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| My Garden PH was just tested and it is 8.0. I want to plant Onions and Cabbage for the Fall but what do I do to reduce the PH? I do not have compost ready just yet. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Is it a plot of native soil, or what? It's hard to imagine how any soil east of the rain line got so high. |
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| Did you have that soil test done by Clemson Coperative Extension Service or a test kit from a garden center? Test kits from garden centers I have found to be not very reliable. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Oct 3, 12 at 11:40
| Tell us more about the texture of the soil, has anything been added to it over the previous few years, etc. I thought cabbages and other cole crops were fairly happy in alkaline soil, but 8.0 is pretty high. Sounds like someone has been liming. |
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| My first thought as well, kimm. |
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- Posted by foodeefish z8SC (My Page) on Wed, Oct 3, 12 at 14:44
| I added NO lime. The test results from Clemson is as follows: Phosphorus-153 The soil was from a garden center and I added a little Chicken Manure and that was it. Could the Soil or Chicken Compost be that high in PH? |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Oct 3, 12 at 14:48
| Manure can sometimes be high pH due to the use of lime in barns, etc. It usually seems to crop up here with horse and cow manure from farms, where they're spreading hydrated lime (even more alkaline than the ground limestone most people buy in the stores as 'lime'), to control odors. So either the chicken manure or the bagged soil could have had lime in it. If so, and your local soil is not naturally at that pH, it should correct itself by next spring, I would think. |
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| Could the Soil or Chicken Compost be that high in PH? Oh sure. The "soil" is a big question mark so that's a possibility. Composted chicken manure often has a pH greater than 8 and I even see it up close to 9 from time to time. You could adjust the pH downward by incorporating soil sulfur. I would start with about 1 1/2 lbs. per 100 sq. ft. and till it in to a depth of at least 6 inches. That should give you a nice downward push. The amount that it changes will depend on how much change will come from the decomposition of organic material and the buffering capacity of the blend. (I notice that they didn't mention whether or not lime is present, which is a possibility and I couldn't take that into account with the sulfur rate I gave). I would run with that for a year and check it again next year. By the way, you won't need any phosphorous or potassium for a long time. Based on the numbers you have there, it looks like it's got quite a bit of chicken compost, which is pretty hot. I would run a couple of thorough irrigations through it to knock the salts down a bit. |
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| Poultry manure can have a fairly high pH since many poultry feeds contain ground limestone, but that does not explain Calcium. Could the "garden soil" have had lime added to make a balanced pH? To ;ower your soils pH now you will need to add sulfur and the people at Clemson should be able to tell you how much. |
Here is a link that might be useful: About poultry manure
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 10:32
| Outsmarted again...I did not know chicken feed had limestone in it. kimmsr, why would that not explain the high soluble calcium too? |
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- Posted by TheMasterGardener1 5B (My Page) on Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 10:45
| Mulching with leaf mold should lower your ph of your soil. I would not worry too much about it. I bet if you planted in that soil now plants would grow just fine. |
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| Commercial poultry feed will have limestone or crushed sea shells (Calcium), etc. mixed in as grit for the poultry so they can grind up the feed, or the feeder needs to supplement with some grit. The amount of Calcium in the poultry manure probably would not be enough to raise the soil pH that high without some other source of Ca. unless an extremely large amount of manure was added. If the studies done by Dr. Abigail Maynard at the UCONN Ag. Research Station at New Haven, Conn. are reliable then leaf mold will not have a significant affect on soil pH any more then Oak leaves and pine needles did in that many year study. Adding lots of organic matter to soil can help buffer the soils pH. |
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| Calcium in the poultry manure probably would not be enough to raise the soil pH that high without some other source of Ca. Oh buddy, do we have to go over why calcium doesn't raise pH again? From this thread: The term 'pH' is actually a mathematical statement. 'p' means "find the anti-log of" and 'H' stands for hydrogen. Now, it's not just any hydrogen and it's not a free radical. It's what's called hydronium or basically a water molecule with a hydrogen atom piggy backed to it. Lime in the soil causes a whole slew of reactions to accomplish this but here are some of the high lights: Here's one where we see lime reacting with water to increase (OH-). You'll notice that the lime simply disassociates and it's the carbonate (CO3) that does the reacting, leaving free calcium behind. Calcium does not do the reacting. Something like sodium bicarbonate or potassium carbonate would have a similar on the pH. In this one, one unit of lime reacts with two hydroniums (2H+) to turn them into water and carbon dioxide, thereby decreasing the (H+) in solutions. You'll notice that the lime simply disassociates and it's the carbonate (CO3) that does the reacting, leaving free calcium behind. It's the carbonate that reacts with (2H+) to form CO2 and H2O. Now, we have lime reacting with (H+) to create bicarbnoate (HCO3-) and decrease the hydronium in the solution. You'll notice that the lime simply disassociates and it's the carbonate that does the reacting, leaving free calcium behind. After that reaction, you can then have the bicarbonate (HCO3-) going back to react with more (2H+), creating more water and decreasing the (H+) in the solution further. You'll notice that calcium isn't even in the neighborhood for this reaction. And so on.... |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Fri, Oct 5, 12 at 12:37
| OTOH, that sentence would be entirely correct if the first word (calcium) was replaced with 'limestone', which is what kimmsr originally said the additive was. Maybe he just hasn't had his coffee yet. :-] |
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| Lime is Calcium Carbonate, or for most non scientists Calcium. Unless you are very anal about it most people are satisfied that it is the Calcium Carbonate that can raise a soils pH. |
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| Thanks for the shout-out to my anus, Kimm but that's not the point. I see lots of terms misused and usually I just shrug and say "meh" to myself. However this one is more problematic than most in a "real world" sense. Due to the soils around here, what I run into fairly regularly is people who really need to add some gypsum but won't because they don't want the calcium to raise their already high pH. I can easily imagine the opposite issue in areas where soils are typically acid where someone would apply gypsum to raise their pH. I think it's an important distinction to make because it's a little piece of misinformation that can and does cost people time, money and effort. I wonder how many of those folks read that calcium raises your pH on Garden Web. If it's just as easy to say the right term as it is to say the wrong term,why would you intentionally use the wrong term, which can end up costing people? |
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- Posted by gardengrower3 (My Page) on Mon, Oct 8, 12 at 11:35
| I would try using Sulfur. Here's what I used when I needed to lower my soil ph. It's a little more expensive, but it worked like a charm! |
Here is a link that might be useful: Fast Acting sulfur
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| Thusly I find old plaster to be a great additive for eastern soils: Free. Contains gypsum and lime. Can't go wrong. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Oct 10, 12 at 12:04
| They put unpainted drywall waste into our city compost product. Soils are neutral here but very clayey, and the gypsum is just the thing. |
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| While Drywall, Sheet Rock, Plaster Board does contain gypsum it also contains binders (fiberglass) and adhesives that gardeners should be concerned about putting in their soil. Manufacturers of these products strongly suggest their products not be used in gardens. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Drywall ingrediants
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