Lloyd

I would also point out that the "90 days" and "120 days" guidelines are for people selling produce, not for people in their home gardens. This is not to say that they aren't good guidelines to follow anyway, but at the end of the day, what you do in your home garden, for your own consumption, is your own business, and you need to assess your own comfort level for the risk.

Remember, too, that guidelines like that need to be broad enough to cover all scenarios -- any type of manure, any age, any weather conditions. The reality is that different manures, under different conditions, break down at different rates. Even in the case where there is a pathogen present (and big scary pathogens are not always present, not even in manure), in "some" or maybe even "most" cases, the pathogen risk will be gone well before that 90 or 120 days, because those numbers were chosen to cover "all" cases.

Also...while all manure has E. coli in it, only a very few and not very common strains of E. coli are "scary" ones. Plain old E. coli is everywhere, and while you certainly shouldn't eat it for breakfast, the big scary stories you may have heard are not due to the "plain old" strains. Washing your produce well, and cooking it, is another step that you can take if you feel less than certain about pathogens in your garden. I don't know about your garden, but in mine, I can assure you that the birds and the local rabbits have added their own additional manure much more recently than 120 days ago, so washing is key.

The thing about mass-produced and mass-consumed produce is that you can't bet on anyone in the chain being smart, or paying attention. In a huge farming operation, there is no individual farmer lovingly inspecting every tomato, because there's just too much, and they're just too busy. You also can't count on the average consumer washing things well before eating them. Factors like this are what require stringent guidelines for mass-produced crops, because "OK, everyone, just don't do anything dumb" isn't going to cut it under those conditions. A well-informed individual, in their home garden, controlling every step in the chain, is in a much better position to "just not do anything dumb."

Frankly, I wish there was more discussion on this forum about the practical application of manures. I'm still working on what I learned from my great-great Aunt & Uncle when I was 8 years old. While they had one of the most amazing gardens I've ever seen, I'd love to hear some additional input from someone who was born in the 20th century rather than the 19th.

No matter what you decide to do this year, I think you can be assured that your garden soil will be much improved next year.

Always wash vegetables anyway, because even healthy soil is full of millions of microbes. Most of them are harmless, just doing what they do, but it's good not to eat dirt regardless. :-]

Happy gardening.

Some crops are highly tolerant of "hot" manure and it was often used for them and they do very well with it. Turnips, for example.

My compost bin's contents aren't fully composted yet, but I've ordered worms and will place them in the bin so that I was have fertilizer that's more nutrient rich for my plants.

Why then is it unnecessary to take simple precautions that can prevent your family from getting food poisoning?

All in all, it's easier and greener to use one's own manure.

I would grant you that CAFO manure is probably not quite identical, but I'm having a hard time believing cow poop from a pasture is free of human pathogens.

OK, if you can point to a study comparing colony counts of e coli and/or other pathogens in pastured vs. CAFO cow poop, I will gladly read it.

Otherwise, I am not going to advise anyone to grow vegetables in manure of any kind until it's sufficiently aged.

Conventional and organic agriculture both use manure as a part of regular farm soil fertilization programs. Certified organic farmers, however, must maintain a farm plan detailing the methods used to build soil fertility, including the application of manure, as mandated by the Organic Foods Production Act (OFPA) of 1990 and the National Organic Program (NOP) rule of December 2000. According to the latter, raw animal manure must be composted if it is to be applied to land used for a crop intended for human consumption, unless it is applied to the land at least 120 days prior to harvest if the edible part crops come in contact with soil, and at least 90 days prior to harvest of edible parts that do not come into contact with soil. OFPA further recommends a longer period if soil or other conditions warrant. No other agricultural regulation in the United States imposes such strict control on the use of manure."

And is manure from a barn and pasture with 10 cows considered "CAFO manure"?

Lloyd

Let's say you took fresh cow manure right out of the stall, tilled it into the ground, and the next day you direct-seeded turnips. Maybe 90 days later you pull some turnips, cook and eat them. Is an e.coli infection more likely from that than going to a public restroom? No. If there is the slightest concern then don't eat it raw.

What is a lot more relevant than far-fetched contamination concerns is the real issue of which crops grow poorly on fresh manure.

Re turnips, I made the exact same statement about planting and harvesting about halfway up this thread.

I do think there's a reasonable medium between complete lack of caution and not using it at all. Can we at least agree on that?

How about this: it isn't unnecessary to avoid ingesting large doses of pathogens. Happily, avoiding that is easy, as easy as using animal manure for fertilizer in the garden, for example.

PS I wonder what how they justify thier house pets who spread ecoli onto thier furniture when after taking a dump jump onto thier bed or sofa or carpet?

Guidelines are often written to err on the side of safety for a reason. Your POV is like telling pilots they can descend below minimums because there is a safety factor built in and it's okay to encroach on those margins.

Having said that, I've often had a sandwich while working around the farm and not washed my hands, but I don't advocate others do it.

Lloyd