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kentstar_gw

Test results back and a couple questions

kentstar
13 years ago

I got my compost pile tested to ensure the pH was adequate before applying in the fall, and I also got my rose/clematis bed and hosta bed tested.

The report came back last night saying that my compost pile was fine on the pH (6.6) but it's potassium levels were excessive!

I wonder if that comes from the oak leaves or horse manure? I don't add much table scraps. Most of what it contains is horse manure, shredded oak leaves, UCGs, straw, pine needles, and a little grass clippings.

The rose bed and hosta bed came back with the pH level at 7.2, which I don't consider bad at all, and which they consider a little high. Hmmm...

But those two beds were low on potassium!

***Most importantly, can I apply the compost over the beds anyways in fall (knowing that the compost is excessive in potassium) sort of top dress and that would be my potash that is lacking in the two beds?

Also, when should I apply the soil acidifier? In fall to work its way down over winter, or in the spring? I have on hand Espoma's Soil Acidifier.

Thankyou all you soil experts! :)

Cathy

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Comments (14)

  • User
    13 years ago

    Spread it on!

    Looking at the results like a lab tech, they barely nudge over the line into high and a different test run might be below the line. Unless you are WAY low or high on something, most plants will do just fine without the fix.

  • ericwi
    13 years ago

    Is your native soil high in clay content? Much of Ohio has high clay soil.

  • kentstar
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Actually, when I got my rose bed tested in June, they said it was 36% sand, 54% silt, and 10% clay. Classified as a silt loam.
    Actually, Portage county, Ohio, where I am located, is called Geeburg silt loam. So, the actual clay content isn't high.

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    13 years ago

    I would hope that compost would be on the high side of most nutrients as it is a CONCENTRATION of decaying things. For example: A well packed bag of leaves would compost down to likely an inch or two of compost. All the nutrients are now concentrated. This is good if we hope to enrich the soil of garden beds.

  • kentstar
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Good point wayne! I originally just wanted a make sure that the pH of the compost was ok, because of the horse manure used. I got the horse manure from someone I work with, and you never know if they used lime over winter on the pile of horse manure. I never thought that the compost would be so high in potash!

  • eaglesgarden
    13 years ago

    I don't see why you are concerned with using the compost. When you apply fertilizer is it not high in the N-P-K numbers? Of course it is, which is why it is used as a soil amendment!

    Secondly, your compost has high levels of K, and your roses are low in K. Adding the compost seems like the perfect elixir.

    And I wouldn't worry about the "high" P values. They are not dangerously high (see the note: no adjustment necessary), whereas the K levels of the compost have a different comment (excessive - see comments).

    Add it and add it as thickly as you can with the amount of compost you have and don't worry about it! Your garden will thank you for it! ;^) If you are going to add anything else to the plants, make sure there are no P components in it. If you add a nitrogen fertilizer, use blood meal and do not use any bone meal.

  • kentstar
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Nitrogen this late in the season here is not a good thing. In spring, that's another story.
    Excessive potash can burn plant leaves and tender roots so I was concerned about the plants that are still actively growing for now. I will, however, apply the compost late fall when I'm not so worried about burning the leaves off things :)

    Fertilizer is NOT a soil amendment. They are two separate things. Soil amendments are meant to improve drainage, structure, and such. Whereas fertilizers supply the temporary nutrients that may be lacking in the soil.
    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but they are NOT the same thing lol.

  • Kimmsr
    13 years ago

    In the fall, for most gardeners, plants are preparing to go dormant for the winter so adding a source of soluble Nitrogen that could stimulate new growth that will not have time to harden before winter sets in is not a good idea. However, adding compost would be because the soil is, and will be, warm enough for the soil bacteria to work and they will start working on that compost and start to convert the nutrients in that compost into nutrients the plants can use next spring when growth resumes.
    Did the lab provide any information about getting the Potash levels up and balancing the Ca and Mg levels? As one of the articles in the current issue of Organic Gardening magazine says having nutrients in balance is more important than the actual amounts.

