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| So, I was reading this weekend about organic garden soil products that are not actually organic.
What I read said to check the ingredients list and for the OMRI logo on the soils. The stuff I've been buying at Lowe's for the last year doesn't even have an ingredients list. The three things I've been buying are all labeled organic. They appear to be a generic line cause they are lots cheaper than the stuff made by company names I recognize. I've been buying top soil (about $1.30 / 40lbs), composted cow manure (about $1.30 / 40lbs), and peat moss (3 cubic feet / I pay $4.80 which is 50% off when they have torn bags). I was wondering if anyone on here knows anything about these products. I've really been making a big effort the last several months to build up our garden with organic, non-gmo stuff. But, I'm wondering if I'm getting duped with there particular products. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Regardless of whether it's organic, I'd stop using the peat moss altogether for a number of reasons; environmental degradation and questionable garden benefit being the biggest. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Article by Ken Druse
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| I got some straw for mulching some tender perennials, and will have some left afterward. Does straw make a decent carbon source? In other words, if you had to choose a carbon source: fall leaves/ VS / Straw. Which is more desirable? |
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| I'm sorry, I am sleepy, I will start my own thread. |
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| Coal and iron ore are organic materials, so you need to better define what you mean by "organic". If I went to a garden center, anywhere, and found something for the garden labeled "organic" and there was no list on the package of what was in that product, and especially if there was no OMRI label, I would stay away from tht product. This "organic gardening" market has become even more a "Let the Buyer Beware" today then ever before and even the OMRI label is not to be trusted. |
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| Coal and iron ore are organic materials, so you need to better define what you mean by "organic". If I went to a garden center, anywhere, and found something for the garden labeled "organic" and there was no list on the package of what was in that product, and especially if there was no OMRI label, I would stay away from tht product. This "organic gardening" market has become even more a "Let the Buyer Beware" today then ever before and even the OMRI label is not to be trusted. |
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| Coal and iron ore are organic materials, so you need to better define what you mean by "organic". If I went to a garden center, anywhere, and found something for the garden labeled "organic" and there was no list on the package of what was in that product, and especially if there was no OMRI label, I would stay away from tht product. This "organic gardening" market has become even more a "Let the Buyer Beware" today then ever before and even the OMRI label is not to be trusted. |
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| Advice so nice, it's worth saying thrice. |
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| In order for food to be sold labeled "organic," it has to be Certified USDA Organic, which means it was grown following published federal law. If you are growing organic corn, and you want to put down cow manure in the fall, the manure has to come from cows that are being cared for under USDA Organic law. However, it may be that the word "Organic" can be used to describe non-food products that are not sold in retail food markets, legally. |
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- Posted by TheMasterGardener1 5B (My Page) on Mon, Oct 8, 12 at 11:12
| I agree about the peat, no need to use it. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Tue, Oct 9, 12 at 11:09
| gibbsgirl, perhaps a clarification is in order. There are two meanings for 'organic' here - the first being the no chemicals, non-gmo, etc. that you are thinking of - we'll call that Organic. The other refers to 'organic matter', as in 'compost'. Organic matter is, generally, plant matter or manure that's been turned into compost. It may or may not be Organic in the chemical additive sense. Peat moss would almost certainly be Organic since it comes right out of the ground in undeveloped areas. But is not particularly sustainable since it's shipped long distances, and some argue that is not sustainably harvested. Bags of compost that you find at the store are made regionally out of whatever organic matter is available to the people who made it and put it into a bag with a name on it. Very unlikely you will ever be able to know exactly what went into it. |
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- Posted by fabaceae_native z6 NM (My Page) on Tue, Oct 9, 12 at 12:35
| I've seen some of those products, especially the composted cow manure. It's called "-- organics" here and is also pretty cheap. I have no doubt that it comes from the dairy and beef CAFO's that rely on bovine growth hormone and antibiotics to keep their animals alive on the unhealthful diet of (GMO) feed corn. So, those chemicals, plus GMO's from the corn could be in the manure as well. You'll have to find some alternatives if you want your garden to be truly "organic". That said, it's often better to take advantage of local resources even if they are "not as organic" over imported stuff that is fully certified organic. For instance, instead of buying certified organic guano, I use the guano from my own pigeons even though I feed them a diet of conventionally grown grains and legumes (which no doubt contains GM corn and soybeans). I'm sure you could get your hands on some good manure from animals that are not dependent on chemical inputs. |
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- Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on Tue, Oct 9, 12 at 14:42
| I think we are splitting hairs. Unless it contains chemcial additives like fertilizers or soil moisture crystals, most soil products (potting soils, composts, etc.) ARE considered 'organic', as they are derived from naturally occurring materials. You will not see these types of products with an OMRI listing as it just doesn't apply. By definition, compost of any kind is considered to be organic, regardless of what went into it originally. As tox has stated, there is a difference in organic/naturally derived materials and 'certified' or OMRI listed products. How stringently you adhere to a fully 'organic' gardening program depends on your personal philosophy. Unless I was desirous of achieving a "certified organic" standard I wouldn't think twice about using whatever soil products were available provided they did not include those additives previously mentioned. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Oct 10, 12 at 12:02
| I tend to agree with you gardengal. Based on my knowledge (in the obvious absence of actual data), I don't have any reason to think GMO feed would have any effect on plants grown in the manure. But I'm not strictly organic, but more towards integrated management with minimal use of chemicals. I figure if someone is uncomfortable with CAFO manure then far be it from me to judge them. Too bad that "Organic" was chosen as the term for chemical- and additive-free - such confusion. I wonder what would happen if I stood up in a crowded theater and shouted "Sewage sludge compost is organic!" Haha. |
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| Thanks for the replies. It would be awesome if I could get everything organic (the no chemical no gmo etc organic) but I guess that's not necessarily what I've been buying. I've been replacing all our chemical stuff with non-chemical stuff for pests and cleaning etc for many months. So, I'll just take progress on the organic front where I can get it. I wish I didn't need to buy soil at all. But we have a lot of erosion and our dirt is almost all on top of concrete riddled backfill. Plus, the house was a meth lab before we bought it, complete with burn pits, etc. The neighbors even told me the garage blew up once. So, we've bought the field next to us, so I can plant some trees there. But, everything else is going in the big raised beds we've been slowly building. I'm focusing on perennial food plants for now. And, I'm still more comfortable buying the organic stuff from Lowe's slowly to fill the beds, even if it isn't the type of organic I hope it is. I still feel like it will be better for the plants to grow in and my family to eat, than what may or may not be in the soil here from the previous yahoos that cooked meth. Thanks toxcrusadr and gardengal for taking the time to help me sort it out. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, Oct 11, 12 at 18:17
| Good deal. Your last post reminded me of the term I was looking for - diminishing returns, bang for your buck, low hanging fruit. I think you are on the right track with your approach. |
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