted while the outside isn't then it's not done. |
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| Just wanted to add a comment about the sawdust mentioned. As pointed out do NOT use 'treated' lumber. The one thing that many people also forget is NEVER use plywood/particleboard etc either. In other words NOTHING that humans haven't 'altered' other than sawing it. In the US it is still legal to use formaldahyde in the manufacture of plywood. I don't even try to remember what gunk ends up in particle board etc. Re the tomatoes going nuts after you added compost midway thru the season. You have probably given them too much of a 'hit' too late in the season with the 'easily available' nutrients in the compost. That caused a 'spurt' which couldn't be sustained.... As a rule I don't 'feed' any of my veges midway thru a season for exactly that reason. |
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- Posted by Cincinnati none (My Page) on Sat, Oct 6, 12 at 23:40
| I'm late with this reply to entry by JamesMarconnet 7 (My Page) on Sun, Jul 8, 12 at 6:21 I too have a ComposT-Twin. Although their advertisements (like those of other mfgrs) says you can make compost in 14 days. It's Hooey! For me, a batch takes at least 6-10 weeks. Just because it's brown and crumbly doesn't mean it's ready. If I can still recognize the source of a high percentage of pieces, it's not ready. I used to put the compost in a pile for another several months before use. There is a difference between what comes out of the bin after 2 weeks, six weeks, and several months. I finally was able to get ahead of my needs and "stock pile" enough compost that it could "finish" before I put it into the square foot garden. Without testing, I believed the aged compost was better than that fresh out of the composter. In the mean time, I have acquired three or four 39 gallon Rubbermaid trash cans. I put the compost into those bins, thereby keeping seed contamination to a minimum. It doesn't dry out, and rain is not leaching out anything. I screen it out of those bins into another bin, and use it from here. The screenings are dumped back into the composter. Following this protocol, I get in five or six batches per year. With regard to your tomato plants going yellow, I had the same problem in my earthboxes. I added a couple of tablespoons of bloodmeal (12-0-0) as a top dressing. Over the next week, everything went green. Obviously the plants were starved for nutrition. One plant is very lush green, and my concern now is that I over-added Nitrogen. Time will tell. One nice thing about bloodmeal is it takes a lot to burn a plant. Nitrogen is consumed in the composting process. I don't know what you're composting, but wood, sticks, and sawdust consume a great deal of nitrogen. If it's not completed, when you apply it to your plants, it will get that Nitrogen from the soil, robbing that Nitrogen from the plants. |
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