  • gargwarb
    13 years ago

    I would probably put on a layer about 2 inches thick. The greenwaste component can be a pretty significant contributor to salinity, primarily in the form of soluble potassium. The manure can also be a significant source of sodium and/or boron depending on the horse's diet. It should work well but don't go too crazy. With a silt and clay content of around 60%, leaching will happen relatively slowly, especially in regards to boron.

    As far as where the potassium is coming from: Both the manure and green waste components are likely contributing to some extent. But the greenwaste (as alluded to above) is a blockbuster source of potassium. Also, when it says "excessive" for potassium, that's just a label that the computer program spits out based on the level measured. It's thinking of that sample as a mineral soil, not a compost. Apples and oranges.

    -Fertilizer is NOT a soil amendment.....Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but they are NOT the same thing lol.

    Fertilizers are soil amendments as are gypsum, sulfur, lime, compost, etc.

    -Soil amendments are meant to improve drainage, structure, and such.

    Those are typically "organic" amendments like compost, shavings, bark, peat, etc. There are also inorganic materials that have a similar function like calcined clay and lassenite.

    -....balancing the Ca and Mg levels? As one of the articles in the current issue of Organic Gardening magazine says having nutrients in balance is more important than the actual amounts.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Ca:Mg ratios of 10 1/2 and 11 1/2 in the 'Hostas' and 'Roses' samples respectively will be okee dokee. ;)

    By the way, I have to raise an eyebrow at the organic content of 3.7% in your compost. By dry weight I would be shocked if it was anything lower than 40% (and that would be really low). The only thing I can think of is that they might be using what's called a Walkley-Black or other "titration / acid digestion" method to determine organic content like you would on a relatively low organic mineral soil. Those methods typically don't break down the larger organic "chunks" completely and, consequently, they wouldn't show as part of the organic content. But even then 3.7 would be really low. I think something went hay wire on them with that number.

  • kentstar
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    gargwarb, I found it strange too about the 3.7% organic matter in the compost. What the hay?! My compost is ALL from organic components! Hmmm... lol Oh well, you soil analysis is important, but not every lab is going to be dead on with their form of analysis. At least I know that the compost is all organic! Horse manure, leaves, straw, ucg's, grass clippings, fruit rinds, egg shells, etc. Last I knew, these are all organic lol! :)

  • gargwarb
    13 years ago

    but not every lab is going to be dead on with their form of analysis.
    I would go so far as to say that every lab sends out bad numbers from time to time, and not simply due to the choice of analytical method. (And many don't have a choice. They just have a "one-size-fits-all" list of analyses that they'll run.) A lab is not a "holy place". It's still just people and their machines and sometimes things just don't go the way they should.

    Anyway, if the proper method for a compost was used and everything went as planned, your compost would still come back with only a percentage being organic matter. As organic material decomposes, it goes from organic to mineral. The older it is, the more mineralized it becomes. Another thing that can pull the organic percentage down when using manures from animals that are grazzing (don't know if these were, just throwing it out there) is the fact that they'll eat a little dirt along with the plants and that gets included too. Dirt can also get into the pile while turning or moving it. Dirt is very heavy compared to the organic stuff and a very small volume can make a big difference in dry weight. A typical organic percentage for something like you've described, if well composted and carefully handled to avoid scooping up too much dirt during the composting process, would probably be somewhere in the 70% range by dry weight.

  • kentstar
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Well, it has been composting since last fall so that's a while. I never knew that it went from organic to mineral. lol Total newbie learns another new peice of info today lol! I also never thought of the horses eating some soil with the greens, duh lolol! Thanks for the info!

  • Kimmsr
    13 years ago

    In some 50 years of gardening I have never seen vegetative waste, compost, turn into the mineral component of soil. I have seen the vegetative waste get digested so completely that only the minerals are left, and I have seen compost to which garden soil has been added have more mineral in the finished compost then was originally added, but not vegetative waste turn into mineral soil.

  • gargwarb
    13 years ago

    Kimmsr, buddy, you make me tired. You're misunderstanding both the process and the terms.
    Do a few google searches. Or start with something like this:
    Carbon mineralization from organic wastes at different composting stages during their incubation with soil
    Or start with nitrogen and work your way through it.
    Nitrogen Mineralization Study: Biosolids, Manures, Composts